Combat Stances in future Witcher games

[Witchercyberpunk]

After playing the Witcher 3 and Ghost of Tsushima, I found that the Roaming Monster Hunter and Roaming Samurai themes, gave me a similar vibe. What was lacking in The Witcher 3 was the combat. It was decent enough to be enjoyable but I feel like there could've been more depth. In Ghost of Tsushima, you have stances depending on the enemy you're dealing with. Shieldmen, brutes, swordsman, and Spearman. It creates more Variety & interesting gameplay. In a future Witcher game, I feel like this might be interesting. You have stances for human enemies(steel sword) and stances for Monster enemies(silver sword). It's kind of similar to how different signs are more effective towards different monsters. My main concern would be making sure that the system wouldn't be confusing or overwhelming. It's an idea that could probably be heavily flawed or may not work, it's just a random idea. What do you guys think? Any different suggestions?

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

Funny first Witcher game has Stances and it was great, but they throw all that away in second and third game, also Nioh have good Stances combat.

 

[Garrison72]

Abandoning the stance mechanic was a terrible idea but I think their combat design team for TW3 was minimal, so they couldn't get very ambitious. They really need to bring it back. For my money Nioh does it best. The stancess there add amazing tactical variety.

 

[0248991]

Hey,
cool topic

I think that combat was too simple in general. What I expected was about what had been shown in the trailers:

Like...some jumps and slides, fancy moves and stances, (break environment), cool sign usages, much better monster AI,...

Just look at how the wolves surround Geralt step by step, how he rolls in front of the cow-monster and burns its face, how the flying...things drop at him and he slashes them aside or how he sends a guy on the horse flying

Imagine if it would stay that fresh, unique and meaningful for the whole game...

 

[Wolfdemon200]

After playing the Witcher 3 and Ghost of Tsushima, I found that the Roaming Monster Hunter and Roaming Samurai themes, gave me a similar vibe. What was lacking in The Witcher 3 was the combat. It was decent enough to be enjoyable but I feel like there could've been more depth. In Ghost of Tsushima, you have stances depending on the enemy you're dealing with. Shieldmen, brutes, swordsman, and Spearman. It creates more Variety & interesting gameplay. In a future Witcher game, I feel like this might be interesting. You have stances for human enemies(steel sword) and stances for Monster enemies(silver sword). It's kind of similar to how different signs are more effective towards different monsters. My main concern would be making sure that the system wouldn't be confusing or overwhelming. It's an idea that could probably be heavily flawed or may not work, it's just a random idea. What do you guys think? Any different suggestions?

A stance system would probably be great

 

[Quote_97]

I have no experience with Ghosts of Tushima, but if we're talking about the Witcher 1 combat system, I would definitely not find that acceptable in a game that came out after 2011, it feels more like it belongs in a free-to-play mobile game than an RPG.

 

[CyberBobber]

Stances sounds so damn old-school to me. CDPR gotta be modern. Especially they have still their momentum going, CDPR is going up not down. Middle Earth Shadow of War isnt that old, and they have worked with Warner before. Yeah, I would take inspiration from newer games but thats just me.

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

Stances old school lol really??? nothing CDPR did with Witcher 2 and 3 combat is new or modern, even combat in CP2077 is nothing new or modern it is same FPS shooter crap seen so many time already.

 

[SigilFey]

After playing the Witcher 3 and Ghost of Tsushima, I found that the Roaming Monster Hunter and Roaming Samurai themes, gave me a similar vibe. What was lacking in The Witcher 3 was the combat. It was decent enough to be enjoyable but I feel like there could've been more depth. In Ghost of Tsushima, you have stances depending on the enemy you're dealing with. Shieldmen, brutes, swordsman, and Spearman. It creates more Variety & interesting gameplay. In a future Witcher game, I feel like this might be interesting. You have stances for human enemies(steel sword) and stances for Monster enemies(silver sword). It's kind of similar to how different signs are more effective towards different monsters. My main concern would be making sure that the system wouldn't be confusing or overwhelming. It's an idea that could probably be heavily flawed or may not work, it's just a random idea. What do you guys think? Any different suggestions?

This was something from TW1 that went away and I greatly miss it. You used to have 3 different stances that you could switch between at any point, and each had its own, unique moveset. There was style for general, one-on-one dueling. There was the group style which did less damage but struck multiple targets all around Geralt. And the strong style, which was used to crack through armor, deal bursts of damage, and stagger strong opponents. Coupled with the alchemy system, bombs, oils, and signs...this was an extremely robust system. (Although, I think a lot of people didn't care for it for a few reasons. It was pretty complicated, and not necessarily intuitive. It also required a mix of pausing to issue commands like Baldur's Gate, then executing a few attacks in real-time while attempting to time strikes to gain critical hits like an action game. It was a unique but fairly awkward system.)

A better analog for the future would be Jedi Academy. That game was incredibly versatile with the way it handled lightsaber combat. You were free to mix fast, standard, and strong stance with a button click. Not only was the moveset and style totally different between each...but each style also contained contextual moves...and they offered different movesets based on whether you were using a single sabre, dual sabres, or double-bladed sabres -- each of which could be switched to single-sabre mode at any time -- and it allowed players to combine Force powers with the standard combat. Terming this combat system "versatile" is a bit of an understatement.

 

[CyberBobber]

Stances old school lol really??? nothing CDPR did with Witcher 2 and 3 combat is new or modern, even combat in CP2077 is nothing new or modern it is same FPS shooter crap seen so many time already.

Cyberpunk isnt same old crap as far I know. Theres "smart guns" that change the combat quite bit especially if AI uses them too. You gotta move and do, or you get shotted. You cant no longer stay behind corners and camp them etc. Thats modern thinking. Also I believe Cyberpunk's combat is "fast-paced" thats modern too. Fast-paced combat started to come back with APB, Quake, and Doom etc. Series like Battlefield, Counter Strike, PG and Call of Duty is the same old crap imho, not that Ive played them in long time.

BTW, CDPR is totally different what they are now and what they were during Witcher 12and 3.

Speaking of stances, I remember that debate goes all way to the 90s. But it seemed game industry chose to go with "classes" or something like that. I cant really remember.

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

Smart guns are just guns that have aimbot activated all the time, is not some new great thing they just discovered, also you compare MP games with SP games you can't do that, and camping depend from game mode in games like SC, Rainbow Six Siege where objective is plant/defuse bomb, you going to camp to prevent other team to get to objective, in Battlefield and Call of Duty if you camp you are dead if you play against a capable players, maybe is little easy in Battlefield since maps are bigger and you play sniper, but then again that is a point of sniper to camp and kill from distance.

And about stances, you have stances in real life to, any martial art have stances it is core element of it, any weapon fighting style have stances, that is not something pull out of thin air just for sake of games, Nioh 1 and 2, Ghost of Tsushima both have stances and melee combat is much better more interesting and realistic.

 

[CyberBobber]

Smart guns are just guns that have aimbot activated all the time, is not some new great thing they just discovered, also you compare MP games with SP games you can't do that, and camping depend from game mode in games like SC, Rainbow Six Siege where objective is plant/defuse bomb, you going to camp to prevent other team to get to objective, in Battlefield and Call of Duty if you camp you are dead if you play against a capable players, maybe is little easy in Battlefield since maps are bigger and you play sniper, but then again that is a point of sniper to camp and kill from distance.

And about stances, you have stances in real life to, any martial art have stances it is core element of it, any weapon fighting style have stances, that is not something pull out of thin air just for sake of games, Nioh 1 and 2, Ghost of Tsushima both have stances and melee combat is much better more interesting and realistic.

[Edited for tone -- SigilFey] you call CDPR for making crappy shooters and yet you suggest they should copy Ghost of Tsushima?

I think Middle Earth combat is good to take inspiration from. Witcher for me sounds more like a hack and slash than realistic one or tactical. Not that I know Witcher Universe that well.

Btw, this thread heated up, thats why I think they should do two combats.

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

First i didn't say they need to copy Ghost of Tsushima, but yes gameplay in CP2077 is like any other shooter nothing new or interesting, and if stats don't even affect your shooting and accuracy then that is even bigger shame since is not RPG like they say.

I don't have problem with you, but saying stances are some old school mechanic that need to be thrown out is just wrong.

 

[Draconifors]

The thread has nothing to do with Cyberpunk. Stay on topic.

 

[drona.667]

I have been suggesting the stance system ages ago, especially since NioH arrived. Basically to stay in line with the lore while having a much more depths in combat system, my personal design for a proper Witcher combat system would be:

MELEE WEAPON TYPES
+ Different weapon types that would bring different movesets & techniques & combos.
+ Having multiple weapon types, or in this case multiple "sword types." such as:
- Longsword: basically the default of Witcher games.
- Dual arming sword & dagger: Agile & straight forward type. Imagine Cat School Witcher style.
- Greatsword: Not slow, heavy stamina, big sweep attacks, like a proper IRL greatsword. Imagine the Odachi from Nioh games.
- Rapier: pretty much what you expect from rapier style. stab stab stab
- Saber (turkish/polish saber): have a unique style of turkish & polish saber MA.
- Swordstaff (Svärdstav): the sword-like Scandinavian polearm weapons, similar to nagamaki or partisan or pudao. Half stick & half blade/sword.
- hand to hand: basically a separate albeit unique kick boxing & grappling attacks.

RANGE WEAPON TYPE (CROSSBOW ONLY)
+ normal uniform attacks, long range.
- Heavy Crossbow: slow draw, high stamina, devastating attack, default possible knock back damage
- Normal crossbow: normal draw, normal stamina, default possible penetration damage
- repeating crossbow: fast, draw low stamina, able to make a repeating shots.
+ different type of bolts, just like Witcher games & Nioh games.

WITCHER ARTS / STANCE SYSTEM TREE
+ It's not as complex as Nioh, but still have the opportunity for different combos & switch stance techs.
+ New combat stances, consist of 2 stances & a special attacks being switchable based on Witcher schools:
+ base stances: set of combos that is switchable during combat
- duel moveset: combo attacks focus on single enemy (no twirls moves). Upgrade to level 3.
- group moveset: combo attacks focus on multiple enemy (yes twirl moves) Upgrade to level 3.

+ Special attacks: a new moveset, replacing "strong attack" moveset. It consists of 5 movesets based on Witcher schools. attack use Adrenalin rush. It can only toggle replace between each different special attack.
- Wolf School: combo attacks focusing on close range. Upgrade to level 3.
- Cat School: combo attacks focusing on fast & agile attacks. Upgrade to level 3.
- Griffin School: combo attacks focusing on grouping or crowd control. Upgrade to level 3.
- Bear School: heavy devastating 1-2 attacks. Upgrade to level 3.
- Manticore School: a stinger-like attacks (watch DMC), stab forward to close distance. Upgrade to level 3.
- Viper School: quick draw attacks. Upgrade to level 3.

MAGIC SIGN TREE
+ The same with other Witcher games, it will have the 5 basic magic signs.
+ Like Witcher & Nioh games, each signs will have unique form of casts, like powerful magic attacks, defensive magics, buffs, & debuffs.
+ It will have some additional alternate signs that could be offensive or defensive.

+ Aard sign
- Aard Sweep: normal aard sign, powerful sweep knock back on 30 degree, medum to long range. Upgrade to level 3.
- Aard Shockwave: 360 degree radius aard sign, close to medium range. Upgrade to level 2.
- Aard trap: aard sign that cast early to ground as trap, enemy that triggered will be knock back/down. Upgrade to level 3.
- Aard aura: self buff aard sign that increase attack & dodge speed. upgrade to level 3.

+ Yrden
- Yrden sloth: debuff cast on enemy that slow their overall speed. upgrade to level 3.
- Yrden dome: yrden sign trap that slows enemies who enter its area of effect, medium range. Upgrade to level 2.
- Yrden line: yrden sign trap on long line area of effect. medium to long range. Upgrade to level 2.
- Yrden aura: self buff yrden sign that will make attacks imbued with stagger effect.

+ Igni
- Igni fireball: igni sign that cast a big fireball, close to medium range. Upgrade to level 3.
- Igni fireballs: igni sign that cast 3 fireballs, medium to long range. Upgrade to level 3.
- Igni firestream: igni sign that case a concentrated stream of fire, close to medium range. Upgrade to level 3.
- Igni aura: self buff igni sign that will make attacks imbued with fire damage. Upgrade to level 3.

+ Quen
- Quen shield: normal quen sign, fully imbued yourself with a protective shield for certain duration. Upgrade to level 3.
- Quen parry: a quen sign that will cast an electrical damage to enemy from a succesful parry. Upgrade to level 3.
- Quen explosion: a quen shield that will pushes enemy back upon break. Upgrade to level 2.
- Quen aura: self buff quen sign that will make attacks imbued with electric damage. Upgrade to level 3.

+ Axii
- Axii charm: charm target, potentially disarming/eliminating target from combat from fear. Upgrade to level 3.
- Axii delusion: axii sign that confused targets, become non aggresive in combat. Upgrade to level 3.
- Axii puppet: axii sign that control target to attack each other. Upgrade to level 2.
- Axii aura: self buff axii sign that will make casting sign much faster. Upgrade to level 3.

WITCHER GADGETS (RANGE WEAPONS) TREE
+ Bolos: throwing weapon that cold trap & damage target, medium range only. Upgrade to level 3.
- Steel bolos: types of bolos for non monster target, including normal animals.
- Silver bolos: types of bolos for monster target.
+ throwing spikes: throwing weapon that could be imbued with oils or made from different metals. Upgrade to level 3.
+ Bombs: similar types to Witcher games. a throwing weapon. Upgrade to level 3.
+ Lures: Just like Witcher 2, items that can lure monsters for a period of time. It can be throw or place on surface. Upon consumption, it can give effects to target depending on the lures.
+ Fishing net: tool for fishing

UNDERWATER COMBAT
+ can only use melee weapons with base stance, no special attacks.
+ can use crossbow
+ can use throwing spikes, bombs, & lures.


#SIDE NOTE ...
+ I would love to see a mount attack system like Monster Hunter or Dragon's Dogma, but I can't see it could work well in relation to stance system. Need some ideas for that.
+ I would love to see an organ targeting & dismemberment system for "weakness," via witcher sense, to make fight a lot more creative, especially in boss fight. For examples: The Surge games, Monster Hunter games.

 

[pangagamer91]

I haven't played the first or second games, but have seen several discussions about the combat stances. I also agree that the battle mechanics need to be expanded; not just for armed combat, but also unarmed combat. I personally would like to see a variety of CQC options added, mainly because several quests trigger bare handed fights against enemies. I also think they should've utilized environmental obstacles more. You can take advantage of swamp gas and explosive barrels in some areas to down enemies, however, the game world is littered with objects that you should be able to knock enemies against or slam them into such as crates, tables, bookcases, walls, overturned wagons, etc. I also think they should implement sub weapons such as daggers and throwing knives so that the player can take advantage of stealth and quick attacks. Also, the witcher simply doesn't have a decent range of motion. Not only can you not crouch, you can't jump while in combat, and the dodging is terrible. I think for starters, they need to include the following motions: side stepping, pivoting, vaulting, shoulder throws, and roundhouse kicks.