Combat in The Witcher 3

[Pedrolago]

@sidspyker

Pirouettes, Feints and Dodges, are vital moves in medieval fencing(mainly european) if I'm not mistaken, so there is plenty of room to make the animations look cool and yet stay grounded, but they really went overboard this time, plus megaman dashes and mindless spinning

 

[JackieEstacado]

@sidspyker

Pirouettes, Feints and Dodges, are vital moves in medieval fencing(mainly european) if I'm not mistaken, so there is plenty of room to make the animations look cool and yet stay grounded, but they really went overboard this time, plus megaman dashes and mindless spinning

Unfortunately we will have to get over it, because I don't think they are going to modify anything on the combat field.
I hope they listen to us, but I wouldn't caress the idea that much. The risk of disappointment is too huge otherwise...

 

[Garrison72]

The functionality seems to be there which is what matters most. We can strafe, hold block, parry, and it appears counters are in. TW2 may look more fluid, but it locked you into multiple animations and sort of over committed the player when he attacked. Having the ability to break off and dodge at any time is huge, and frankly not many games allow such responsive action. I can also see the difference between light and strong attacks - strong still has the orange flare to it like past games. And one new thing - in the cave under the tree, when Geralt is fighting the Endragas, he slashes down, holds the sword in place, then steps forward to slash up. It appears he doesn't always return to a default stance after each attack. This will improve continuity in group fights imo. Skip to 31:25.

All that's left is to cycle attack animations and make the dodge seem less jerky and I expect this will be far better than TW2.

 

[Kinley]

The "megaman dashes" are not that big of a problem as they can be worked upon until release. It's not like the combat is not functional as it is, it just needs some tweaks.

 

[Pedrolago]

Unfortunately we will have to get over it, because I don't think they are going to modify anything on the combat field.
I hope they listen to us, but I wouldn't caress the idea that much. The risk of disappointment is too huge otherwise...

Unfortunately that seems to be the case, what I do hope is that they tweak as much as they can to make it seem more natural

 

[PolyaSchoenfeld]

Hello, what have been known so far about the alchemy ? I didnt like the alchemy/crafting in TW2..
So we collect ingredients, get formulas, sit at bonfire, brew the potion yea ?
What is this I heard about automatic filling of potions ???
Also Geralt can now hold and release the effect of potions ?
then the timing of drinking potions is no longer relevant ?
are there secondary elements like in TW1 ? (that was really cool) I also hope they haven't removed mutagens ((
I like the idea of alchemy system in TW1 + interaction with environmental/weather effects (but yea this does sound a bit far-fetched )

 

[MassEffectReaper]

I hope we can hold down both light and strong attack buttons to receive extra combat animations (as opposed to just tapping them)

 

[EliHarel]

Hello, what have been known so far about the alchemy ? I didnt like the alchemy/crafting in TW2..

Here's a (long) thread dedicated to alchemy:

http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/28983-The-Witcher-3-Alchemy-System

So we collect ingredients, get formulas, sit at bonfire, brew the potion yea ?

Yep, the core is the same.

What is this I heard about automatic filling of potions ???

The whole topic is still a bit unclear. Kinley, a forum member, interviewed the devs about it:

About the potion system - in a recent interview Konrad told us that the potions would auto-refill. Is this still the case?
Automatically filling? No, no. Those are definitely consumable items, and you brew them you drink them and they are very very important in terms of preparation before the fight.

(A bit more of a clarification here since I talked to another dev off camera. The potions/bomb system works like this: You get the recipe and it will cost a big amount of materials to craft, and you’ll get something like 3 charges of the swallow potion for example. When you run out, you will need materials to craft the potions again, but they will require only a fraction of the materials needed compared to when you first craft the bomb/potion.)

How is ingredient gathering for potions? Is it similar to how it was handled in previous games?
It’s very similar.

You can see the whole transcript here:

http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/31399-Kinley-goes-to-Gamescom

It's a recommended read.

However, there was another interview afterwards, somewhere in our main Interviews thread, that mentioned something different about the filling of ingredients. So at the moment there's no clear answer.

Also Geralt can now hold and release the effect of potions ?
then the timing of drinking potions is no longer relevant ?

If I understand correctly, there are two group of potions. Let's call them Major and Minor. The Major group are potions with significant bonuses that you can take only when outside combat, like in TW2. The Minor group are potions of smaller advantage that you can take during combat, like in TW1.

I remember some months ago that there was a lot of talk about "freezing" the potion effects and releasing them only when you needed it. I don't know if this element still exists, with this (I think new?) system of two groups of potions.

are there secondary elements like in TW1 ? (that was really cool) I also hope they haven't removed mutagens ((

Not sure.

Edit: Also, @sandbox123 , skip to minute 27:00 in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx8kQ4s5hCY

You can see Geralt meditating, and get a feel of how it's done in the game. If you pause the picture you can see that there's a slot for "Equipped bombs and potions", and a different slot for "Available mutagen potions". The potion found in the "Equipped bombs and potions" box is the same appearing in the quickbar outside meditation, so these are likely items you can use during combat, while the mutagens are more like TW2's system.

 

[dragonbird]

Thanks for the explanation, eliharel.
And it would be appreciated if any further discussion on potions/alchemy could be moved to the thread you linked to:
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/28983-The-Witcher-3-Alchemy-System

 

[crimzonwarrior]

z

 

[kissybyc]

A problem I have with the combat is that the much-anticipated 96 attack animations haven't seemed to make their appearances.

So far I have only seen two animations used as Geralt attacks from a distance: a jump with side spin (that cuts the enemy from eft shoulder to right hip) and a complete spin cut. Where are the rest of the 96? I hope to see more...

 

[Sharpy47]

Yeah the lack of promised animations is very obvious, but at the same time we know it was an old E3 build so Im hoping to see the rest of the animations in the Final game build.

 

[sidspyker]

Thinking about that... it's not possible to ever see 96 animations in combat, never will combat last that long or continue a chain of animations as I see it. Maybe it means total combat animations not just swords because I cannot think of any way a game can ever show almost a hundred different animations in combat. The older DMC games might reach that number perhaps...

Even if I combined all animations related to combat I still so Come to think of it all combat animations combined could be 90+ perhaps. I cannot ever imagine just sword animations being 90, that's is an impossibility.

 

[JackieEstacado]

Thinking about that... it's not possible to ever see 96 animations in combat, never will combat last that long or continue a chain of animations as I see it. Maybe it means total combat animations not just swords because I cannot think of any way a game can ever show almost a hundred different animations in combat. The older DMC games might reach that number perhaps...

Even if I combined all animations related to combat I still so Come to think of it all combat animations combined could be 90+ perhaps. I cannot ever imagine just sword animations being 90, that's is an impossibility.

We were taking about attacks variety, not about infinite combos to reach that number.
Until now the attack options seem to be just a few. The combinations are always starting with the same two attacks, maybe three. We didn't even reach 40 animations...

 

[EliHarel]

I'm lowering my expectations about that "96 different animations" thing. There are probably several that are very situationa, like when an enemy is against a wall. I remember from Arkham City such a situation, where an enemy was against the wall and Batman did a finishing move I've never seen until then - or since, because it was such a specific moment that I never found myself in it again in a battle. Then maybe there are some animations for weapons other than the swords, that fall into that "96" statement. And so forth.

So while I'm hoping for more, I'm not expecting too much about the variety in animation for your average, regular combat sequence.

 

[sidspyker]

We were taking about attacks variety, not about infinite combos to reach that number.
Until now the attack options seem to be just a few. The combinations are always starting with the same two attacks, maybe three. We didn't even reach 40 animations...

That is rather...well it depends on what the combat system really is like. So far it's been a combo combat system, meaning relies on user making a combination of attacks(mixing light and heavy). You can't have random animations with that otherwise you would end up like Witcher 2 where sometimes strikes could be of any length and unpredictable. I don't remember them ever saying "96 sword animations" but that there's 90 plus combat animations in contrast to Witcher 2's 20 combat animations. There were never 20 sword strike animations in TW2, so that's obviously not what they meant. I think there were 10-12 adding light and heavy and then the rest of the stuff.

So combat animations would mean - sword strikes, new movement animations in combat mode, bombs, daggers, crossbow etc, signs(now we have 2 of each) plus like the flamethrower sign also lets us move while casting so that's extra an animation there too, parries, dodges, finishing moves that can add upto 90+ but just sword strikes? Not a possibility as I see it.

But only a RED can clear it up... or the game, but I wouldn't keep any such unrealistic expectations of 90 different sword animations. Hell that would make combat instructors sweat, 90 different types of swings?

 

[JackieEstacado]

That is rather...well it depends on what the combat system really is like. So far it's been a combo combat system, meaning relies on user making a combination of attacks(mixing light and heavy). You can't have random animations with that otherwise you would end up like Witcher 2 where sometimes strikes could be of any length and unpredictable. I don't remember them ever saying "96 sword animations" but that there's 90 plus combat animations in contrast to Witcher 2's 20 combat animations. There were never 20 sword strike animations in TW2, so that's obviously not what they meant. I think there were 10-12 adding light and heavy and then the rest of the stuff.

So combat animations would mean - sword strikes, new movement animations in combat mode, bombs, daggers, crossbow etc, signs(now we have 2 of each) plus like the flamethrower sign also lets us move while casting so that's extra an animation there too, parries, dodges, finishing moves that can add upto 90+ but just sword strikes? Not a possibility as I see it.

But only a RED can clear it up... or the game, but I wouldn't keep any such unrealistic expectations of 90 different sword animations. Hell that would make combat instructors sweat, 90 different types of swings?

Up until now we haven't seen nothing really different from TW2 apart from the dodges and the combination of signs.
Honestly I am still convinced that, even counting the non sword strikes, we didn't reach 40/50 animations. Plus, being it a combo- based fighting system, it should show more variety in the heavy/quick attack combinations. All we have seen is spinning attacks. In total only ONE thrust was performed. The attacks out of the pirouette could be different from the ones from the regular stance, instead they are not. Also when Geralt changes his guard stance, he attacks in the same fashion.
Now imagine to use always the same three, four slashes for the whole 100 hours of the adventure, whatever you are doing, be it hunting. protecting people, progressing in the story and so on. To me it would be really boring.

I agree with you when you say that we shouldn't expect that much, but they are the ones who claimed 90 animations. I hope they back it up with facts.

 

[Kinley]

I agree with you when you say that we shouldn't expect that much, but they are the ones who claimed 90 animations. I hope they back it up with facts.

He said we shouldn't expect 90 sword animations.

Love how we're so quick to judge when we barely saw anything so far. Let's not forget there's an entire swordsmanship tree that unlocks new moves as you progress through it. What we saw was just a taste, and I'm fairly happy with the variation shown in the fairly short combat sequences that we saw. There were pirouettes, kicks, fair variation on sword swings. One can only imagine the plethora of moves we'll get in the full game.

 

[JackieEstacado]

He said we shouldn't expect 90 sword animations.

Love how we're so quick to judge when we barely saw anything so far. Let's not forget there's an entire swordsmanship tree that unlocks new moves as you progress through it. What we saw was just a taste, and I'm fairly happy with the variation shown in the fairly short combat sequences that we saw. There were pirouettes, kicks, fair variation on sword swings. One can only imagine the plethora of moves we'll get in the full game.

In fact I am not saying that those features won't be in the final product. I (and also the others) said that until now, those features weren't shown.
We were just expressing our worries about the real fight variety and our hopes to see more about combat animations.
If the combat system will happen to be varied as they said, then I will be the happiest person in this forum.

That's it.

 

[Kinley]

those features weren't shown

And they don't have to be shown until release as far as I'm concerned.

Showing too much about the game can be just as harmful as not showing nothing at all. You are within your own right to be worried, nobody said otherwise, but try to keep things into perspective. You honestly can't expect for them to showcase their entire moveset for Geralt. As for what we've seen so far, it was all within the context of very short fights on a difficulty that is tweaked for public demos, where one swing kills a drowner, thus showcasing extended combos being difficult to pull off.

Like I said in my previous post, what we've seen so far is already a step up from Witcher 2 (pirouettes, no more long sword swinging animations, kick ripostes). I can only imagine what a tree like swordsmanship will have to offer in the full game, and I can't wait to find that out on my own when the game comes out.