Combat in The Witcher 3

[JackieEstacado]

What do you guys think about upcoming game "Shadow of Mordor" combat system?

It's a standard system with really good an varied animations and it mixes up most of the best mechanics of action games of this decade.
But it's not original at all. I think that the real strength of that game is the Nemesis System and the overall "package".
The thing that I dislike the most about it is the graphics, that seems to be straight from the last gen.

I think that TW3 should take it as an example only for the dynamism, because Geralt beats Talion in everything else.

90+ animations look good on paper but what does it matter if the combat doesn't come even close to TW1s combat which came out in 2007 and the animations in that game were a visual feast? I just don't see any variety. Will there be actually any difference between using steel and silver sword this time?

TW1 animations were stiff as hell. They were only more varied and acrobatic.

Anyway, we'll see in the future if the rest of TW3 move set is worthy or not.

 

[gab96]

The problem is that he seems to do only large slashes but no thrusting attacks.

 

[eLeF1]

TW1 animations were stiff as hell. They were only more varied and acrobatic.

Anyway, we'll see in the future if the rest of TW3 move set is worthy or not.

I liked that they were "stiff" it meant that Geralt actually stood his ground and didn't just rolled/dashed/jumped around like a stupid monkey. They weren't really realistic but they were certainly more grounded and believable.

 

[ilayoeli]

The combat should be nothing like Batman Arkham's.
It's an RPG, it should be challenging, tactical and balanced. More along the line of Dark Souls rather than Batman Arkham's "keep the combo" combat.

I actually really liked TW2's combat, except for the excessive role-dodging and the OP Quen sign (which was later fixed).
CDPR should only make the dodges un-spamable and fix the potions-consumption system (make it like TW1) and they're there.

 

[Scryar]

I think it would be great if the next footage would be completely focussed on combat mechanics on a higher difficulty. I know many people who are sceptical about the combat and so far we have not seen much of it. Especially because all the footage so far was on easy (at least i hope it was on easy)

 

[JackieEstacado]

I liked that they were "stiff" it meant that Geralt actually stood his ground and didn't just rolled/dashed/jumped around like a stupid monkey. They weren't really realistic but they were certainly more grounded and believable.

With stiff I mean puppet-like lack of fluidity of the attacks, that are poorly animated. I wasn't questioning the type of attack used.

 

[eLeF1]

I think it would be great if the next footage would be completely focussed on combat mechanics on a higher difficulty. I know many people who are sceptical about the combat and so far we have not seen much of it. Especially because all the footage so far was on easy (at least i hope it was on easy)

Difficulty does not change the combat itself, it only changes how tough the enemies are. The animations and combat mechanics remain the same.

With stiff I mean puppet-like lack of fluidity of the attacks, that are poorly animated. I wasn't questioning the type of attack used.

I disagree, i still think they were superb cosidering the game came out in 2007.

 

[DukeAlmighty]

I noticed that at 21:25, while attacking the bandit with hammer, Geralt does dodge in the middle of spinning attack and it cuts the animation short and does dodge.. not sure I like it..

 

[ilayoeli]

Difficulty does not change the combat itself, it only changes how tough the enemies are. The animations and combat mechanics remain the same.
.

Damn, the enemies look easy as hell and geralt is so fast he's OP

 

[Fallout_Wanderer]

Damn, the enemies look easy as hell and geralt is so fast he's OP

You won't be saying that when you encounter a really quick & deadly beast while exploring. Not saying that this is the final speed for Geralt and his opponents but even if it were, this is how I look at it - In TW2 Geralt seemed quite normal physically. Especially in comparison to ordinary human swordsman he would encounter during battle, nothing really separated Geralt from them - his master swordsman/mutated Witcher abilities were never really expressed properly IMO.

Now, they have made Geralt faster than your average human. It is much closer to the lore and Geralt can easily over come typical bandits and your average human adversary with speed and agility alone. As it should be. There will be plenty of tough opponents that should give Geralt a run for his money, armored opponents,master swordsman,certain monsters that are very fast,strong & deadly.

Regardless, these things can be tweaked easily compared to other areas of the game that are too close to release with not enough time to make changes.

 

[ONLY_ONCE]

Hi.... TW3 Combat looks cool!!!
TW1/TW2 & SKYRIM can't even hold a flame TW3.

 

[Sharpy47]

I wonder how smooth the combat will look in the final build. Right now the transitions between the animations looks really jerky and unpolished. It needs a lot of work.

 

[ilayoeli]

You won't be saying that when you encounter a really quick & deadly beast while exploring. Not saying that this is the final speed for Geralt and his opponents but even if it were, this is how I look at it - In TW2 Geralt seemed quite normal physically. Especially in comparison to ordinary human swordsman he would encounter during battle, nothing really separated Geralt from them - his master swordsman/mutated Witcher abilities were never really expressed properly IMO.

Now, they have made Geralt faster than your average human. It is much closer to the lore and Geralt can easily over come typical bandits and your average human adversary with speed and agility alone. As it should be. There will be plenty of tough opponents that should give Geralt a run for his money, armored opponents,master swordsman,certain monsters that are very fast,strong & deadly.

Regardless, these things can be tweaked easily compared to other areas of the game that are too close to release with not enough time to make changes.

Really, I don't mind the lore being butchered if it means the combat will be challenging.
From the demos it looks like the player attempted to make his kills look cool and use diverse combat options rather than fighting for Geralt's life, and still he wasn't even hit.

 

[JackieEstacado]

Really, I don't mind the lore being butchered if it means the combat will be challenging.
From the demos it looks like the player attempted to make his kills look cool and use diverse combat options rather than fighting for Geralt's life, and still he wasn't even hit.

Well, let's hope that it was on easy mode. Along with animations and combat variety, I'm worried about enemy A.I.
They said that, on higher difficulties, the hard times will be supplied by the increased number of opponents. Now the bandits looked quite dumb in the demos, so if they will only increase the number of enemies on the screen, probably they will keep being turds on hard mode.

I really hope I'm wrong...

 

[ilayoeli]

Well, let's hope that it was on easy mode. Along with animations and combat variety, I'm worried about enemy A.I.
They said that, on higher difficulties, the hard times will be supplied by the increased number of opponents. Now the bandits looked quite dumb in the demos, so if they will only increase the number of enemies on the screen, probably they will keep being turds on hard mode.

I really hope I'm wrong...

Man, they attacked once in a decade. It was almost embarrassing :/
CDPR should justslow down Geralt's moves, fix the awkward and choppy animations and make the enemies more aggressive and the combat will be good.

 

[Pedrolago]

They could use a few tasteful quick kill animations too, like when the enemy is about to die instead of a normal animation geralt thrusts at his belly or cuts his jugular something like that

 

[freakie1one]

Man, they attacked once in a decade. It was almost embarrassing :/
CDPR should justslow down Geralt's moves, fix the awkward and choppy animations and make the enemies more aggressive and the combat will be good.

Advanced NPC AI is almost non-existent in current generation RPGs. It's an area that definitely could use some improvement. Simplistic AI makes combat predictable and boring once you learn an enemy's attack pattern (usually restricted to one, two or three different attacks). The only game that I know of which is creating advanced NPC AI is Sui Generis. Every fight in that game is unscripted and uses procedurally generated animation. Combat plays out in a unique way every time even if you're fighting the exact same opponent. This is due to the AI actually being capable of interpreting what is going on around them, and being capable of reacting appropriately, while not being restricted to a set of static animations; combat is very dynamic and it doesn't feel like you're fighting a robot that only knows a few different ways to move/attack. In Sui Generis the AI is good enough that it's actually hard to distinguish whether or not a character is controlled by AI or an actual person.

While I'm hoping the combat in TW3 is improved from the previous two games I don't expect it to be on the same level as SG. I'll be satisfied if they can make it somewhat challenging and more player-centric as opposed to Geralt just doing his own thing when you press a button. I think the more control the player has over what Geralt does the better (please no more cutscene finishers!). I prefer functionality over flashiness.

 

[JackieEstacado]

Man, they attacked once in a decade. It was almost embarrassing :/
CDPR should justslow down Geralt's moves, fix the awkward and choppy animations and make the enemies more aggressive and the combat will be good.

I agree with you almost on everything, except for Geralt's speed. He is a witcher, so he's supposed to be a bolt-fast attacker.
To me working on enemy attack patterns and general A.I. would be enough, and the best and funniest possibility.
The enemies, be it bandits or swordsmen, could have also animations of gestures to communicate each other and some lines like "let's attack on both sides!" or "watch out his demonic spells!" or something like that. It's not that difficult. There was something like that in Max Payne 3 and even way before in Metal Gear Solid 2, and they were respectively of 3 and 2 generations ago… so nothing impossible.

Not only it would give depth to the gameplay, but also boost the sense of reality and immersion. Why not doing it?

 

[Sardukhar]

Not only it would give depth to the gameplay, but also boost the sense of reality and immersion. Why not doing it?

Time and money. Not that what you're suggesting is a huge demand, relative to, say, building a town, but it is another feature. Imagine you are a developer and you have all these features you want to implement. How many would you guess, from start to finish? One hundred? One thousand? Ten thousand?

If you guess in the last range, you'd be closer to correct. A developer has this huuuuuuuge list of features, big and small, (everything from implementing melee combat in game to seeing nearby birds that flutter up as you walk past), and must winnow them down to the ones that define the game best. Then they implement and start bug fixing. Throughout this, people are adding new features and old ones that -had- to be in are found to be unworkable.

So although we may not see a feature addition being a huge deal, such as your rather good NPC combat communications, it's still yet another thing on the pile. And of course, some of our ideas do make it in - but only a small fraction.

At least until AIs start making games. Perhaps they already have?!

 

[JackieEstacado]

Time and money. Not that what you're suggesting is a huge demand, relative to, say, building a town, but it is another feature. Imagine you are a developer and you have all these features you want to implement. How many would you guess, from start to finish? One hundred? One thousand? Ten thousand?

If you guess in the last range, you'd be closer to correct. A developer has this huuuuuuuge list of features, big and small, (everything from implementing melee combat in game to seeing nearby birds that flutter up as you walk past), and must winnow them down to the ones that define the game best. Then they implement and start bug fixing. Throughout this, people are adding new features and old ones that -had- to be in are found to be unworkable.

So although we may not see a feature addition being a huge deal, such as your rather good NPC combat communications, it's still yet another thing on the pile. And of course, some of our ideas do make it in - but only a small fraction.

At least until AIs start making games. Perhaps they already have?!

I understand your point of view, but I think that a next-gen game based on fighting/hunting combat system needs a good A.I. …
I'm not talking about the best A.I. possible, just something decent to blend well with fighting situations.

The solutions in my previous post were just suggestions and I don't expect them to be developed and implemented in the game, but I think that asking for enemies that hit you if you give them your back for too long is not an exaggerate request. I mean, it's since last gen that people complains about bad A.I., so I think it's time to work well on that, because it can give us some great gameplay.

I can get over the fact that a game doesn't have impressive graphics, but the core system has to work.