Combat system

[Suhiira]

I'm skeptical about it being non-party based simply because if they stick to CP2020 rules (more-or-less) no single character can do all the things you'll need.
In the Witcher series character skills were really only about different ways to approach combat. CP2077 will probably include a lot of combat but I seriously doubt it'll be a a combat focused game.

Cop - Always handy (maybe not essential but damn useful)
Corporate - Access to the folks that REALLY run the world of Cyberpunk (maybe not essential but damn useful)
Fixer - Access street-level info and black market equipment (will probably be handled by NPCs providing missions and equipment)
Media - Influence the working classes (probably not essential)
Netrunner - "Hacker"
Nomad - Combat and access to info/equipment from outside the city (maybe not essential but damn useful)
Rocker - Influence the masses (probably not essential)
Techie - Medic and/or electronics/mechanic (maybe not essential but damn useful)
Solo - Combat specialist

The could of course go the Elder Scrolls route and allow your character to become a demigod, max every skill in the game, but doubtful they'll go this route.

 

[Calistarius]

Resurrecting a near-dead thread here.

I'm currently playing a game called "7.62 High Caliber" with the Blue Sun mod (both available on Steam - cheap).
A team/party-based combat game/simulation.

While the combat system isn't FPS it is real-time with pause, quite realistic, very lethal, and has a number of very VERY nice features I could spend hours on.

Seriously someone at CDPR needs to be made aware of this game and try it out, if the combat system for CP2077 isn't finalized yet there is a gold mine of ideas and inspiration here!

If you want to know more about the game here are an excellent set of non-spoiler game guides:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EImEO8Y-h5Q

Mmm... the Brigade E series. I love those games. And I have talked about them befor on this very forum... atleast I am certain I have... I tend to bring them up almost everywhere when it comes to pc games. XD

There is 4 of them to my knowledge:

"Brigade E5: New Jagged Union".

"7.62 High Caliber", aka "Brigade E6".

"7.62 mm: Reload", aka "Brigade E7".

"Marauder", aka "Man of Prey", aka "Brigade E8".

All of them used to be difficult to get a hold of, but E5 and E6 are on Steam now. And I also just today found Man of Prey on Steam as well (which was the name I thought was the main name for the game... turns out it's Marauder). Man of Prey used to be the most difficult to get a hold of, shortly followed by Reload... but Reload seems to not be available at Steam though, and as such would be the most difficult to get a hold of. I recall having to use fan made english mods for Reload and Man of Prey, since I belive both of them only had Russian audio.

But yeah... these games are in my opinion the most realistic game I have ever played when it comes to most things... be it that every single action you can make will take different amounts of time, weapons speed of use (draw, fire, reload, aim, etc) is different depending on which weapon it is, and most of that can be effected by your characters statistics and skill in a weapon, weapons can get broken, dirty, and have missfires and failed reloading etc due to it, etc. All bullets fired by weapons (be it single ammo stuff, or multiple ammo ones like shotguns), fragmentation from grenades and explosives, etc, are all actual things in the game... which means that if your character is quick enough (usually not the case unless it is a really long shot), they can get out of the way. Pretty realistic inventory system combined with carryweight. The game has hit locations (with some being more vulnerable then others), wounded leg and your slower, wounded arm and you might not be able to use a 2h weapon, sight and hearing that can be effected by various things (flashbang and your character will temporarily lose their vision and hearing for example... shot in the head = same thing with varied severaty), the characters can bleed from wounds, with first aid and other such materials needed to stop it. Your character also has a heart+adrenalin monitor thing (as your adrenalin goes up, your reaction and speed of firing weapons goes up, but lowes your accuracy with the weapon), getting hit, shot at, round a corner to find 5 enemies standing right there, and some other things as well, can raise your adrenalin levels. And some several other realistic things. Most real world stratagies and tactics do to some extent actually work in this game.

It is a game that does take time though, especially the combat part of it will take a lot of your time... since even a single hit from most weapons can be devestating if your unlucky (or do not have strong enough armour to deal with it... although even small calibre stuff can screw you up... a quick pistol can essentially stunlock an enemy with to good armour).So if you do not like micromanagment in games, then this game is definatly not for you.

It's definetly a game series that is not for everyone. XD

 

[Suhiira]

Mmm... the Brigade E series. I love those games. And I have talked about them befor on this very forum... atleast I am certain I have... I tend to bring them up almost everywhere when it comes to pc games. XD

<clip>

It's definetly a game series that is not for everyone. XD

Yeah, definitely a tactical game vice a shooter. If you like fast and furious this is NOT the game for you.
But there are so many things they got "right" it's well worth a look if you're designing a game that uses firearms.

About my only serious complaints are the ungodly opposition, they regularly hit with standing snap-shots from handguns at 50m and I regularly miss with prone aimed shots from a rifle; the way the opposition always charge down your throat before you can get a shot off; and I think the rifles overheat too fast (handguns and MG's seem OK tho).

 

[ShinGnosis]

This topic is a hard one. CDPR has a lot of experience with sword combat right now but nearly nothing when it comes to guns, so I think it would be dangerous to make a game that focuses to heavily on ranged combat and gunplay.

I think better make a melee combat focused game (ceramic swords, vibroswords, power hammers, electric whips, stun batons, electric nets, power fists, sound waves, shield upgrades etc etc). You could make the argument that in NC most enemies have so good armor that bullets won't work anymore, or you'd need a very big gun which would be unwieldy. A submachine gun would be fast and agile enough but would do minimal damage.

In any case Witcher 3 is so good because they let the story take center stage, it's about creating a living breathing world and telling a story. I don't want CDPR to focus too much energy on getting guns to feel right since they don't have that much experience with it. It's better if the combat system grows naturally from what they know.

 

[Suhiira]

I don't expect first class, and certainly not FPS quality, shooting mechanics. This is suppose to be an RPG not a shooter so they will, and should, take second place at best.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

This topic is a hard one. CDPR has a lot of experience with sword combat right now but nearly nothing when it comes to guns, so I think it would be dangerous to make a game that focuses to heavily on ranged combat and gunplay.

I think better make a melee combat focused game (ceramic swords, vibroswords, power hammers, electric whips, stun batons, electric nets, power fists, sound waves, shield upgrades etc etc). You could make the argument that in NC most enemies have so good armor that bullets won't work anymore, or you'd need a very big gun which would be unwieldy. A submachine gun would be fast and agile enough but would do minimal damage.

In any case Witcher 3 is so good because they let the story take center stage, it's about creating a living breathing world and telling a story. I don't want CDPR to focus too much energy on getting guns to feel right since they don't have that much experience with it. It's better if the combat system grows naturally from what they know.

I disagree. CDPR is a capable bunch. They shouldn't just cave in with the mold they've created for themselves, they shouldn't just make another Witcher draped in a Cyberpunk dress. They should branch out from their current comfortzone, and more over branch out from the current trends in that guns feeling "right" doesn't mean how every other 1st/3rd person shooter and those posing as an RPG's feels. They should have a clearly distinguishable gameplay intent and design - as per the CP 2020 rules to what ever extent they can utilize it - and a combat system crafted to suit that, "guns feeling right" being relative to that. Not a dedicated shooter, but an RPG with shooting where the RPG comes first and the shooting second as governed by the RPG.

They have the capability and ambition to grab the bull by the balls and say "we're doing something a bit different this time, and we're going to make it work". They should try push the genre forward; and enhance their own knowhow and versatility.

And as an addenum, combat was the weakest part of Witcher 3.

 

[Sardukhar]

They should have a clearly distinguishable gameplay intent and design - as per the CP 2020 rules to what ever extent they can utilize it - and a combat system crafted to suit that, "guns feeling right" being relative to that. Not a dedicated shooter, but an RPG with shooting where the RPG comes first and the shooting second as governed by the RPG.

They have the capability and ambition to grab the bull by the balls and say "we're doing something a bit different this time, and we're going to make it work". They should try push the genre forward; and enhance their own knowhow and versatility.

And as an addenum, combat was the weakest part of Witcher 3.

Traitor. I really liked the combat and found it my second favourite bit, after the writing and before the setting and world. And waaaaay ahead of things like crafting or sidequest structure or map cohesion or NPC AI outside of combat or whatever.

I would like it a lot if they tried what you are suggesting - although avoid all that crappy old style retro turn based crap, so 90s - something fresh and Cyberpunk..but they tried that with Witcher 1 combat, timed swings, etc, and lots of people didn't like it. Enough lots of people to throw it out for W2.

I, of course, liked W1 combat. Also W2 combat. But really preferred W3 combat. Highest diff, you had to watch it or die.

Trick was not to die. Otherwise, you could screw up as often as you liked!


CP2077 combat should -somehow- reflect the skills of the character, abso-goddamn-lutely. Absolutely.

Cyberpunk is a skill-based game, there are no levels. So someone with a high Handguns skill and a High Cool stat -should- feel in control in a firefight. Likewise someone with Combat Sense 4 and whatever. To these players, combat should be exciting and dangerous, but manageable.

They should rock all over someone whose character does -not- have those skills and stats. Not so much in a MP situation, but certainly in terms o gameplay feel.

Now, someone with Handgun 2 and Cool 5 or Combat Sense 1 or 2, they should feel out of their depth, panicked, scared and like the world is coming apart around them when combat happens. The fun should be the loss of control, the horror, the desire to escape. Really kind of a mini-horror-game.

I would like, as a player, to experience combat very differently on my Rockerboy than on my Solo. I want the former to be fun in a run-run-hide kind of way, while loud sounds and bright flashes kill people that didn't do that around me.

On my Solo, I want combat to be a pressure-cooker high-speed chess game. Sometimes in cover, sometimes aggressively pushing into the enemy, sometimes breaking my own attack flow in order to disrupt the enemy AI and catch it off guard.

This is a big order in a world where combat game systems tend to go either shooter or turn-based or the occasional hybrid that satisfies few, but I think it's worth the attempt.

 

[ShinGnosis]

I disagree. CDPR is a capable bunch. They shouldn't just cave in with the mold they've created for themselves, they shouldn't just make another Witcher draped in a Cyberpunk dress. They should branch out from their current comfortzone, and more over branch out from the current trends in that guns feeling "right" doesn't mean how every other 1st/3rd person shooter and those posing as an RPG's feels. They should have a clearly distinguishable gameplay intent and design - as per the CP 2020 rules to what ever extent they can utilize it - and a combat system crafted to suit that, "guns feeling right" being relative to that. Not a dedicated shooter, but an RPG with shooting where the RPG comes first and the shooting second as governed by the RPG.

They have the capability and ambition to grab the bull by the balls and say "we're doing something a bit different this time, and we're going to make it work". They should try push the genre forward; and enhance their own knowhow and versatility.

And as an addenum, combat was the weakest part of Witcher 3.

I see your points, and they are not bad. I certainly believe CDPR could pull it off it they wanted to.

But I would argue that there are, and have been, enough gun focused RPG games already. It's not an innovative formulae at this point. I personally believe I would prefer something which isn't focused around guns, and if that means melee combat with sword-like weapons or something more like the biotics in Mass Effect I think I'd prefer that. The thing is also that if they're going to do guns I'd strongly prefer to have access to a first person view like in a real FPS. In general I hate over-the-shoulder shooters, it feels so lazy and casual.

And as for combat being the weakest part of Witcher 3 I'm not sure I agree. I enjoy the Witcher 3 combat quite a bit and I think the hybrid builds that rely on swords, signs and potions are the most fun. I'm using a mod that allows me to bind the signs to hotkeys (with two on my mouse) and it's completely changed how I play. I can roll, lay down yrden, roll, igni, attack with swords, quen shield etc etc. It's very fluid and there's a lot of variety, even after hundreds of hours of gameplay I'm not bored yet.

But if CDPR already are intent on using guns (a design decision might very well have been made already) I recommend they play and look closesly at Fallout NV by Obsidian. To my mind that game has the best gunplay mechanics and upgrade mechanics of any "RPG shooter" I know. They should also check out Far Cry 4 since that game is semi-RPG and had absolutely stellar first person view and gunplay mechanics. Very fluid and fun game to play. Mass Effect 3 might also be worth a look, pretty good gunplay mechanic in that one. It's over the shoulder but zooms to a first person view, making it acceptable for me. My favorite is the infiltrator build and there could be some really good inspiration there for Cyperpunk.

So, if they're going to do guns I'd like it to be like Far Cry 3 & 4 (with more RPG in it) or like Mass Effect 3 Infiltrator. That would make for a good game. But overall I think it could be more interesting to do something which isn't so gun focused. Witcher 3 combat is interesting since it's more about dominating an area than hiding behind crates and sticking your head up at the right time, that kind of gameplay is almost cliché at this point and I'd be careful to not fall into that old routine. We don't want gears of war, that would be horrible.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Traitor. I really liked the combat and found it my second favourite bit, after the writing and before the setting and world. And waaaaay ahead of things like crafting or sidequest structure or map cohesion or NPC AI outside of combat or whatever.

And as for combat being the weakest part of Witcher 3 I'm not sure I agree. I enjoy the Witcher 3 combat quite a bit and I think the hybrid builds that rely on swords, signs and potions are the most fun.

Yeah, I know. I'm not a team player.

It was fun at first, but I felt it became too repetitive way too early. It's a result of several things, the biggest of which is how disproportionate the games size and scope are in comparison to how varied its gameplay is (which is to say, pretty poor). The itemization was also all over the place with things leveling up little by little (which also made crafting dull despite the huge amount of recipes and blueprints), and that being tied to the character progression (level requirements) which honestly felt inconsequential for the most of it led to a combat experience that felt too samey throughout despite the occasional challenge spikes.

I got bored out of my mind before I even got to Skellige. The well done narrative design, writing and beautiful vistas only carry the game so far. When the bulk of the gameplay (let's say 2/3's) is hoofing over empty (or emptied) terrain and hacking things to pieces through repetitive mechanics and ecnounters, it does start to carry its toll in the long run. And I don't think even the most firebrigade fan would say no to a bit of variety.

It's not a bad game, and I intend to finish it someday (I'm taking a creative break to let the feeling of repetition ease up). But I think it is a game whose shortcomings jump a bit too eagerly and too glaringly to my face from under the good stuff.

But that's that about Wiedźmin 3.

I would like it a lot if they tried what you are suggesting - although avoid all that crappy old style retro turn based crap, so 90s - something fresh and Cyberpunk..but they tried that with Witcher 1 combat, timed swings, etc, and lots of people didn't like it

Don't you insult the brilliance of turnbased combat you.... you... insolent uncultivated buffoon, you.

More seriously, though...
I know a lot of people don't really like W1 combat (though I still remember how disappointed I was when they ditched it for W2 after having showed it off in some early demo). But one has to remember that that was the design almost 10 years ago. Absolutely nobody wants that to be copied verbatim anywhere. But that isn't to say the core idea couldn't be retooled to better suit modern design and presentation desires. And more so, even, when keeping in mind that this is a completely different game we are talking about. The encounters won't be long drawn out rythmic clicking with occasional sidestep (at least I hope they ain't). There's a world different design possibilities to make things interesting, varied and challenging; and to take into account and rectify the pitfalls of close-quarters only combat of a fantasy game.

CP2077 combat should -somehow- reflect the skills of the character, abso-goddamn-lutely. Absolutely.

Cyberpunk is a skill-based game, there are no levels. So someone with a high Handguns skill and a High Cool stat -should- feel in control in a firefight. Likewise someone with Combat Sense 4 and whatever. To these players, combat should be exciting and dangerous, but manageable.

They should rock all over someone whose character does -not- have those skills and stats. Not so much in a MP situation, but certainly in terms o gameplay feel.

Now, someone with Handgun 2 and Cool 5 or Combat Sense 1 or 2, they should feel out of their depth, panicked, scared and like the world is coming apart around them when combat happens. The fun should be the loss of control, the horror, the desire to escape. Really kind of a mini-horror-game.

I would like, as a player, to experience combat very differently on my Rockerboy than on my Solo. I want the former to be fun in a run-run-hide kind of way, while loud sounds and bright flashes kill people that didn't do that around me.

On my Solo, I want combat to be a pressure-cooker high-speed chess game. Sometimes in cover, sometimes aggressively pushing into the enemy, sometimes breaking my own attack flow in order to disrupt the enemy AI and catch it off guard.

This is a big order in a world where combat game systems tend to go either shooter or turn-based or the occasional hybrid that satisfies few, but I think it's worth the attempt.

Yes. Very much.

It is a tall order, yes. But an ingenious designer can make stuff work (I don't really believe people are as rigid as it seems, people like and tolerate many things at the same time; a different story is, if the thing is completely haphazard in what it tries to do, but that applies to all design). Good design will find its audience. And disappointments will be mitigated if people are clearly informed what to expect (eg. "this is not a shooter").

I see your points, and they are not bad. I certainly believe CDPR could pull it off it they wanted to.

But I would argue that there are, and have been, enough gun focused RPG games already. It's not an innovative formulae at this point.

...snip...

To be quite honest, majority of RPG's and ARPG's around these days are about swordfighting and magic. Once you delve into the realm of action games, you get hordes over hordes of FPS titles all similiar to each other, and there it applies to say that "gun focus" isn't anything new. And I think even New Vegas went too far in that direction (not to mention Fallout 4 which now closer to a Far Cry game than an RPG). That, though, not the direction I'd want for Cyberpunk combat (first person shooter - third person shooter), we have those kinds of games as much as there is sand in Sahara. What ever the perspective, I'd want the combat to be designed around the idea that this is actually trying to be an RPG that draws from its PnP heritage. Not so that it cuts corners when it comes to combat (leading for us to get a shooter with some RPG elements at the side).

 

[Suhiira]

I guess I can't fault game designers too much. The short-attention-span FPS crowd is a VAST majority of the market and they dislike how role-playing and having to make decisions that matter interfere with their game-play.
Mores the pity ...

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I guess I can't fault game designers too much. The short-attention-span FPS crowd is a VAST majority of the market and they dislike how role-playing and having to make decisions that matter interfere with their game-play.
Mores the pity ...

Personally, Im inclined to believe there is actually a sway in the market towards RPGs over the last 6 years or so. I mean 10 to 15 years ago EVERYONE was making FPS games, back in the days of the first Medal of Honor and Battelfield 1942...

Oh God, was it really that long ago?

Counterstrike 1.2... why did you leave me?

 

[RepHope]

This topic is a hard one. CDPR has a lot of experience with sword combat right now but nearly nothing when it comes to guns, so I think it would be dangerous to make a game that focuses to heavily on ranged combat and gunplay.

I think better make a melee combat focused game (ceramic swords, vibroswords, power hammers, electric whips, stun batons, electric nets, power fists, sound waves, shield upgrades etc etc). You could make the argument that in NC most enemies have so good armor that bullets won't work anymore, or you'd need a very big gun which would be unwieldy. A submachine gun would be fast and agile enough but would do minimal damage.

In any case Witcher 3 is so good because they let the story take center stage, it's about creating a living breathing world and telling a story. I don't want CDPR to focus too much energy on getting guns to feel right since they don't have that much experience with it. It's better if the combat system grows naturally from what they know.

How will they ever get good if they don't try? Sure the combat will probably be janky at first, just compare ME1 with ME3, but over time they can improve. Plus this is the time for them to really branch out, and try for something completely different to what they're used to. Cybernetics and guns offer up tons of customization options, CDPR should embrace that, not shy away from it.

I'm expecting the combat to be a mix between Deus Ex: HR and the ME series, since both of those are RPGs that involve the use of guns as well as biotics/augs. Both of those series offer a pretty good guess I think of what CDPR is going for. I seriously doubt turn base gameplay is coming back, they ditched it for good with W2, and there's no reason to think it's coming back. Particularly when they've talked about "adapting" the combat to fit a video game.

 

[moonknightgog]

I don't expect first class, and certainly not FPS quality, shooting mechanics. This is suppose to be an RPG not a shooter so they will, and should, take second place at best.

That is allowed only if the quest design has multiple branches that allow you to avoid any kind of combat (with the right classes and perks) for the entire game.
I don't want "The Witcher 3 with guns". I hope it won't be like that.

---------- Updated at 12:34 AM ----------

Now, someone with Handgun 2 and Cool 5 or Combat Sense 1 or 2, they should feel out of their depth, panicked, scared and like the world is coming apart around them when combat happens. The fun should be the loss of control, the horror, the desire to escape. Really kind of a mini-horror-game.

I would like, as a player, to experience combat very differently on my Rockerboy than on my Solo. I want the former to be fun in a run-run-hide kind of way, while loud sounds and bright flashes kill people that didn't do that around me.
.

Gameplay wise, the only thing that is near to your description is the "suppression fire system" in Red Orchestra 2. Which would be really cool.

---------- Updated at 12:47 AM ----------

I guess I can't fault game designers too much. The short-attention-span FPS crowd is a VAST majority of the market and they dislike how role-playing and having to make decisions that matter interfere with their game-play.
Mores the pity ...

Ok, but that is not the market CDP should want to sell their product.
If they want to make an RPG, with a PnP RPG license, they should try to reach the RPG audience, which is different.
Otherwise, just...cut it out. Don't sell it as RPG, but as FPS or TPS.

 

[Suhiira]

Unfortunately these days any game that allows you to select skills; be they as simple as specializing in rifle vs SMG; or where a character "levels" is classified as an RPG. I don't personally classify Borderlands 2 as an RPG but that's how it's advertised.

 

[moonknightgog]

Unfortunately these days any game that allows you to select skills; be they as simple as specializing in rifle vs SMG; or where a character "levels" is classified as an RPG. I don't personally classify Borderlands 2 as an RPG but that's how it's advertised.

Yeah, I know. I bought Borderlands cause I tought it was an RPG. But it wasn't. And that made me really angry, it's basically a fraud.
If you want appeal the RPG crowd, you can't sell them an FPS with no role-playing elements. And it's the same if you want to appeal the shooter fanbase, cause they don't like RPGs.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

CP2077 combat should -somehow- reflect the skills of the character, abso-goddamn-lutely. Absolutely.

Continuing a bit on this train of thought and the stuff about Witcher 1 combat... Somehow, yes. But how without leaving it as a sort of "fanservice"?

They could (and I've suggested this before) utilize the sort of player controlled target lock mechanism.
- Move the cursor to an enemy,
- press and hold a dedicated button to lock on him,
- start shooting at base accuracy (according to the PC's relevant skill and other modifiers -- missed shots go past the target and hit what they hit behind him), as if hipfire.
- or. hold on to the focus to gain accuracy bonus (again, according to all the relevant modifiers) for few seconds at a time so as to simulate the mechanic form 2020 where you (iirc) sacrifice a turn for better aim. (representing the use of ironsights or for eg)
- Default ain for torso; move mouse towards a direction of other bodyparts to focus on them (with relevant accuracy penalties).
- Have a tactical pause feature for observing the situation (and possibly for utilizing some specialities, what ever they might be).
- Have combat situations focus on short and fast skirmishes instead of long drawout "trench warfare".
- Untargeted firing without any other indication where the bullet might go than where the PC is facing.

All in real time. Pretty actiony (like CDPR porbably wants it to be - remembering their comments on this topic) due to player still needing to maneuver and switch targets (+other actions). Yet still very much rooted to the RPG mechanics due to the player not being the one who's aiming (like in a normal action game). All consistent with the characterbuild without the oddities that come into play if they-

-do it the more conventional way where the skill governs spread and recoil distortions ("I aimed right at him, why did I miss?" being the commong complaint). Though which I wouldn't mind at all provided that the system has the balls actually depict a PC with horrible aim (each skillpoint giving a hefty bonus to accuracy), unlike most games where there's just some slight penalty that one hardly even notices (to keep the FPS crowd happy).


I honestly can't figure out how it could be made to work in a satisfactory way with keeping the action fluid like in an action game without going for the sort of HP attrition design (skill giving bonus damage, enemies being more or less bloated with HP), but that goes against the spirit of the source material by throwing the lethality of combat in the river, and would in general be a fucking awful way of designing it.

 

[Garrison72]

Kofi there is no way they're going with any type of pseudo turn-based combat where stats override player skill. You might as well kiss half of your audience goodbye. Alpha Protocol got raked over the flames for that and rightly so. Those systems are for top down traditional RPGs, not FP or TP combat. The whole point of these views is to enhance the illusion of being there, and feeling like you are in control. I still cite ME2 and DeUS Ex: HR as admirable combat systems that utilized solid RPG mechanics. If I were on the team, those games would be a sort of launching pad into what they plan for '77. And then I'd look at core shooters like Shadow Warrior and BF3 for tight and responsive shooting mechanics.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

There is absolutely nothing turnbased, pseudo or otherwise, in my post.

But anyway, if the "point" is about being in control (rather than playing they character you are given to build and play), they could just aswell dump the RPG mechanics (away from disturbing the experience of "being in control") and just create a full on honest to god action adventure (and call it for what it is). I don't care what Alpha Protocol was raked for, nor how some other more action oriented game did their combat - that was those games back then, not this one. When the talk is about an RPG, I expect the gameplay - all of it - to work and feel as if I am actually playing an RPG instead of some otherworldy halfbreed whom nobody really knows what it is when all is said and done.

The mainstream doesn't like RPG's becuase they don't play like your every saturday action games. I'd like CDPR to try to push the envelope and bring a decent RPG gameplay back towards the mainstream, like it used to be in some distant past, instead of caving in and kneeling in front of the already bloated FPS market where every game is, for all intents and purposes, the same.

It is more risky than just doing what everybody else does, but nothing new will ever happen if nobody does it first.

If that doesn't happen to any measureable degree, well, too bad. There are other games, even if not as anticipated as this one.


Edit.

I understand it might not appeal to absolutely everyone, but then, I don't think all games should try to either. And even so, if it is well done (we know CDPR has a knack for quality), it will find its audience -- I don't believe people in general are quite as rigid as it seems on the outset (they are just excessively offered the easy solution).

 

[Suhiira]

I strongly doubt its even possible to make a system that combines player skill (FPS) and character (RPG) without so many compromises all you manage to do is piss off both sides.
My advice to CDPR is pick one or the other and do it well.

 

[Lazerlatte]

Honestly all I can think of for an ideal combat system would be having extreme depth in terms of RPG mechanics under the hood without making it immediately recognizable as an RPG in the midst of action. Perhaps something like Fallout 3/NV crossed with Morrowind (with less terrible balancing and mechanics for a modern day game) and of course as much of the PnP game made into video game form.