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Nars

Nars

Moderator
#361
Jun 29, 2014
Also to elaborate a little further. I do like idea of real time combat, but character skills and augmentations must impact combat in some way. Cybernetic eyes can modify your hud, make you see through wall/mist etc. Simple weapons should be approachable by any class, as we can assume everybody should know how to fire a pistol.

The best way to approach real time combat is making hindering factors a big deal. Lets make shotgun recoil ridiculously high for untrained person, lets make crosshair swing as hell because sniper rifle we just picked up is too heavy for us, lets make the weapon jam/or fail after every few shots if PC don't know much about maintaing this energy based sophisticated piece of weaponry. Lets make reload time uncomfortably long. But if my Media have a gun and is shooting a unaware guy from 2 m let me kill this dude, without dice roll to confirm my hit.
 
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Reactions: Lolssi83.811, Sardukhar and vongo.859
A

asume5

Rookie
#362
Jun 30, 2014
I don't know if it's going to be first person or third person view but i'm hoping for at least real time combat.
 
Vincentdante

Vincentdante

Forum veteran
#363
Jun 30, 2014
suhiir said:
I have no problems with using a crosshair or mouse movement to initiate or indicate the target of an attack. Like Nars said I also dislike where my attack with a bullet (as opposed to melee where the opponent may have dodged or parried - and that's rarely represented in combat animations) totally misses a target at point blank range. If you're going to have a cosshair type shooting system then don't totally ignore it when an opponent is in melee range and being 5-10 degrees off center in any direction is meaningless.
But I don't want the timing and exact position of the crosshair to be the sole determining factor in hit/miss. Because that totally invalidates character skill and makes it entirely player dependent.

Let character skill make the valid target area larger, give you more time to aim, increase the probability of significant damage, any or all of the above. Or perhaps some other factor(s) that make your characters skill as opposed to yours as a player significantly influence the outcome of combat (ignoring that perhaps player tactical decision may, or may not, have an effect). It's not an either/or solution, you can blend player and character skills into combat. Sure, inevitably one or the other with be a larger factor but you don't need to ignore one or the other completely.
Click to expand...
I'm on the side of the fence that calls for a more player dependent system (because I too have felt the sting of a stats based impossible to miss but still missed situations). But I do agree with this and think there can certainly be a compromise, I look forward to seeing how CDPR approach this.
 
D

dragonbird

Ex-moderator
#364
Jun 30, 2014
asume5 said:
but i'm hoping for at least real time combat.
Click to expand...
It will be, of that you can be certain.
 
thewarsend

thewarsend

Forum veteran
#365
Jun 30, 2014
I want to kick people trough walls, can i do that? :D
 
Suhiira

Suhiira

Forum veteran
#366
Jun 30, 2014
thewarsend said:
I want to kick people trough walls, can i do that? :D
Click to expand...
If it's standard interior drywall sure, and augmentations aren't even needed.
 
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thewarsend

thewarsend

Forum veteran
#367
Jul 5, 2014
suhiir said:
If it's standard interior drywall sure, and augmentations aren't even needed.
Click to expand...
Even if it is a standard interior dry wall, why not use some of them expensive augmentations? It is only fun...
 
S

Sasza

Rookie
#368
Jul 5, 2014
suhiir said:
If it's standard interior drywall sure, and augmentations aren't even needed.
Click to expand...
Well actualy I think you would be stuck with your foot inside the wooden or light steel framework of the wall rather than reach anyone on the other side of the wall... But thats just my observation :D

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHUMZsIPXRc" target="_blank">


Even here. These were normal door and he would still be stuck with his leg in them now imagine kicking through the wall... any kind of wall... Good luck without any enhancments..
 
Last edited: Jul 5, 2014
L

Lolssi83.811

Rookie
#369
Jul 7, 2014
That looked like plywood or some other crap. Who (even interior) makes doors that weak? I know that door is fine in normal use, but never seen door that weak before. I'd assume hinges would give in before your leg would go through door normally.
 
V

vongo.859

Rookie
#370
Jul 7, 2014
It didn't even look like plywood. It looked more like corrugated cardboard. It was probably a prop... if you pause at 0:18 when he is swinging the door around you might see what I mean.

I agree though. While I understand the limitations, it would be nice to see the environment being as destructible as possible. If something can't be broken, at least demonstrate visible damage to it.
 
Nars

Nars

Moderator
#371
Jul 7, 2014
Lately Rainbow Six Siege showed some impresive indoor destruction. It really does change the way you think about shootouts.

Of course I'm fully aware that there is no way that CP2077 will have such sophisticated destruction system (if any), but one can dream.
 
Last edited: Jul 8, 2014
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S

Sasza

Rookie
#372
Jul 7, 2014
Nars said:
Lately Rainbow Six Siege showed some impresive indoor destruction. It really does change the way you think about shootouts.

Of course I'm fully aware that there is o way that CP2077 will have such sophisticated destruction system (if any), but one can dream.
Click to expand...
Wow this is some really impressive gameplay here. The tactics, the destruction, communication with outside forces/snipers - nice!
 
Suhiira

Suhiira

Forum veteran
#373
Jul 8, 2014
Nars said:
Lately Rainbow Six Siege showed some impresive indoor destruction. It really does change the way you think about shootouts.

Of course I'm fully aware that there is o way that CP2077 will have such sophisticated destruction system (if any), but one can dream.
Click to expand...
Some of the bullet holes looked pretty good, some a "tad" excessive; and the door breaching could use a bit of work.
But overall not too shabby.

I'd much rather see something like Rainbow Six be about gathering intel and performing the perfect breech, such as the opening scene where they first rescued the hostage and the bad guys never knew what hit them. But I understand it's an FPS so of course you have to have a few dozen bad guys materialize out of thin air just to keep it exciting.
 
Maelcom404

Maelcom404

Senior user
#374
Jul 8, 2014
I doubt CP77'll have a that-much intense demolition level, but something close would be badass.
I also hope the fighting style mechanics will be well handled, having a bunch of combos and a few "tricks" by style, so you just have to choose which one fits your playing style the most.
 
Suhiira

Suhiira

Forum veteran
#375
Jul 8, 2014
Really no such thing as "combos" in PnP CP of course. Not to say they couldn't add some but I can't see any reason to as that's just Action Game or PvP "flash" that only exists to give players some buttons to push so they can do Hollywood/James Bond/Bruce Lee style "fancy moves" no one has ever seen or used in real life.

Pick your target, squeeze the trigger, hope your round(s) hits. That's really all there is to it.
Maybe a bit boring as a game but PLENTY exciting RL!
 
L

Lolssi83.811

Rookie
#376
Jul 8, 2014
spider_jerusalem said:
Wow this is some really impressive gameplay here. The tactics, the destruction, communication with outside forces/snipers - nice!
Click to expand...
About that communication it's the same group that Ubisoft used in Division videos and I believe those are pre-recorded voices. In actual game it would be propably something more in the lines "I'm so baked" or "You guys suck we lost because of you!" :p

I also thought some of the destruction was bit over the top.
 
Harthwain

Harthwain

Rookie
#377
Jul 8, 2014
spider_jerusalem said:
Wow this is some really impressive gameplay here. The tactics, the destruction, communication with outside forces/snipers - nice!
Click to expand...
I thought that all involved were the players (hence the communication), snipers included, on both sides (including terrorist team)? However, given how developers make game look better than at release (Dark Souls 2, Watch Dogs) I won't hold my breath for all this destructable environment. They'll probably remove it for the sake of consoles as they can't reach the performance level of PCs.
 
Nars

Nars

Moderator
#378
Jul 8, 2014
Safe-r said:
I thought that all involved were the players (hence the communication), snipers included, on both sides (including terrorist team)? However, given how developers make game look better than at release (Dark Souls 2, Watch Dogs) I won't hold my breath for all this destructable environment. They'll probably remove it for the sake of consoles as they can't reach the performance level of PCs.
Click to expand...
The destruction is key element around which all game have been designed, so I really doubt Ubi will get rid of it.

http://youtu.be/e5hPx6iu4Vw?t=43s

Also 2:45.
 
Maelcom404

Maelcom404

Senior user
#379
Jul 8, 2014
suhiir said:
Really no such thing as "combos" in PnP CP of course. Not to say they couldn't add some but I can't see any reason to as that's just Action Game or PvP "flash" that only exists to give players some buttons to push so they can do Hollywood/James Bond/Bruce Lee style "fancy moves" no one has ever seen or used in real life.

Pick your target, squeeze the trigger, hope your round(s) hits. That's really all there is to it.
Maybe a bit boring as a game but PLENTY exciting RL!
Click to expand...
I said that in the way of "something more exciting than mashing a button to punch for 3hours straights".
There will be time when you'll have to use your punch (no more bullets, or being in a place where you can't fire at all, like filled with explosives or in a plane, etc...), and as much as gunfight, "hand to hand" fighting will have to be somewhat nice to handle, You're right when you say that no one use "combos" in RL, but at the same time, no one just do the same punch over and over lol, I doesn't need a whole mechanics around, just a few special to throw your enemies, disarm them, or put them on the ground, a kick button, a punch, and that's it, with a few combos that you could learn as your skill goes up, wich would be helpfull to pressure your enemies, not a "combo" like in a fighting game, but being able to throw more than "1punch at a time" as your skills goes up

Just make it "fun" to fist-fight, there is no way all the combat system would go in gun-fight and nothing for the hand-to-hand or the melee weapon.
The same for the melee weapon, someone with 1 in sword skill should just hack and slash, but once you're a Pro (10), I'd think you should be able to do cool stuff with your sword (mostly if Monoblades are there, who never wanted to play a cyber-ninja? lol), just look at a bruce lee or Jet Li movie, look at how they move fast, etc... that's the kind of stuff i'm talking about, not turning it into a beat em all, but to have a feeling that "I'm doing martial art" more than something like GTA where you have to mash your button to fight (in fact, it shoud look like this when you have no skill in fist-fight)
But, If i've no more bullets and a few kung-fu skill, I'd be able, if not to kill, at least to kick the ass of a guy with a high level.

Combos weren't in the pnp, IMO mostly because you don't "really" see what you're doing, just as for the cyberspace, having some martial art needs to give you some ability, like throws if you do catch, cisors kicks if you do tae-kwon-doe, quick punch, etc... If you do karate, etc... just having a wide variety of style, with each on his own "capacity", that's how it was handled in the pnp after all, CDPR just need to refresh this, because there is no way you can't do better stuff as your martial art skill grows up, IMO choosing what kind of martial art you want to do should be as much important than choosing what kind of gun you want or what kind of hardware you'd like to use.
 
Last edited: Jul 8, 2014
Harthwain

Harthwain

Rookie
#380
Jul 8, 2014
Nars said:
The destruction is key element around which all game have been designed, so I really doubt Ubi will get rid of it.
Click to expand...
Light and dark was supposed to be a key element in design of the game in DS2 (which was confirmed by developers), and we all know how this ended. Ubisoft turned off graphics options for WD - it was basically the same thing as DS2 - and when players reached them what happened? Ubisoft patched the game to remove that option entirely from the players. Way to go. It shows very clearly that promises - or even tech already in place - means nothing until the game is delivered to the masses. Until then it's as reliable promise as DS2 and WD promises were.
 
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