I agree with the sheild being blackend after igni use. that would be dope but if it makes the combat run all shitty, then fuck it
The shield already has some little fire effect after you use igni on it.
It doesn't require that much processing power to just change the texture on the shield when it's burned. It's just more dev time for creating those assets/feature.
I just find it funny how Geralt does vertical slashes and the victim just splits in half horizontally. Either it's a really old build or their dismemberment system needs more refinement.
HERE IS WHAT I REALLY WANT FROM THE WITCHER SERIES GAMEPLAY.
I want to see real gameplay where the enemy actually has some AI implemented. Just walking forward slowly and randomly attacking is not a real AI. I want to see them fight like a normal person. They should be able to parry/dodge/flee just like Geralt. If Geralt missed or whiffed an attack, the enemy should punish him for that. If a mob is fighting Geralt, they should have some tactics/formations where they surround him and attack him at the same time, or whatever is the best fighting technique/formation. If the mob consists of two melee soldiers, three archers and a mage, the obvious formation would be melees fight close to Geralt or protect mage/archers, while archers stay back and shoot arrows and mage heals or use other spells... etc.
If they can add AI to NPCs, I don't see why they can't have some AI for gameplay.
CDPR should really focus on the gameplay. They have a long way to go if they want to departure from the typical RPG gameplay elements where mechanical skills are not required. We already know that CDPR excels in other departments. I want to see them departure from the typical RPG gameplay where leveling and loot/armor determines the strength of your character. The weapon that you use or armor that you wear should not determine your strength, but should only supplement (like in real life). Geralt's primary strength should be his mechanical ability to fight like a real swordsman. If you're considered a skill player at the Witcher, you should be able to master every ability that Geralt has to offer, be it from his speed/dodge/parry/slashes/zoning/predicting/finding-weaknesses, when/where/who to use Ignis on, etc.
I guess I just want a real high ceiling skill based game. Here's what I meant by that.
Right now, there's no such thing as "I am really good at RPG games."
However, other genre has this skill ceiling:
- To be mediocre at FPS, you have to play non-stop for about a year to aim and shoot.
- To be mediocre at Fighting games, you have to play at least a few years. One year just to learn how to do special moves consistently. Another year just to learn how to do combos. Another year to learn how to execute things fast. And another year to master a few characters.
- To be mediocre at RTS games (like Starcraft) you need at least a year to reach 100 APM (actions per minute). Pros are at 400 APM. This does not include your multitasking or strategic abilities.
I'm not asking for these high level of skill since RPG is not a competitive game. But I would like the gameplay to have some sort of skill at least where you have to put in some time and effort to master those skills (preferably mechanical skills). Just because you found a good armor or weapon automatically gives you skill and power is kinda boring and not rewarding... However, if you spent your time practicing fighting with Geralt, learning how to anticipate/dodge/attack/use-spells perfectly and knowing your enemies strength and weaknesses; only until then you are a skill fighter. Otherwise you should always lose to a mob in hard difficulty, just like in other games.
Of course if you want to play the game for its story, just play in easy mode.
I just find it funny how Geralt does vertical slashes and the victim just splits in half horizontally. Either it's a really old build or their dismemberment system needs more refinement.
HERE IS WHAT I REALLY WANT FROM THE WITCHER SERIES GAMEPLAY.
I want to see real gameplay where the enemy actually has some AI implemented. Just walking forward slowly and randomly attacking is not a real AI. I want to see them fight like a normal person. They should be able to parry/dodge/flee just like Geralt. If Geralt missed or whiffed an attack, the enemy should punish him for that. If a mob is fighting Geralt, they should have some tactics/formations where they surround him and attack him at the same time, or whatever is the best fighting technique/formation. If the mob consists of two melee soldiers, three archers and a mage, the obvious formation would be melees fight close to Geralt or protect mage/archers, while archers stay back and shoot arrows and mage heals or use other spells... etc.
If they can add AI to NPCs, I don't see why they can't have some AI for gameplay.
CDPR should really focus on the gameplay. They have a long way to go if they want to departure from the typical RPG gameplay elements where mechanical skills are not required. We already know that CDPR excels in other departments. I want to see them departure from the typical RPG gameplay where leveling and loot/armor determines the strength of your character. The weapon that you use or armor that you wear should not determine your strength, but should only supplement (like in real life). Geralt's primary strength should be his mechanical ability to fight like a real swordsman. If you're considered a skill player at the Witcher, you should be able to master every ability that Geralt has to offer, be it from his speed/dodge/parry/slashes/zoning/predicting/finding-weaknesses, when/where/who to use Ignis on, etc.
I guess I just want a real high ceiling skill based game. Here's what I meant by that.
Right now, there's no such thing as "I am really good at RPG games."
However, other genre has this skill ceiling:
- To be mediocre at FPS, you have to play non-stop for about a year to aim and shoot.
- To be mediocre at Fighting games, you have to play at least a few years. One year just to learn how to do special moves consistently. Another year just to learn how to do combos. Another year to learn how to execute things fast. And another year to master a few characters.
- To be mediocre at RTS games (like Starcraft) you need at least a year to reach 100 APM (actions per minute). Pros are at 400 APM. This does not include your multitasking or strategic abilities.
I'm not asking for these high level of skill since RPG is not a competitive game. But I would like the gameplay to have some sort of skill at least where you have to put in some time and effort to master those skills (preferably mechanical skills). Just because you found a good armor or weapon automatically gives you skill and power is kinda boring and not rewarding... However, if you spent your time practicing fighting with Geralt, learning how to anticipate/dodge/attack/use-spells perfectly and knowing your enemies strength and weaknesses; only until then you are a skill fighter. Otherwise you should always lose to a mob in hard difficulty, just like in other games.
Of course if you want to play the game for its story, just play in easy mode.
Nearly everything you explained was present in the withcer 2, well at least regarding mechanical skill. I completely agree with you on the mechanical skill department. I also want to see more RPGs like that were it's more player based skill rather than stat based. The Souls series is the best example of these kind of games and the second best I would say was the Witcher 2, and so far from what I saw from all the gameplay videos of the Witcher 3, I'm certain it will deliver.
I disagree with you I think CDPR is very close to to deliver this kind of combat system, I mean how can you say mechanical skill is not required? In Witcher 2 on the harder difficulties you really had to think and use tactics to survive. It wasn't perfect, there was a lot of clunkiness and enemies were fairly predictable but at least it was a step in the right direction, and honestly it looks like the Witcher 3 is really going to have one of the best action RPG combat systems out there.
Go and compare the souls series and witcher 2 to games like Elder scrolls and dragon age. Those kind of game I whole heartily agree that very little player skill is involved, and your success is more based on your level and armor or weapon.
Well, what I thought times ago to put different AI for different monsters, humans would have a hell of an AI together with elves and dwarves, while irrational monsters anda nimals like wolves would have a terrible AI
Yeah, a burned shield really doesn't cost processing power, but complex AI is heavy
And they don't have much time for that
But we hope ;p
(Also the foglers/foglets way of fight requires some AI, no?)
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Okay, maybe I shouldn't compare it to the Witcher because it tries to stay away from those boring RPG gameplay elements. I was more comparing it to a typical RPG.
And no, even though I haven't played Dark Souls, I really think the gameplay is pathetic to say the least. They should really rename it to dodge ball, seriously. It's like playing dodge ball with the boss for 10min. Am I wrong to make this assumption? It might be a hard game, but hard does not equal good. It's basically just testing you how well you can dodge an attack.
Witcher 3 has the right gameplay elements but they need to make the enemies as smart as Geralt, or as smart as a player. Show some empathy towards the enemy. The enemy should be thinking: okay, we know that Geralt is powerful but we have the numbers to defeat him. Kinda like making the opposite role where Geralt is the boss and his enemies are the players (like an MMO where a bunch of players fight the boss, Geralt in this case). Now, what they should do is implement an AI that tries to beat Geralt after knowing his moves.
Ultimately, if I was to create the gameplay, I would make it very similar to a fighting game because of the complexity and the mechanic and the time you have to invest in a character in order to be skilled at them.
I think it takes way more processing power for the graphics than the AI. A simple IF statement shouldn't take that much bandwidth. Like: IF Geralt rolls, THEN run forward and attack. Not that hard. Fighting games with much more complex AI can do it more than 20 years ago.Well, what I thought times ago to put different AI for different monsters, humans would have a hell of an AI together with elves and dwarves, while irrational monsters anda nimals like wolves would have a terrible AI
Yeah, a burned shield really doesn't cost processing power, but complex AI is heavy
And they don't have much time for that
But we hope ;p
(Also the foglers/foglets way of fight requires some AI, no?)
Yeah, foglet is a great monster idea. They should have some monsters that camouflage as well, like the Predator. That would be cool.
And I agree, having smart AI and dumb AI is also good. But not all monsters/animals should be dumb. Wolves should at least know when to flee or wait for their pack to attack simultaneously. I think they should implement some sort of formation AI where a mob goes into a certain formation for tactical reasons. Just have a bunch of predefined formations and depending on the enemies/monsters, they will take that formation AI.
I could not disagree with you more about Dark Souls. The gameplay in Dark Souls is the pinnacle of melee combat, in Action RPGs. I've completed the game around 20 times now I think, and it still doesn't get boring because of the combat that's just so freaking good. I could go on an endless rant about why the combat is so good and the amount of depth it has, but I won't, unless you want me too. I'll just give you the short version: The combat in Dark Souls is good because it's very player base skill orientated like an action game but at the same time still require tactics and thought to win, unlike most action games.
I don't know why you would assume it's dodge ball the game, and what boss requires you to dodge for 10 minutes around the boss?. Either the person you watched playing the game was just to scared to attack and keep dodging or the person was dealing ridiculous low damage, and the difficulty in dark souls is way overblown. Hell Witcher 2 on hard is harder than Dark Souls. Dark souls is just very punishing and unforgiving, and with the right amount of challenge.
Regarding your point of testing you when to attack and dodge, Isn't that the most barest essentials in combat games? There's way more to it, but if you think about it any action game ever created is built around that concept. Knowing when to doge, block and attack is combat, I'm not sure how you would structure it otherwise.
I agree with you completely in regards to AI, I also really want to play a game with AI like that and very few action RPGs can offer that. But you keep comparing this stuff to fighting games and I'm not sure that's very valid or fair. The thing about fighting games is that while they require a lot of skill and has a lot of complexity most of the time you're limited to fighting one opponent in a 2d space. They can afford to have that much complexity, but as soon as you transfer that to a 3d space with multiple opponents things can get very difficult. I haven't played a lot of fighting games, only Tekken 5 and Mortal Kombat(the latest one), and I'm basing my judgment of, off those games, but I just can't see how that will transfer in a meaningful way to a game where we will fight multiple enemies at once. Typically in those games you have combos, blocks, counters, throws, jump attack and all sort of other stuff but how will you put that in a game like Witcher 3?
I mean I don't see Geralt launching a guy in the air and then jumping and slicing him while he stays there, or Geralt just grabbing a guy in front of him with a push of a button, stringing together complex combos that won't look ridiculous. There are certainly things that RPGs could take from fighting game, but not everything. Then again I have only played two fighting games my entire life so I could be completely wrong.
Dark Souls is an Action/JRPG. But is better to say that it is a dungeon crawl. It shouldn't be compared with The Witcher 3.
No, I'm sorry but Dark Souls is a an Action RPG that's heavy on the dungeon crawl, with a few unique elements, and it certainly isn't a JRPG . You can't compare Dark Souls to Witcher 1 because, witcher 1 is more of a stat based RPG. But you can definitely compare it to the Witcher 2 and the Witcher 3 because both of those are action RPGs.
Rolling has been replaced with pirouettes like how he fights in the books
So now it's spam-able pirouettes instead of spam-able rolling, 10 out of 10
While I don't share ilayoeli's snark, I agree with the general sentiment. So far it seems that the prime defense mechanic is unchanged aside from its animation. I can't recall seeing Geralt pirouette yet, and if you link me to a specific moment in the videos then it's the exception, while the rule remains that his main defense is dashing away. Essentially it's TW2's rolling, just not as unpleasant on the eye.
That being said, these are just impressions from videos, old ones at that, so it may feel different when playing and CDPR might still change both the variety in dodging visuals as well as the mechanics, so that they both limit the dashing as well as encourage other forms.
That being said, these are just impressions from videos, old ones at that, so it may feel different when playing and CDPR might still change both the variety in dodging visuals as well as the mechanics, so that they both limit the dashing as well as encourage other forms.
http://a.pomf.se/muaajq.webm
Also, you can block too. It's really up to you how much you spam the dodge.
Frankly I don't see the issue with the spammable dodge. Rolling non-stop wasn't even the most efficient way to play TW2, and you could only semi-abuse it because it had absolutely no invincibility frames, so even if you rolled, wrong timing still could get you clipped by the enemies attack even if the visual feedback on it was almost non-existent.
Anyone who legitimately believes spam rolling is "the best" way to play TW2 is objectively wrong. Yes, on the lower difficulties (Normal/Easy) you could somewhat abuse it, I'm not going to argue against that, but really my issue with the mechanic would only become a problem if it was the absolute most efficient way to play the game, and it's not. It more-so just acted as a crutch that would get you out of lots of situations and a really simple way of doing so for people who didn't quite understand the deeper mechanics the combat system provided.
What I've noticed in the Demos is that when you dodge your energy bar freezes. Now assuming that in the Normal mode version of the game that energy bar refills much slower, that means a dodge is basically pushing back the time until your next sign even further and many times actually using a sign is a far better option than dodging.
I think we'll have to wait and see when we get a more in-depth video which really properly explains all the combat changes, how the new energy works etc, but frankly I don't see the spammable dodge making a return as a big issue.
Anyone who legitimately believes spam rolling is "the best" way to play TW2 is objectively wrong. Yes, on the lower difficulties (Normal/Easy) you could somewhat abuse it, I'm not going to argue against that, but really my issue with the mechanic would only become a problem if it was the absolute most efficient way to play the game, and it's not. It more-so just acted as a crutch that would get you out of lots of situations and a really simple way of doing so for people who didn't quite understand the deeper mechanics the combat system provided.
What I've noticed in the Demos is that when you dodge your energy bar freezes. Now assuming that in the Normal mode version of the game that energy bar refills much slower, that means a dodge is basically pushing back the time until your next sign even further and many times actually using a sign is a far better option than dodging.
I think we'll have to wait and see when we get a more in-depth video which really properly explains all the combat changes, how the new energy works etc, but frankly I don't see the spammable dodge making a return as a big issue.
If you combine aggressive AI like we had in TW2 with group encounters, you better be able to spam dodge. There's no two ways about it. There's different dodge distances too, some short dashes, others where Geralt does a quick scuttle at various angles. Also look at the werewolf fight in the Polish footage. Geralt seems to pirouette around the werewolf at 24:50 and counters with an Aard. He does the same exact maneuver again at around 25:05 and stabs to the side. It looks like a perimeter based dodge mechanic. Of course in that fight he doesn't block once for some reason, he's whiffing half of his strikes and Geralt no longer closes the distance like in TW2. It appears you literally have to walk up to your foe to hit him.
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Wow, combat in this clip looks spectacular. Is it part of a longer video? Can you link it?
Frankly I don't see how this: http://i.giflike.com/zA3Pfp3 is less unpleasant on the eye than a roll.
CDPR should just slow down Geralt's dodges. It will make the combat play better and look better. Win-win