This is generally the case in SoM, but there are exceptions -- enough of these exceptions and combat gets hard in that game as well. For example, some enemies you can't attack head on or you get punished for it (you take damage and, worse, your combo counter goes back to 0), some enemies you can't block, only dodge, and there's missiles obviously which can't be blocked, some enemies you can't "jump over", they throw you back down and again, you take damage and lose your combo counter... and so on. It's keeping track of all of these that make it challenging, deciding which action to take against which enemy on the fly, all the while blocking/dodging/attacking against other enemies. (Although I'm not saying SoM is very difficult overall as a game, but there are some challenging fights to be sure, and it just goes to show that you CAN have a combat system like that and have it still be hard.)
I wasn't trying to mock you or anything but the reason you made me chuckle is because you were basically describing the difference between a master swordsman and an amateur swordsman. A master swordsman will be able to react to the situation and adjust appropriately to turn a bad situation into an advantage. He is capable of realizing when he makes a mistake or leaves an opening and he will adjust his attack to turn his mistake into an advantage. He is constantly analyzing what the opponent(s) are doing and reacting to it. On the other hand, an amateur swordsman will make a simple plan and follow through with it every time, not even realizing they've made a mistake or that they've left an opening for their opponent to take advantage of. If Geralt can't react and adjust mid swing he is fighting like an amateur and not the master swordsman he is supposed to be.
The moment you mentioned feints as an example of options lost for "locking" movements, I knew your post will lead to Sui GenerisP). The feeling that I can't shake off, however, is that Sui Generis' system is so unique that no lessons can be learned from it about TW - or any other game actually that relies on a predefined pool of animations (which is every one other than SG, I think?).
Don't get me wrong - feints and parries the way you describe them are amazing. But I'm struggling to imagine them in TW3 as a "spontaneous" move, rather than an "independent action of itself". A combat "move". Like a light attack is a move, and a heavy attack is a move, the only way I'm seeing feints enter the game is as another "move". Say, "Shift+LMB". So from my perspective, locking you into an animation doesn't disallow feints, because feints aren't a spontaneous move to begin with.
The reason I keep referencing SG is because it is revolutionary and so far ahead of the combat in any other game to date. I don't expect CDPR to copy or clone the combat from SG, but simply be inspired by what it does right and use some of the ideas to enhance their own system.
First off, feints are not a spontaneous move in SG but something you intentionally do and control. To follow through with an attack in SG you hold down the mouse button. To stop an attack at any time you release the mouse button, which is how you would perform a feint. It is very simple to use and I believe this would work well in TW3 too. You could still have light and heavy attacks in TW3 but you wouldn't have to press any button in order to perform a feint. Just simply release the button that is performing the light or heavy attack and Geralt would attempt to go back to his neutral stance or pose; you could then transition into a parry or different counterattack.
Say you're performing a heavy attack when you realize that your opponent is going to be quicker and land a blow of their own. You could stop the heavy attack and instead transition into either a parry or a light attack. Of course this transition would have to be timed properly because transitioning from one action to another takes time and is not instantaneous, but it is still a much better option than being locked into an animation that can't be adjusted.
I agree with you that shorter animations would be less irritating to be locked into than longer ones; however, neither is ideal. A sword fight is a constant struggle of acting and reacting. It is a dance where two people are balancing offense and defense and it has a certain flow to it. The skill level of a swordsman is determined by how well he can transition from attacking to defending and by reacting to what his opponent is doing. Locking someone into a "move" during a sword fight is like watching two robots fight; it's not natural, looks odd and makes opponents very easy and predictable.
They key to making this work in a game is that both the player you control and the enemy you fight must be capable of transitioning from one action to another. You are correct that if only the player can do this then the combat would be easy since the NPC AI would still be predictable while the player would not be limited by such restrictions. If both the player and the NPC AI aren't restricted to being locked into animations then combat becomes a lot more dynamic, unpredictable and challenging. You have more to think about and you must pay closer attention to what your opponent is actually doing; make a mistake and your opponent will quickly punish you for it. It removes the safety net of thinking "well, my opponent just did an action so now I know he's locked into the animation for the next 1.5 seconds and I'm free to unload on him in that time frame". Remove this safety net and combat becomes much more dynamic and challenging while also flowing more naturally.
Such features could still be used. Being able to transition from one action to another wouldn't change this.
I'm really hoping they remove a lot of the artificial mechanics like that one. It was quite silly and made the sword fights almost comical when an opponent would strike your back yet Geralt would take no damage because he was parrying towards the front...? Talk about easy mode
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Is it similar to chivalry medieval warfare?
Where could i find footage from the combat alpha, just to understand what you're talking about
Sui Generis is not really like any other game released. Ironically enough (if you know the meaning of the title) it is quite unique
. Currently there are only very early pre-alpha videos released by the devs on Youtube (videos from over a year ago and the game has changed/improved quite a bit since).However, to not derail this thread again I will take this conversation to PM's if you'd like.
Jerky Dodge/Dash Animations
So the only thing that left me unsatisfied in the 35 minute demo were the dodge animations.I decided to pinpoint the exact footage.
Look at this: http://i.giflike.com/zA3Pfp3
Is something seriously wrong or am i delusional?
The witcher 2's animations were much smoother compared to this.Maybe they haven't mo-captured it yet.Moreover, the demo was full of this awkward jerkiness.
So my question is this: Does geralt in the witcher 3 lock in to enemies which means he has to face the locked enemy all the time or is it like the witcher 2 where you weren't locked in, just your attacks were directed to the highlighted enemy?Seems to me it's the former.And that could be the cause of the jerky behavior.
So the only thing that left me unsatisfied in the 35 minute demo were the dodge animations.I decided to pinpoint the exact footage.
Look at this: http://i.giflike.com/zA3Pfp3
Is something seriously wrong or am i delusional?
The witcher 2's animations were much smoother compared to this.Maybe they haven't mo-captured it yet.Moreover, the demo was full of this awkward jerkiness.
So my question is this: Does geralt in the witcher 3 lock in to enemies which means he has to face the locked enemy all the time or is it like the witcher 2 where you weren't locked in, just your attacks were directed to the highlighted enemy?Seems to me it's the former.And that could be the cause of the jerky behavior.
SoM=Geralt on holidays in Middle Earth xD
I love the combat in SoM, it's responsive, well animated and satisfying as fcuk. Even when you've upgraded Tallian up to the nose it's still challenging, especially with a boss or two with their mates getting in your grill. I'm still pre-ordering W3 and playing it whatever what, but WB really set the bar high with this sleeper hit. Amazing.
I love the combat in SoM, it's responsive, well animated and satisfying as fcuk. Even when you've upgraded Tallian up to the nose it's still challenging, especially with a boss or two with their mates getting in your grill. I'm still pre-ordering W3 and playing it whatever what, but WB really set the bar high with this sleeper hit. Amazing.
The only thing wrong so far in the witcher 3 combat is the dodge animations look at this: http://i.giflike.com/zA3Pfp3.
Geralt's dodges perfectly simulate the effects a black hole would have in the human body.
That's fine cause according to the lore Geralt can break the laws of physics
No he can't ,I'm sorry. You must mean Christiano Ronaldo .
But look at that:http://i.giflike.com/zA3Pfp3.
it's atrocious really, thank god i was there to pinpoint it and now CDP will fix it.
Oh no, you don't get it, I'm with you on that point.
It just seems like a repeated deal on the forum to try to justify funny design choices on CDP part (for example the combat looking far to easy and The Witcher sense looks like a challenge-killer) with "according to the lore it's OK"
Yeah, you probably are right i'm not keeping up with the forum that much. I just drop in sometimes to give the devs critical feedback so they know what they need to address ( http://i.giflike.com/zA3Pfp3 ) .The witcher 2 had excellent animation so i'm positive they'll sort it out.
I don't mind the dodge, if it looks and plays solid when I play it I will be very pleased
What I don't like in games like these is to see my avatar floating across the ground while blocking or seeing them walk in slow motion.
Dragons Dogma fucked those two things up, I was just playing AC3 and I like the walking pace and look of my avatars when they walk.
It looks good way better then RDR/GTA5 where the avatars lean from side to side when you turn while walking imo.
I think I said this before, I hope Geralt has a set pace for walking in the game without having to push the left toggle just a bit to make him walk normal.
That is what I like about RDR/GTA5/AC3 when I push the toggle up they walk, simple as that. Now, yes I want a jog/sprint option too but lord only knows how CDPR will map this on gamepad. Because AC3 sprint is right trigger, RDR/GTA5 is the A button and Dragon's Dogma was click down left stick like a FPS game.
CDPR has these options. I still think A should be jump/climb/loot/mount horse maybe, unless it's Y like RDR. B button should still be dodge like TW2 and sprint could be click left stick down and up like Dragon's Dogma. I would also sprint in Skyrim like this, since the devs were kind enough to let me map my own button formula.
HaHa... Sorry I got off the combat topic a wee bit, but yeah... TW3 combat looks way fun already, the only thing that would make the big monster fights better... is tap right trigger to climb them and defeat them your way. Few things are more fun than running up as fast as you can on some big monster enemy, then jump on them and start hacking/slashing/stabing/Igni/Axii them to digital death. Dragon's Dogma was going in the right direction with some of these mechanics. Anyways, I still hope some monster climbing/riding is in the TW3 game. e.g (Oh Man!) If Geralt could jump on a griffin and then mind control it with Axii and stear it's stupid screaming ass into trees and mountian tops just to bring the giant down, that would be super fucking awesome. TW4 Maybe? LOL..
What I don't like in games like these is to see my avatar floating across the ground while blocking or seeing them walk in slow motion.
Dragons Dogma fucked those two things up, I was just playing AC3 and I like the walking pace and look of my avatars when they walk.
It looks good way better then RDR/GTA5 where the avatars lean from side to side when you turn while walking imo.
I think I said this before, I hope Geralt has a set pace for walking in the game without having to push the left toggle just a bit to make him walk normal.
That is what I like about RDR/GTA5/AC3 when I push the toggle up they walk, simple as that. Now, yes I want a jog/sprint option too but lord only knows how CDPR will map this on gamepad. Because AC3 sprint is right trigger, RDR/GTA5 is the A button and Dragon's Dogma was click down left stick like a FPS game.
CDPR has these options. I still think A should be jump/climb/loot/mount horse maybe, unless it's Y like RDR. B button should still be dodge like TW2 and sprint could be click left stick down and up like Dragon's Dogma. I would also sprint in Skyrim like this, since the devs were kind enough to let me map my own button formula.
HaHa... Sorry I got off the combat topic a wee bit, but yeah... TW3 combat looks way fun already, the only thing that would make the big monster fights better... is tap right trigger to climb them and defeat them your way. Few things are more fun than running up as fast as you can on some big monster enemy, then jump on them and start hacking/slashing/stabing/Igni/Axii them to digital death. Dragon's Dogma was going in the right direction with some of these mechanics. Anyways, I still hope some monster climbing/riding is in the TW3 game. e.g (Oh Man!) If Geralt could jump on a griffin and then mind control it with Axii and stear it's stupid screaming ass into trees and mountian tops just to bring the giant down, that would be super fucking awesome. TW4 Maybe? LOL..
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Well i don't know about how it plays but how it looks is certainly far from solid,the dodge that is.
GIF's really aren't good indicators of animation quality...
I disagree, the dodges look like he's wearing roller scates and is being pulled by an invisible rope.
HaHa.. Noway, it looks as it should be
Don't forget Geralt still does a roll move too, I really think we'll enjoy it and understand it better when we play it ourselves.
I fine with it
