I was expecting the combat to feel more engaged and interactive, something similar to Shadow of Mordor, where you can see the enemies have more animations and it all feels more organic. In the E3 Witcher demo all I got was the impresion that Geralt was wailing on bags of meat, animations weren't fluid, they were very suddenly interrupted (and I get that's more towards being more responsive) but it looks weird and unnatural in a gritty and realistic approach to a low fantasy setting. Ideally, you'd want smoother animations and enemies that react alot more towards your actions in combat, such as the signs (enemies panicking while being set on fire, wincing or cringing while seeing one of their friends being dismembered - Sleeping Dogs did that when you used a move that broke someones arm or leg) and just overall make it feel more believable and alive, instead of me just feeling like I'm always fighting different types of blood filled punching bags of different sizes and appearances. Still, all that seemed out of place in the Witcher demo were the animations being rather sudden and I suppose it's just work in progress but Shadow of Mordor seems to be the closest thing to the Wild Hunt's combat that we might see for a while.
I don't mean to sound like a dick, nor do I want to say anything bad about Shadow of Mordor, because it looks quite interesting. However, I cannot see how the animations and how it looks when slicing up orcs in this video can in any way be called better than what we have seen from TW3 so far.
Other people also complained about the animations being too choppy and not very fluid. While that may be because they want to increase responsiveness, they look rather odd and it doesn't feel very immersive when you're in a believable interpratation on a low fantasy CRPG like The Witcher. What you can see in that video is, the orcs reacting to your decisions and the combat by fleeing and such. What I mean is, make it more believable, make enemies and NPCs react if there is a fight going on and to Geralt's signs, like objects getting slung around by an Aard shockwave or some of the grass and trees getting a bit burnt or caught on fire if using Igni, make it more dynamic and interactible and improve the animations.
You could even see in the griffin fight that when Geralt shot it down with a crossbow, it plunged towards the ground almost immediately and when being hit by the griffin with his wings right in the face he took no damage or had any reaction, although that might have been because of the dodges having invincibility frames and that would make it pretty awful, the combat feels more like something along the lines of Devil May Cry rather than the free flow combat they said they were inspired by in the Batman games. Still, it looks solid regardless but they should really improve the hitboxes and collision and some of the animation and transition between them at the very least, the dismemberment and gore is also a very nice touch but it seems rather overused so I'm not sure about that.
Still, at the end of the day that's just my opinion and we've only seen a small portion of the combat skills and it's still early in development so I guess we'll see how it turns out when new footage emerges and they develop it further. I only wanted to provide some feedback, what they do with it is up to them.
Combat has always been a rather lackluster part so I hope they get it right this time, without then need for 50 combat rebalance mods.
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We all agree that the animation and the overall fluidity should be adjusted and worked on, but Shadow of Mordor is based off free flow combat like batman.
I doubt that Witcher's fans would appreciate a similar change in the game system and, after all, orcs in SOM are really easy to kill in one blow. It looks too easy and too scripted.
I think that if CD Projekt manages to dramatically improve the animations, a proper AI should be enough to make the fights and the pace excellent.
Remember that the footage seen at E3 was played on easy difficulty settings and that there are several camera options to choose from.
If you look at the previous trailers, you will notice that a closer camera dishes out a more immersive sensation, just like you are into the fight.
For what concerns Aard/Igni effects on the environment, I think that it would be a good idea, but it's not something that changes the experience that much.
If I'm not wrong, in the VGX trailer the zone Aard attack crushes a window and makes some books shatter in the air: in a closed environment this effect is much more effective and striking.
I doubt that Witcher's fans would appreciate a similar change in the game system and, after all, orcs in SOM are really easy to kill in one blow. It looks too easy and too scripted.
I think that if CD Projekt manages to dramatically improve the animations, a proper AI should be enough to make the fights and the pace excellent.
Remember that the footage seen at E3 was played on easy difficulty settings and that there are several camera options to choose from.
If you look at the previous trailers, you will notice that a closer camera dishes out a more immersive sensation, just like you are into the fight.
For what concerns Aard/Igni effects on the environment, I think that it would be a good idea, but it's not something that changes the experience that much.
If I'm not wrong, in the VGX trailer the zone Aard attack crushes a window and makes some books shatter in the air: in a closed environment this effect is much more effective and striking.
Totally agree, animations definitely need to be worked on, like you said in the griffin fight he gets hit full on and does not fall back and that is severely imersion breaking imo, ("Remember this ? "No strongman or mountain of meat can parry the strike of a dracolizard's tail or the blow of a griffin's claw), transitions need to be balanced too, personally I never got why they strive so much to get the one click one animation thing, its incredibly hard to make transitions look smooth that way.
CDPR has a smal mocap studion in the basement of their Warsaw HQ, so this gives me hope that they will add a few animations(maybe inspired in kendo or other fencing styles from around the world) and make others look smoother( yes I mean the damn megaman dash)
Yeah, I guess there's always room for improvement, gotta say though that the B-roll clip from the swamps when he fights the Drowners is smooth as butts.
The only thing that worries me is the rumor I heard that the speed of the combat in the demonstration at E3 was at almost twice the speed.
I choose to think that this is just a stupid rumor for now, since it was for the most part ignored by almost everyone, and slowing down the combat from the very impressive, good looking, lore-accurate and responsive combat we were shown would be shooting yourself in the foot!
The only thing that worries me is the rumor I heard that the speed of the combat in the demonstration at E3 was at almost twice the speed.
I choose to think that this is just a stupid rumor for now, since it was for the most part ignored by almost everyone, and slowing down the combat from the very impressive, good looking, lore-accurate and responsive combat we were shown would be shooting yourself in the foot!
I did check out on Shadows of Mordor. To be honest, that is NOT the game i want to play. Perhaps when it's on dirt sale i'll pick it up. It looks really dull to me as it's ALL about killing Orcs. I want a Lord of the Rings game like Skyrim open-world, where you can travel to Rivendell, Gondor, etc. and meet the fellowship of the Ring with Witcher 3 graphics.. But i guess that game will never come.
I wouldn't mind if some of the animations were a bit slower and heavier feeling. Maybe the long distance dodge, heavy strikes, etc. You get a better flow to combos when the frames for attacks are varied. Look at a Streetfighter or Tekken vid, and of course TW2 did this nicely as well.
Just watched the swamp and microsoft demos again and noticed something, if you pay attention you'll see that whe geralt spins around his own axis (for gods sake CDPR give us a better animation for that, it looks terrible specially because he always has his sword lowered) he almost every time ends up with his back to the enemy, looks goofy as hell
You just read my mind
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Yeah, I'm not seeing it either. In fact, when hes just slashing away at the Orcs I think it looks worst. The only time it looks nicer is when he's using freeflow counters. I agree that w3 could use some tightening but a free flow style counter sytem is not a good direction imo.
A MAJOR ISSUE with the combat that I saw is that Geralt clips trough enemy wings. There were two instances where the wings hit geralt, but nothing happened because only the claws have hitboxes. PLEASE FIX THIS, it's very important if there are many types of winged enemies , the damage from the wing hit shouldn't be the same as the damage from the claw hit obviously, but there should be a reaction from Geralt on the hit
http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee428/mikeee111/1403302545297_zpsa052d6e7.gif
edit: looking at the video again I'm not sure if it's the wings not connecting or the games uses invincibility frames , IE geralt cannot be hit while he is in side stepping or dodging animation even if the attack connects . i-frames weren't in TW2 , but it was in some games like Dark Souls. It obviously doesn't look good as you can see in the griffin fight so I would rather not have them
http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee428/mikeee111/1403302545297_zpsa052d6e7.gif
edit: looking at the video again I'm not sure if it's the wings not connecting or the games uses invincibility frames , IE geralt cannot be hit while he is in side stepping or dodging animation even if the attack connects . i-frames weren't in TW2 , but it was in some games like Dark Souls. It obviously doesn't look good as you can see in the griffin fight so I would rather not have them
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I don't know. It seems that the wing strike misses there...
I agree with the fact that invincibility frames shouldn't be implemented, but these are low priority issues. I think that the main features that should be polished and fixed are the fluidity of dodging animation, as well as the transitions from an animation to another. In particular some sword slashes seem to teleport Geralt in front of the enemy, with too little frames and without a proper knockback effect. All the wing hit story is secondary.
I agree with the fact that invincibility frames shouldn't be implemented, but these are low priority issues. I think that the main features that should be polished and fixed are the fluidity of dodging animation, as well as the transitions from an animation to another. In particular some sword slashes seem to teleport Geralt in front of the enemy, with too little frames and without a proper knockback effect. All the wing hit story is secondary.
How the hell is it secondary, first gameplay presentation we got after all this time and two attacks of the monster just went right trough Geralt. I don't know how many winged typed enemies there are,but there are at least 5 , so it would be bad if all those fights you're gonna have are full of clipping.Wings need to have hitboxes as well and i-frames shouldn't be there
The dodging animation is all there, but it's too fast, because the idea is that Geralt moves a lot faster than a human being. If you watch the fight videos but at 0.25 or 0.5 speed on youtube, you see they make sense.
The dodging animation is all there, but it's too fast, because the idea is that Geralt moves a lot faster than a human being. If you watch the fight videos but at 0.25 or 0.5 speed on youtube, you see they make sense.
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Well, depends on the human. There is a non-witcher bounty hunter that could give him a run for his money, in the books. Probably. Maybe. Anyway, he's pretty quick.
One of the cool things about gritty fantasy like Witcher is there are so few absolutes in the setting. Anyone can screw up, or get surprised, or be outclassed from out of the blue.
It makes their triumph mean something, when they are so mortal.
The number one thing I'm hoping for with the combat, is that they don't take anything away from the early-game experience by making you have to unlock abilities that Geralt should already have access to like: riposte, parry from all directions, hit multiple enemies with sword strikes and deflect arrows.
Staying on topic, would like a really heavy sword that isn't quick, there was one in TW2 but can't remember the name. I know Geralt goes for speed, but sometimes it's nice to play him slightly differently just for a change of pace.
Geralt should at the very least be knocked over here, but I think thats due to the fact that CDPR has yet to add a knockdown animation
Could be true, Marcin did say that they were still adding animations while E3 was in full effect. So yeah, my gut-feeling tells me that the little bits we have seen is nothing compared to what's in store for us in Feb!!
Well said. Only advanced techniques should be learned. Basic stuff should be granted from the beginning.
I just hope they get rid of that ridiculous roll you had to use constantly in W2 (unless FCR of course)...
W2 should have been called Witcher 2: Combat Roll Enhanced Edition.
W2 should have been called Witcher 2: Combat Roll Enhanced Edition.
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