Combat in The Witcher 3

[Percival_Dickenbutts]

I just hope they get rid of that ridiculous roll you had to use constantly in W2 (unless FCR of course)...

W2 should have been called Witcher 2: Combat Roll Enhanced Edition.

The thing is, that it was entirely possible to play through the entire game without resorting to the "roll roll roll roll attack roll roll roll attack" tactic. The problem is that the game forced you to play that way for the first hours of the game by making you have to unlock abilities that SHOULD have been available from the beginning (parry, riposte, deflect, whirl and arguably dagger-throwing) Because of this, most people ended up just using the roll strategy for the entire game, because by the time they had all the abilities that add depth to the combat system, they had already gotten used to the "cheesing-it strategy" as I like to call it.

I have to say though that I cannot put the blame on the players for this problem, this is entirely on the developers. (TW2 is still one of my favourite games of all time! And CDPR my favourite developer!)

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

The thing is, that it was entirely possible to play through the entire game without resorting to the "roll roll roll roll attack roll roll roll attack" tactic. The problem is that the game forced you to play that way for the first hours of the game by making you have to unlock abilities that SHOULD have been available from the beginning (parry, riposte, deflect, whirl and arguably dagger-throwing) Because of this, most people ended up just using the roll strategy for the entire game, because by the time they had all the abilities that add depth to the combat system, they had already gotten used to the "cheesing-it strategy" as I like to call it.

I have to say though that I cannot put the blame on the players for this problem, this is entirely on the developers. (TW2 is still one of my favourite games of all time! And CDPR my favourite developer!)

I think its more than just getting used to what you start with honestly.

Yes its entirely possible to win the game without the roll or accomplish even more, but most often than not, problems with games come because of what they encourage you to do, not just whats prohibited.

In TW2 the roll is so incredibly useful and superior, that any tactic or strategy or style of gameplay that doesn't include it is just self-added difficulty, and games are challenges made to be beaten and learned, so its not really fun to be in charge of your own difficulty most of the times, its artificial.

 

[Percival_Dickenbutts]

I totally agree, that's why I call the rolling around constantly the "cheesing-it strategy" because it's incredibly effective even though it's really boring and nonsensical.
Let's just say I'm not impressed by people who beat the game on the hardest difficulty by only using that strategy, although it is absolutely their right to do so if they wish. Personally I am actually one of those people who prefer to modify the difficulty for myself, when it comes to combat I just prefer the feeling of doing parries and ripostes with minimum dodging, but I also actually refrain from upgrading my weapons sometimes if I feel it becomes too easy. I also usually play on normal, getting two-shot by most enemies is part of the reason people tend to use the roll so much.

My problem is that everybody has to use that strategy during the first few hours of the game because of some unfortunate design decisions, and I also see a lot of people who assume that this is the only way to play the game. TW2 got a lot of misguided negative criticism directed towards it from people who missed out on the depth the combat system CAN have.

 

[thislsmadness]

I totally agree, that's why I call the rolling around constantly the "cheesing-it strategy" because it's incredibly effective even though it's really boring and nonsensical.
Let's just say I'm not impressed by people who beat the game on the hardest difficulty by only using that strategy, although it is absolutely their right to do so if they wish. Personally I am actually one of those people who prefer to modify the difficulty for myself, when it comes to combat I just prefer the feeling of doing parries and ripostes with minimum dodging, but I also actually refrain from upgrading my weapons sometimes if I feel it becomes too easy. I also usually play on normal, getting two-shot by most enemies is part of the reason people tend to use the roll so much.

My problem is that everybody has to use that strategy during the first few hours of the game because of some unfortunate design decisions, and I also see a lot of people who assume that this is the only way to play the game. TW2 got a lot of misguided negative criticism directed towards it from people who missed out on the depth the combat system CAN have.

I'm generally the same way, I'll often "nerf" my character to preserve challenge and keep things fun. As long as something is fun, I don't necessarily care if its the most efficient.

That said, on hard W2 def had parts that forced you to play cheap even beyond the early game. I think the biggest issue is that the combat didn't handle large groups well and yet the game is constantly throwing large groups at you, and on hard Yrden+Axii wear off extremely quick.

 

[JohnnyPhate]

FCR fixed a lot of this stuff, but it made W2 very easy even on dark mode.

edit: btw thay said that thay got rid of back roll animation in one E3 interview. Its replaced with simple jump or quick step back which actually makes sense - rolling to dodge attack is retarded thing to do even for superhuman fast witcher... (can be seen in "Johnny" demo)

 

[BroccoliSouP]

Just one thing. Maybe someone said it already. More enemy types with different abilities should make combat better by itself.

 

[Pedrolago]

Just one thing. Maybe someone said it already. More enemy types with different abilities should make combat better by itself.

Enemies with more fluid combos and parries would also be a great boost to combat

 

[ferryman10]

Its replaced with simple jump or quick step back which actually makes sense.

Yes, that seems a lot better. Kind of reminds me of the dodge in TW1, but it wasn't as responsive back then. It would also be nice if you could side-step (or do a pirouette) and with proper timing make counter-attack whilst dodging.

 

[Nihiru]

Yes, that seems a lot better. Kind of reminds me of the dodge in TW1, but it wasn't as responsive back then. It would also be nice if you could side-step (or do a pirouette) and with proper timing make counter-attack whilst dodging.

A dodge-counter option would, in my opinion, truly give the feel of being the master swordsman that Geralt is. Parry countering is great, but it's essentially just clicking a button when the light turns on. (At least, it was in TW2).

If there's one thing I really hope this combat system doesn't have, it's enemies with invincibility frames during their attack animations. (Except maybe for the special attack(s) of a boss.) I hated attacking a wraith then having it ignore my hit mid-swing and *then* do 3/4s of my health with one attack. Wraiths being immaterial and therefore invulnerable at certain times makes a degree of sense. Wraiths being immaterial and invulnerable while they are hitting me is nothing more than extremely irritating. Especially seeing as there is no visual indication whatsoever. (In TW2, that is.)

I am glad to see the removal of the dodge-roll. It was slow and unresponsive.

 

[JackieEstacado]

Yes, I think this could be great.
And facing skilled swordsmen that can counter would be even more awesome. Think about it, both you and your foe should pay particular attention and think twice before attacking. To avoid counter spam, the timing to perform the counter-striking should be stricter, its time frame limited. This way you should be forced to plan and set up every move, alternating reversals, pirouettes and counters.
But, honestly, I don't think that the time at CD Projekt's disposal is enough to implement all these features. Probably they will focus their attention on debugging and animations.
But if they do add the moves mentioned above, I would be super happy.

 

[moonknightgog]

I totally agree, that's why I call the rolling around constantly the "cheesing-it strategy" because it's incredibly effective even though it's really boring and nonsensical.
Let's just say I'm not impressed by people who beat the game on the hardest difficulty by only using that strategy, although it is absolutely their right to do so if they wish. Personally I am actually one of those people who prefer to modify the difficulty for myself, when it comes to combat I just prefer the feeling of doing parries and ripostes with minimum dodging, but I also actually refrain from upgrading my weapons sometimes if I feel it becomes too easy. I also usually play on normal, getting two-shot by most enemies is part of the reason people tend to use the roll so much.

My problem is that everybody has to use that strategy during the first few hours of the game because of some unfortunate design decisions, and I also see a lot of people who assume that this is the only way to play the game. TW2 got a lot of misguided negative criticism directed towards it from people who missed out on the depth the combat system CAN have.

Fix could be: roll consume vigor. So you can use it only few times in combat.

 

[Daeron87]

To be honest, when I first watched the Killing Monsters trailer with the hand-to-hand/dagger combat, I was instantly reminded of the Batman free flow. With some changes here and there and some tweaking, taking into account that you fight with swords against other people with melee weapons or monsters, it could work. In W1, I mainly used the fast styles with some exceptions, because that seemed more appropriate for a witcher and the lore surrounding their way of fighting. This isn't Skyrim or D&D, where I like meat mountains using heavy greatswords and greataxes. The only one I can imagine fighting like a raging hulk, with strong swipes and hard hitting attacks is Letho and even he was supposed to be exceptionally fast. Also, because witchers were created to fight monsters, some of them really faster or stronger, in my mind it seems only natural that they are mostly trained to the idea of preferably dodging and countering than parrying ( as is evident from that slyzard event ) . Free flow is ideal for that kind of fast movement, reflexes and finesse.

The slower, stronger method of attack, could be an effect of a potion. Enraging you, giving you more damage ( and some kind of pain or damage resistance perhaps ) but making you slower, taking away most of your ability to dodge or parry.

Mind you, I'm not talking about an exact copy of B:A combat, I'm not fond of a Geralt that flies around the battlefield comboing enemies, just the main idea, with the addition of some tactics targeted into each monster's weakness and maybe some environmental control, for added awesomeness.

The main thing we need though, are stronger enemies, whether human, animal or monstrous. Stronger, smarter, preferably both. Witchers might be the ultimate killing machines, but the Legend among them once died by a farmer's hand. The game needs to reflect your badassery and your mortality at the same time.

 

[Nihiru]

The main thing we need though, are stronger enemies, whether human, animal or monstrous. Stronger, smarter, preferably both. Witchers might be the ultimate killing machines, but the Legend among them once died by a farmer's hand. The game needs to reflect your badassery and your mortality at the same time.

Stronger enemies are nice, smarter enemies are better, but please CDPR don't give humans and basic monsters that much *health*. It was insanely immersion breaking in TW2 when it took 10 or more Strong attacks (earlier on, at least) to kill... A bandit... With literally nothing covering their torso.

This is my opinion but, I'd prefer it if, in the event that Geralt takes lots of damage from hits, enemies do as well. There's nothing more annoying than an unarmored human opponent shrugging off 20 grenades and sword swipes yet still killing you in one or two hits. (Unless they're super slow and/or a boss.) Make tough enemies LOOK tough. Give humans armor if they have a lot of health. Give them dangerous looking weapons if they do a lot of damage.

The baseline though is this: If Geralt dies quickly, please have him *kill* quickly as well.

 

[ONLY_ONCE]

I still hope for monster combat that is up close and not to fast but not to slow, like Geralt swinging at those flying monsters in the very first gameplay. It looked more realistic & fun than any other sword game I have ever seen to date.

 

[Pedrolago]

I still hope for monster combat that is up close and not to fast but not to slow, like Geralt swinging at those flying monsters in the very first gameplay. It looked more realistic & fun than any other sword game I have ever seen to date.

Me too man, I still dream about the combat from the trailers

 

[Medy89]

Stronger enemies are nice, smarter enemies are better, but please CDPR don't give humans and basic monsters that much *health*. It was insanely immersion breaking in TW2 when it took 10 or more Strong attacks (earlier on, at least) to kill... A bandit... With literally nothing covering their torso.

This is my opinion but, I'd prefer it if, in the event that Geralt takes lots of damage from hits, enemies do as well. There's nothing more annoying than an unarmored human opponent shrugging off 20 grenades and sword swipes yet still killing you in one or two hits. (Unless they're super slow and/or a boss.) Make tough enemies LOOK tough. Give humans armor if they have a lot of health. Give them dangerous looking weapons if they do a lot of damage.

The baseline though is this: If Geralt dies quickly, please have him *kill* quickly as well.

funny that you mention that ... I absolutly agree ... I liked that geralt in dark mode took alot of dmg ... but unarmored humans had just crazy amounts of health ... but later it kinda fixed itself by me having strong ass weapons.... for monsters it didnt feel that bad but definetly wrong for unarmored humans (when you had a weak weapon )

& this is also why I hated alchemy & crafting bombs & traps ... you had to waste so much time/money on it ...but having such a little effect ... ( on easy it kinda worked) but on dark mode it wasnt balanced

 

[Yasakani]

Mind you, I'm not talking about an exact copy of B:A combat, I'm not fond of a Geralt that flies around the battlefield comboing enemies, just the main idea, with the addition of some tactics targeted into each monster's weakness and maybe some environmental control, for added awesomeness.

From the trailer, it looks much closer to Batman now than it was in The Witcher 2. I think this is really awesome since Batman has one of the best action gameplay. The combat is very satisfying when you parry and counter enemies perfectly. And on top of that there is a learning curve.

From all the trailers, it seems like Geralt is very fast. So he must be faster and stronger than Batman. If Batman can take on 10+ enemies I don't see why Geralt can't do the same in great fashion. Look at how crazy fast Letho is in his trailer, countering, dodging and killing the archer/guardmen/sorcerer in one swipe. I think the gameplay needs to reach that level. =]

 

[Nihiru]

funny that you mention that ... I absolutly agree ... I liked that geralt in dark mode took alot of dmg ... but unarmored humans had just crazy amounts of health ... but later it kinda fixed itself by me having strong ass weapons.... for monsters it didnt feel that bad but definetly wrong for unarmored humans (when you had a weak weapon )

& this is also why I hated alchemy & crafting bombs & traps ... you had to waste so much time/money on it ...but having such a little effect ... ( on easy it kinda worked) but on dark mode it wasnt balanced

Yeah. I'm personally of the opinion that (in most games) raising the difficulty should never raise enemy health. *cough* Skyrim *cough*.
Particularly the bandits in before you meet up with Triss outside the Kayran's lair seemed to have way too much health.
Once you get to late game it doesn't matter really, in any difficulty. xD

Eh, I never, ever crafted traps. Snares (the kind you could just pick up off the ground in Act 1) were OP as hell though when you had time to prepare for a big tough enemy fight. Just stack 15 or so of them in the same spot and it instantly kills almost any enemy in the game. (Very useful against the Endrega queens on Dark before you have much equipment.) The other traps, though? Useless.
Bombs were only good when you spammed them or against big hordes of weak enemies. I liked the Dragon's Dream.
Potions were kind of useful... But didn't have much of an effect.

 

[Medy89]

Yeah. I'm personally of the opinion that (in most games) raising the difficulty should never raise enemy health. *cough* Skyrim *cough*.
Particularly the bandits in before you meet up with Triss outside the Kayran's lair seemed to have way too much health.
Once you get to late game it doesn't matter really, in any difficulty. xD

Eh, I never, ever crafted traps. Snares (the kind you could just pick up off the ground in Act 1) were OP as hell though when you had time to prepare for a big tough enemy fight. Just stack 15 or so of them in the same spot and it instantly kills almost any enemy in the game. (Very useful against the Endrega queens on Dark before you have much equipment.) The other traps, though? Useless.
Bombs were only good when you spammed them or against big hordes of weak enemies. I liked the Dragon's Dream.
Potions were kind of useful... But didn't have much of an effect.

Yeah I got my fair share of that health experiece in skyrim too ... what was worse playing a mage on legendary ... defeating a dragon is total nonesense on that difficulty ... since mages had no critacal hits that do unreal amounts of damage you can throw spells at it for hours ... it was really hillarious & its the perfect example that raising hp = not higher difficulty, its just strechtes the time of the battle without being any more difficult ... its a very small thing in w2 ... it was present in some parts at the beginning... Its just smth to notice ... just having less health and recieving more dmg rocks for difficulty spikes... I remember getting killed from nekker/drowners who jumped at my back with 1 hit... I loved it^^ .. this is where the signs & spells & geralts movement can truly shine... I mean recieving tons of hits from monsters & not dying feels so wrong .... & since there are so many different mosters in w3 ill probably die alot since dark mode or go home^^...

W2 did a real good job in terms of combat ... its why I could enyoy that game so much ... with w3 being even better .. oh my it will be so much fun ...

 

[Afromane]

I was very impressed with the new combat system but my only gripe is the way some of the dismemberment happens. The cutting angle doesn't always correspond to Geralt's striking angle. for instance, a drowner being cut downwards diagonally from right to left when Geralt strikes diagonally from left to right. I also remember a drowner being dismembered at the same angle from a backwards stab attack. Then there's one of the deserters being beheaded from a jumping verical stike. I really hope the awesome guys at CDPR look into this.