Combat in The Witcher 3

[moonknightgog]

Witchers used mostly pirouettes and doges, not rolls to evade attacks, sure, they might've from time to time, but not always or mostly.

In fact, I think that roll should consume a lot of vigor.

 

[ONLY_ONCE]

In fact, I think that roll should consume a lot of vigor.

I don't think it should, then in becomes a constant baby sitting game of hud elements, and that to me at least is no fun at all

 

[thislsmadness]

Witchers used mostly pirouettes and doges, not rolls to evade attacks, sure, they might've from time to time, but not always or mostly.

Right. Thats why they added a dodge. If you dont want to use the roll, you wont have to.

 

[ONLY_ONCE]

Witchers used mostly pirouettes and doges, not rolls to evade attacks, sure, they might've from time to time, but not always or mostly.

player choice!:victory:

 

[moonknightgog]

I don't think it should, then in becomes a constant baby sitting game of hud elements, and that to me at least is no fun at all

It's the only way to balance it and prevent a roll spamming. Which is damn OP.

 

[ONLY_ONCE]

It's the only way to balance it and prevent a roll spamming. Which is damn OP.

Yeah but there should be no need for that because players can choose to dodge, roll or use Q/shield It's up to players to spam the roll right?

 

[Bansai]

If you dont want to use the roll, you wont have to.

Actually I will have to, from the gameplay videos it doesn't look like you have a choice which animation you get, it looks like it's random and it looks like roll is preferred.

Look at angry clown video: https://youtu.be/lJpWBMH9EtQ?t=6m39s

Most of it is just rolling, and there's only 1 button responsible for dodging.

 

[theLaughingStorm.108]

You hold the button down for a roll. Press for dodge.

 

[Bansai]

You hold the button down for a roll. Press for dodge.

For real? Could you give me some quote on it? Cause that would be great info for me mate

 

[thislsmadness]

Actually I will have to, from the gameplay videos it doesn't look like you have a choice which animation you get, it looks like it's random and it looks like roll is preferred.

Look at angry clown video: https://youtu.be/lJpWBMH9EtQ?t=6m39s

Most of it is just rolling, and there's only 1 button responsible for dodging.

Its not random at all, you have complete control over whether you roll or dodge. They use distinct button presses.

You hold the button down for a roll. Press for dodge.

They actually changed it recently so that the "B" button dodges and the "a" button rolls.

 

[theLaughingStorm.108]

For real? Could you give me some quote on it? Cause that would be great info for me mate

Never mind, it seems it was changed to different buttons.

A= roll B= dodge

 

[EliHarel]

Actually I will have to, from the gameplay videos it doesn't look like you have a choice which animation you get, it looks like it's random and it looks like roll is preferred.

Look at angry clown video: https://youtu.be/lJpWBMH9EtQ?t=6m39s

Most of it is just rolling, and there's only 1 button responsible for dodging.

From the moment the noonwraith appears until Other Joe dies, I counted 18 dodge maneuvers. Out of those 18, only 1 (the first) was the side-step, and the other 17 were rolls (the last one was interrupted because he died). That alone hardly seems random.

Anyway, you choose when to side-step and when to roll. Maybe they changed the button configuration, but you have both options and it's up to you. It's been known for a while now.

Also, here's a side-step heavy fighting style:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLD8kwLMZ00&t=6m12s

Incidentally or not, she strikes me as the YouTuber who best fought as Geralt.

 

[thislsmadness]

From the moment the noonwraith appears until Other Joe dies, I counted 18 dodge maneuvers. Out of those 18, only 1 (the first) was the side-step, and the other 17 were rolls (the last one was interrupted because he died). That alone hardly seems random.

Anyway, you choose when to side-step and when to roll. Maybe they changed the button configuration, but you have both options and it's up to you. It's been known for a while now.

Also, here's a side-step heavy fighting style:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLD8kwLMZ00&t=6m12s

Incidentally or not, she strikes me as the YouTuber who best fought as Geralt.

Wow, no kidding. Proper dodges, parry, riposte w/ shoulder tackle, and shes not just spamming igni. Def going to check out that whole vid now.

 

[moonknightgog]

Yeah but there should be no need for that because players can choose to dodge, roll or use Q/shield It's up to players to spam the roll right?

But you can choose anyway. The difference is...why I should choose to dodge instead the roll, if the latter is more efficient and pratically free?

In Dragon Age Origins, there is an ice spell which is OP and with a really short cooldown. You can beat everyone using it.
Sure, you can choose to not use it, but the low balancement still remains.

Now, if roll would consume vigor, you'd still have a choice.
You can choose a free escape using dodge or, if you need a more efficient escape, you can use roll, but with a cost in vigor.

 

[thislsmadness]

But you can choose anyway. The difference is...why I should choose to dodge instead the roll, if the latter is more efficient and pratically free?

In Dragon Age Origins, there is an ice spell which is OP and with a really short cooldown. You can beat everyone using it.
Sure, you can choose to not use it, but the low balancement still remains.

Now, if roll would consume vigor, you'd still have a choice.
You can choose a free escape using dodge or, if you need a more efficient escape, you can use roll, but with a cost in vigor.

If an enemy attacks you, rolling 20 meters away and giving yourself no ability to counter is not efficient. Dodging and being able to strike while they are recovering gives you the advantage.

 

[Vigilance.492]

The difference is...why I should choose to dodge instead the roll, if the latter is more efficient and pratically free?

Because a Side-Step > Strike is far more effective than Rolling, and Rolling pauses your Vigor regeneration (The side-step might pause it too, haven't personally observed it, but the dodge is much shorter so it would be less pause).

As an example, if you watch AngryJoe's fight against the Noonwraith you'll notice he's rolling all over the place. The primary problem is that the only way to strike the Noonwraith is inside your Yrden circle, and so by the time he rolls away, recovers and goes back in for a strike, it has left the circle. However if he had used the side-step, he could have dodged its attacks the same, but kept it inside the circle and continued to execute strikes against it. It would have been far more efficient, and imo would have looked much better too.

Personally from what I've seen, I don't want to touch that roll button unless I absolutely have to in a situation where I need to cover a bigger distance, possibly to avoid some kind of mechanic (Like the big shockwave against the Golem in one of the vids), or just generally get out for a breather and regain my focus (As in real-life focus, not anything in-game).

 

[Sneky]

But you can choose anyway. The difference is...why I should choose to dodge instead the roll, if the latter is more efficient and pratically free?

In Dragon Age Origins, there is an ice spell which is OP and with a really short cooldown. You can beat everyone using it.
Sure, you can choose to not use it, but the low balancement still remains.

Now, if roll would consume vigor, you'd still have a choice.
You can choose a free escape using dodge or, if you need a more efficient escape, you can use roll, but with a cost in vigor.

Why do you think that roll is better than dodge ? U know, everything is OP when playing on easy. IMO dodge is better because is short and u can immediately counter.

 

[ONLY_ONCE]

:listen:I want to know the game pad controls for this now? They said they changed it after January build because players didn't like the dodge and roll on the same button I think it was annoying because they wanted to just dodge and if they held the button down they would roll instead. I'm curious how this will work and feel now, I also thought they changed fast attack to X and heavy attack to Y now? I guess we will see soon enough.

 

[Solid_Altair]

Its not suppose to be heavy. The books describe Geralt's swordwork as a dance, he has superhuman agility and his strikes are swift and precise. The "weight" that people feel in the Souls game is due to its heavy emphasis on slow attacks, animation lock, and enemies attacks that ignore "hit stun". That's because if the game didnt have those things then you could just hack away at enemies who have no way of defending themselves since 90% of them barely have any AI, they just cycle through attack patterns. thats partially why BB feels so much easier than the previous games. TW3 doesnt need to lean so heavily on those aspects because it has enemies that actually defend and evade.

For the record I think Souls combat is bloody brilliant, and I love it. I just think people need to stop trying to compare it to everything else out there.

But monsters do have poise in TW3, right? Specially the ones of human size or bigger, apparently. For this reason I think I'll prefer to fight humans. You attack, they either barely block (without animation, but lets not go into that) or get hit, until they actually block and stagger you, but you still have a chance to defend yourself and not take damage. Against monster, you gotta set things up more specifically and quickly defend after you attack. You pretty much can't use continuous melee attacks.

 

[theLaughingStorm.108]

But monsters do have poise in TW3, right? Specially the ones of human size or bigger, apparently. For this reason I think I'll prefer to fight humans. You attack, they either barely block (without animation, but lets not go into that) or get hit, until they actually block and stagger you, but you still have a chance to defend yourself and not take damage. Against monster, you gotta set things up more specifically and quickly defend after you attack. You pretty much can't use continuous melee attacks.

What do you mean without animation? The enemies do have a block animation.