Combat in The Witcher 3

[apollozen]

"don't want to draw any comparisons, but that is part of the motivation for us."

Perfect. Everything about this game has me excited now. The Monster Hunting sounds incredible, the open world looks incredible, the graphics look insane, the cities look like cities and have so much going on in what little we've seen...now the combat is being described as at least somewhat inspired by one of the best systems in gaming? Sold, done, I want the Collector's pre-order thanks. I've heard enough.

The Batman: Arkham series has by far the most fluid combat system I have ever played, the flow from move to move is really unrivaled, there are no annoying animation problems...and stylistic the speed and fluidity fit the Witcher extremely well. It also played into preparation really well (scout, disable, surprise)

The only problem with the Batman series is that combat was always insanely fun, but too easy...CDPR has also indicated they look to Demon/Dark Souls for difficulty.

So if they are emulating the Batman system, while trying to retain a high level of difficulty. I'm INSANELY excited, especially since we are still yet to know how this slow motion "Witcher Sense"/dismemberment system works in addition to everything.

Anyone who doesn't like the Batman system has probably only watched people play it, because no matter how people felt about the games...everyone I know LOVED the combat. It also wasn't ever really Batman-like to me (I always though as Batman as brutal and powerful, Arkham is more speed and precision (which IS Geralt from the books).

TL;DR: Batman combat + more difficulty + tactical depth = GotY on combat alone easily...in fact it only needs more difficulty OR more tactical depth to get GotY, if it hits all three it becomes genre defining for the new age of RPGs.

 

[Bellator Pius Gratus]

In their latest interview with IGN India:


That's not saying the combat system will be exactly like Batman: Arkham.
For a lot of players, the combat system in TW2 was a chore (not for me). The FCR didn't help much in my opinion, but it shows they know where are the flaws of their system.
One of their main focus this time is to make a satisfying combat system.

I love the combat system in Arkham games (and mostly everything about this series), but it's a system made for a 20/30 hours long game, and it feels very repetitive and boring in the end (it's also tied to enemy design, which is very redundant). And you can feel overpowered "too soon" if you have normal motricity...
I think it would fit Geralt's fighting style perfectly. I hope they will succeed at making their own "freeflow combat".

I too loved Arkham Asylum and Arkham City, and the combat system, but honestly I don't know.

I know Geralt is superfast and all, has enhanced reflexes, but still. Batman never really carries two handed swords now is he? Batman has cool gadgets but is mostly unarmed when fighting. It is a really well made fighting system but I'm having trouble seeing it with Geralt. The possible combos were nice but....damn I think I want more focus on stylish swordplay than beat them up.

Can't see this Batman fighting tech fluency happening with Geralt but prove me wrong devs and I'm the first to retract that statement!

 

[vivaxardas2015]

I didn't play Batman. Is it similar to Sleeping Dogs, where all you need to do is to press buttons in time? In this case it is TW1 kind of system. But I can't really say anything before I play TW3. Whatever works for any other game does not necessarily would work for the witcher game.

 

[apollozen]

I didn't play Batman. Is it similar to Sleeping Dogs, where all you need to do is to press buttons in time? In this case it is TW1 kind of system. But I can't really say anything before I play TW3. Whatever works for any other game does not necessarily would work for the witcher game.

Well I assume the aspect they are using most heavily from Batman is the free flow aspect (as the slow-mo system we know little about, and Witcher signs already mean that it will functionally still be very different). The key though to Batman's success was that ONE BUTTON was ONE ATTACK, it wasn't like Witcher 2 where sometimes you'd attack more than once, or get locked into a crappy animation at a crappy time.

Basically every button picks a random animation, but that animation is uniform in that, ONE BUTTON IS ONE ATTACK. Which prevents you from every locking into an unfavorable animation that puts you in a tactically poor situation (ie press a button and your animation is three attacks long). Counters could be done simultaneously also with the press of a SINGLE button (I remember them stating that Riposte was being reworked...so it is possible counters work more like in Batman) if timed right (no need to block and wait), even if you were attacking...you would flow into the counter during your attack - hence free flow. You could even attack while midair and what not.

The whole system is incredibly fluid, fast paced and looks insane, its fun to play because you are always pressing a button, always moving, it has a totally kinetic feel, you can feel the momentum of Batman dancing through enemies...and feel it come to a halt when hit. It was totally different from Assassin's Creed as well as you didn't passively wait to counter one guy at a time to one shot him than wait for his buddy, you fought all enemies on screen at the same time, punching, countering, throwing them etc...combos were on multiple enemies at once, not just one at a time.

Adding signs, pirouettes, whatever the "Witcher Sense" ends up being combat wise, and better enemy AI to one of the fastest and most fluid combat systems out there is an exciting prospect. At this point my hype train is reaching record breaking speeds.

My main gripe with Batman, was that 1) it was too easy most of the time, and 2) tactically it wasn't overly deep. CDPR can easily fix those 2 problems with improved aspects of TW1/2 (and again the Witcher Sense notwithstanding), and I'm sure they know that there are players who want a challenge on the hardest difficulties.

 

[Geralt_and_Ciri]

I really don't like the Batman System, you click a enemy and batman instantly jump over everybody and start to punching, this is fun the first hour, but them this turn boring and repetitive, i really like more the dark/demon soul style, i only can take the fluid animation chain from Batman.

 

[apollozen]

I really don't like the Batman System, you click a enemy and batman instantly jump over everybody and start to punching, this is fun the first hour, but them this turn boring and repetitive, i really like more the dark/demon soul style, i only can take the fluid animation chain from Batman.

Slow and methodical doesn't fit Geralt or Witchers in general.

 

[Aes Sídhe]

I reckon most of you are reading too much into this, and it won't be a clone of Batman at all.

there are enough games using it already anyway... and they're action games at that.

Targeting was the most serious problem with TW2's combat when you really break it down, and thats what needs fixed.

 

[Kinley]

Slow and methodical doesn't fit Geralt or Witchers in general.

Slow? No. Methodical? Very. When it comes to precise sword cuts at least.

 

[goopit]

It's really tough to describe the combat system, as it is something you have to play and experience for yourself to fully understand. We're definitely looking at a more fluid combat system with Wild Hunt, where attacking an enemy feels more natural and smooth, unlike older games where you had to lock onto enemies constantly.

WAIT A MINUTE!

there's no more constant invisible lock on!?

this is great news!

as for the whole Batman comparison, I just don't want the combat to be simple like BatmanAC. I want to feel danger all the time while needing to use everything in my arsenal. I want to use the terrain and my surroundings to my advantage.

Make us think during and before combat.

I really liked the camera work in Batman AC though when you kill the last opponent of the group. It'd be cool if there was something like that for W3 when we kill a strong enemy like a sorcerer in a group.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

WAIT A MINUTE!

there's no more constant invisible lock on!?

this is great news!

Be careful though, it could mean that the game now just simply locks on enemies automatically and that you dont have a manual lockon system with a marker.

After all, batman games do have an invisible lock-on system not unlike the one in the witcher 2, except in TW2 your attacks would literally not hit all people who should've been hit by the sword unless you have the skill bought.

I dont remember if this happens in batman games as well, can you do a wide attack in batman for example and hit many enemies at the same time? things with spash damage or counters dont count of course.

 

[Garrison72]

TW2 does not use invisible lock on. It uses a targeting icon and I hope they keep it. Aside from the Arkham games, systems without target indicators suck.

 

[HeelPower]

I don't know.I was hoping for something similar to Souls series.

I hope the combat has a sense of weight,precision and enables blocking and movement.I would like it to be based on punishing the enemies' mistakes.

I haven't played Arkham series so I can't tell ,but its a pretty highly acclaimed series.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

TW2 does not use invisible lock on. It uses a targeting icon and I hope they keep it. Aside from the Arkham games, systems without target indicators suck.

What do you mean?

In my experience, when you attack in the witcher 2 without setting the targeting icon, Geralt attacks and hits (if you dont have the ability) one specific guy, the one thats kind of in front of you and more in the middle of the screen, wich is also what happens in Batman games.

The difference between using the targeting icon and not using it, is that without it you can choose targets just panning the camera around with the mouse, and thus if another guy gets in the way of that your target changes automatically.

 

[shawn_kh]

I don't know.I was hoping for something similar to Souls series.

I hope the combat has a sense of weight,precision and enables blocking and movement.I would like it to be based on punishing the enemies' mistakes.

I haven't played Arkham series so I can't tell ,but its a pretty highly acclaimed series.

The Dark Souls combat system is too slow and human for Geralt, Geralt is a Witcher in other words a mutant. He is faster and stronger than humans; plus he has been wielding swords longer than the greatest of warriors, who live to see old age, because he has a very long life span due to his mutation and the fact that he was trained in swordsmanship at very young age by Vesemir. Also Geralt is even faster and stronger than the other Witchers, since he was pushed to the limits during the trial of grasses, so he ended up with white hair as a result.
The biggest problem with Witcher 2's combat system was the fact that Geralt didn't handle the sword like the legendary White Wolf described in the books. He seemed ungraceful, inefficient, and weak for even a regular Witcher. I'd like to feel his edge in combat, and believe that I'm playing as the Butcher of Blaviken.

 

[whiplash27]

I think the Batman combat is great, but IDK how it would work in a game where swords are the main form of combat. I think Sleeping Dogs took Batman's combat to another level in some senses. However, I would think this is more of an inspiration from Batman than a pure rip of the system. I guess we'll have to see once we get something from the Devs.

 

[apollozen]

I don't know.I was hoping for something similar to Souls series.

I hope the combat has a sense of weight,precision and enables blocking and movement.I would like it to be based on punishing the enemies' mistakes.

I haven't played Arkham series so I can't tell ,but its a pretty highly acclaimed series.

Which isn't anything like Geralt, or Witchers in general. Precise yes, but not weighty. Witchers are quick, and they "float" in combat, they move gracefully, quickly and with ruthless efficiency, they don't want combat to be drawn out if at all possible. They aren't clad in giant armor with shields or wield oversized weaponry for a reason.

And the Souls series isn't about combat...its about learning, once you know where enemies spawn, what stats actually do, and how items affect your strength you just one shot everything. My first play through I killed most bosses on the first try (sometimes even one shotting them) because my friend told me how to build my character. I didn't have to "wait for enemies" to make mistakes. Dark Souls' difficulty came almost entirely (prolly 90%+) from other sources. If you understand that game, combat skill is practically irrelevant.

THAT is what CDPR SHOULD copy from Dark Souls though, mechanics that reward you for exploring every possible resource available to you before walking into a monster's lair, for understanding a monsters weakness, for understanding how each of your abilities can aid you. Encourage and reward preparation.

Combat, the speed and fluidity of the Arkham games fits Geralt's lore 10000x better.

And again, they aren't going to copy and paste another game's system. They look at how they want combat to flow/feel, and try to fit that into their vision for Geralt. He won't be swooping around henchmen, throwing knockout punches. But it doesn't mean they can't have Geralt's targeting be free form, and for him to switch effortlessly from attacking, to pirouettes to blocking/ripostes without breaking a constant flow to it.

Witcher's go into a trance, they are unrelenting, they don't carry shields, they don't hide behind armor. Until their target (or the Witcher itself) is dead they don't stop.

"They fought with blind abandon" - quote directly from the "What are Witchers" mini backstory thing included in The Witcher 2. No inhibition, no restraint. The opposite of Dark Souls.

 

[Cheylus]

In case I wasn't clear enough: I don't want nor expect CDPR to copy freeflow combat from B:A into TW3. If I want to play a game with Dark Souls mechanics I play Dark Souls (which, this time, doesn't fit Geralt at all), the same with B:A and The Witcher. It needs a lot of adaptation to fit in. But the two or three main pros of this system for me ("crowd control", targetting, rhythm) would be great additions to TW.

 

[EmperorZorn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPW1zGsPFZI

I really like Batman's combat system, but I don't think it'd do well in the Witcher 3.
Geralt simply is no superhero, he fights with a sword.

Parrying and timing is more important in a combat system based on swords,
than jumping back and forth and pummeling enemies like a wrestler on steroids.

That being said, I agree that one thing Geralt can learn from Batman is the faster response time: one button press equals one attack.
And the freeflow targeting is also a good design choice when fighting multiple enemies.

We'll see what CDPR does in the end.
After all they are the experts who have thought about this long enough.

 

[HeelPower]

And the Souls series isn't about combat...its about learning, once you know where enemies spawn, what stats actually do, and how items affect your strength you just one shot everything. My first play through I killed most bosses on the first try (sometimes even one shotting them) because my friend told me how to build my character. I didn't have to "wait for enemies" to make mistakes. Dark Souls' difficulty came almost entirely (prolly 90%+) from other sources. If you understand that game, combat skill is practically irrelevant.

I disagree.The souls series is first and foremost about improving your skill and exploiting enemy weakness rather than stats and upgrading equipment.

Infact armor and weapon stats are completely irrelevant if you know exactly how to handle the enemy, predict and punish them.

but anyway the reason I wish CDP would use elements from that series is because its the most rewarding experience imo.

Stringing piles of enemies together and mashing my way through is just isn't that fun when it comes to gameplay.

So yes maybe the lore is all about the speed of the witchers but honestly the gameplay doesn't have to be.You can't just keep tapping buttons to win and call it fun.

Anyway I am sure it will be enjoyable in the end.I wasn't disappointed with combat in either of the games.

 

[batsmack]

Arkham is one of my favourite franchises, so I'm happy about this ! Obv I don't want them to be too similar, but there are a couple of things I think CD can learn from Rocksteady.

The gamepad controls are fantastic in Arkham. There are so many moves that you can easily pull off by a simple tap of one or two buttons. This makes combat feel very fluent. I hope CD makes it so that spells can be casted in this way (say LT + facebutton, or something like that). No menus in combat please ! I also really like how one animation transforms into the next in Arkham. It's so smooth and elegant.

I hope TW3 won't have a freeflow system in the sense that you "fly" across the battlefield the way Bat does because it would be a bit silly. I also hope CD keeps (and improve) the idea that you can aim ranged weapons manually in slow-mo. Thought that was cool and it makes sense vs the larger beasts with weak spots.