Combat system

[Tarathelion]

Oh deer god, some people are just beyond help. Non of the "problems" that you listed are objective. There is no point comparing W3 combat to bloodborne or dark souls as these games are completely different (souls games are no even rpg's , just combat driven action games). Just because somebody disagrees with you gonna call all witcher fan clueless ?

 

[Mebrilia]

Well i never considered combat in dark souls or bloodborne to be good... In the end is a game where you can instant swirch from a spoon to dual wielding double huge maul in a blink to of the eyes.. In fact there are more trolls in dark souls or bloodborne pvp session then in any other game.... Also is a system incredible easy to highjack where you can make builds so ridicolus that are beyond overpowered...

Comparing witcher 3 with those game is beyond stupid since they are two complete different games.. Also cyberpunk have his own system of stats and skill that will be adapted to real time gameplay...

I get that many people loves Dark souls and Bloodborne but not every game have to use that combat system that is not flawless like many points it to be...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WVriP1pQyY

 

[yyb0568]

Oh , useful criticism NOT from game's "fanboy". Witcher definitely has lots of issues in it's gameplay/combat area. One a half years over, there still a lot of post complain about how "bad" it is. I think it almost biggest feedback CDPR ever received.

Witcher is over, no matter how bad or "good" it is it's OVER.It's time for Cyberpunk, this game will has totally different game mechanics. So I don't think witcher's experience is useful to cyberpunk, especially I seriously doubt it will be a first person game (Although personally hope it will third person).

However one thing from these criticism I think is really useful, that's from technology implemention layer instead of the design layer, sometime it has a good idea however bad in implement. Make controls more smooth, make action/motion animations more response, make hitbox more accurate etc. these basic technology issues are what CDPR seriously need to solve/improve. NO matter how good idea is, if it cannot or bad in implemention it's all EMPTY. I think CDPR is open-minded they already realized all those criticism from witcher, if that useful they will take in.

Personally I think the lead designer Kyle Rowley join in is a good beginning, let's just wait and see how far CDPR will go after witcher.

 

[Sardukhar]

Hey, this is a thread for CPunk combat talk. I don't mind a little diversion, ( or even a lot) but using it to sound off on your hatred for or love of, other games is likely to nettle me.

Not that I mind loving other games and using them for inspiration, but let's avoid flamewars and whatnot. Oh, and splat! Cloak Division - We Mean Business.*


























*Borrowed from SLA Industries - my OTHER favourite Dark Future Game.

 

[Suhiira]

Yeah, that one, among the biggest sources of my concerns since... that thing was fresh out. There's good stuff there too, but...

Favorite quote:

"We certainly want to avoid the situation where your combat capabilities is that much dependent on the stats, it's about your own skill."
Bad vibes, man. Baaad.

Also confirms that it won't have that retro vibe 2020 has anymore (didn't remember that one).

Yeah I too am not at all thrilled by that comment. Making it not an RPG but a typical FPS would ruin CP2077 for me personally. I know some people would love that however.

---------- Updated at 09:05 PM ----------

There is no point comparing W3 combat to bloodborne or dark souls as these games are completely different (souls games are no even rpg's , just combat driven action games).

Actually I disagree. Constructive comparison and contrast is a good thing. Just to say one sucks and another is great without saying what makes one good and the other bad and why it was good/bad is however pointless/useless.

 

[Medhundy]

A mix of combat from Gears of War, MSGV, Splinter Cell and Dues Ex(newer ones) would be great if CDPR want to make CP a third person shooter rpg hybrid.

 

[cyberpunkforever]

i'd really like to see the effect of famage on enemies, for exampl an injured nmy bleeds or moves slower or you can see the injuries or part of its body falls apart, not the enemies having 15 health and they look and move and perform as when they have 100% health,

 

[Suhiira]

i'd really like to see the effect of famage on enemies, for exampl an injured nmy bleeds or moves slower or you can see the injuries or part of its body falls apart, not the enemies having 15 health and they look and move and perform as when they have 100% health,

Well if they use the CP2020 PnP rules that won't be a problem!

 

[PillarBiter]

I've never done any cyberpunking, but I am curious how they're going to adapt a pen and paper system to real time combat action.

Most looked forward to game in a long time!

 

[Suhiira]

I've never done any cyberpunking, but I am curious how they're going to adapt a pen and paper system to real time combat action.

Most looked forward to game in a long time!

You're assuming the game will be some sort of real-time FPS, while you may be correct remember CP2077 is suppose to be an RPG.

 

[PillarBiter]

I've never done any cyberpunking, but I am curious how they're going to adapt a pen and paper system to real time combat action.

Most looked forward to game in a long time!

You're assuming the game will be some sort of real-time FPS, while you may be correct remember CP2077 is suppose to be an RPG.

No YOU are assuming I'm assuming that. Which is nowhere near the truth. Read my post more thouroughly and don't use other people's posts for your own posting-agenda.

I said combat. action. This may take any form it wants. I'm going to let them surprise me

 

[CodeJBDA]

I feel like there aren't enough 3rd person games in this setting (I could be wrong). Normally games like these are 1st person and while cool, it would be a nice change. Oh wait I just remembered Mass Effect and Deus Ex (kinda), but otherwise, I can't think of any.

Either way depending on how deep the melee is, I think a 3rd person would be great, because I find that very rarely does first person combat work.

Then again, in the year 2077, how many people have fists fights, I reckon they just blast each other to hell and back. I reckon CDPR are smart enough to know this and will stick to a predominantly shooter combat system with stealth. BUT please please please don't give us these tight corridor spaces, make the levels expansive !

 

[Suhiira]

Actually most RPGs are top-down/three-quarter/or third-person ... in other words any perspective but first-person. It's just the shooters/action games that call themselves RPGs because they have some sort of levelling or skill system that are all first-person.

 

[metalmaniac21]

Actually most RPGs are top-down/three-quarter/or third-person ... in other words any perspective but first-person. It's just the shooters/action games that call themselves RPGs because they have some sort of levelling or skill system that are all first-person.

Witcher senses tells me there's also Josh Sawyer hiding behind you with glorious "dungeon crawlers aren't real rpgs".

 

[Suhiira]

Witcher senses tells me there's also Josh Sawyer hiding behind you with glorious "dungeon crawlers aren't real rpgs".

Naw ... he learned it from me!

Any game where you play a character can be an RPG, all it requires is character stats/skills be used in place of player ones whenever practical. Sure the player still selects the weapon to be used and the target but the shooting itself is based on the character.

 

[Sardukhar]

Any game where you play a character can be an RPG, all it requires is character stats/skills be used in place of player ones whenever practical. Sure the player still selects the weapon to be used and the target but the shooting itself is based on the character.

No, we did a poll on this. Around these parts, you need choice and consequence to be an RPG. No role-playing, ( i.e. no pretending to be osmeone else in a world where that matters) and you could be playing turn-based Doom. Or Xcom. Or Fallout Tactics.

This replace-physical-skills-with-character skills does not make an RPG. Not to mention, people are more than their twitch skills. You'd also have to replace brute strength, endurance, social skills and wits, if that was the standard.

It's not the standard.

Role-playing is about pretending to be someone else in a world that helps you with that pretense. The degree it helps you is the degree of RP you can do.

Not if you are allowed to use fine motor movement during combat or if you are clever enough to pick the dialogue choice the most benefits you or smart enought o build a "viable" character.

 

[Suhiira]

No, we did a poll on this.

Maybe I went too KISS.

But yeah, "Role-playing is about pretending to be someone else in a world that helps you with that pretense."

 

[Sardukhar]

Maybe too KISS too far.

But yeah, "Role-playing is about pretending to be someone else in a world that helps you with that pretense."

And, of course, in a milieu where combat is SO CENTRIC, allowing twitch to be so dominant -really- detracts from the role-play.

Especially when AI is still stupid, maps are still small, environments are fixed and options are few.

A CRPG like Fallout 2, ( still incredibly simple compared to PnP) : you can negotiate with the drug dealers, you can waste them ( with yoru very combat built character regardless of your own skills), you can sneak past them, you can seduce them, you can co-opt members of their faction. Off the top of my head, how to deal with the Jet dealers.

Now, even in my beloved Witcher 3, how many of those were really options? 3? If that. I never could talk the Baron out of his issues or torture him for his information, or seduce him, or talk a follower into doing it for me.

Now take something like, oh, Diablo 3. "Action Role playing." Bwahahahaha! No. "I kill. I kill some more. Wait....I sneak...damn. Time to kill."

 

[Suhiira]

A CRPG like Fallout 2, ( still incredibly simple compared to PnP) : you can negotiate with the drug dealers, you can waste them ( with yoru very combat built character regardless of your own skills), you can sneak past them, you can seduce them, you can co-opt members of their faction. Off the top of my head, how to deal with the Jet dealers.

Now, even in my beloved Witcher 3, how many of those were really options? 3? If that. I never could talk the Baron out of his issues or torture him for his information, or seduce him, or talk a follower into doing it for me.

Now take something like, oh, Diablo 3. "Action Role playing." Bwahahahaha! No. "I kill. I kill some more. Wait....I sneak...damn. Time to kill."

Yep, when you come down to it options in how you handle stuff is the core mechanic of any RPG. As you said "I kill. I kill some more. Wait....I sneak...damn. Time to kill." is an action game not an RPG.

 

[AdamTaylor]

I definitely hope that combat is based almost entirely on character development and design and has very little to do with "player skill". If they make it just another stupid shooter... that's going to completely destroy the game. And honestly, defeats the purpose of even bothering to make an RPG.

I mean, look at Bethesda's shooters with an RPG skin like Fallout 3 or Skyrim. Player skill is the defining factor in those games. Doesn't matter how you build your character, or where you focus their points, your skill as a player is what matters. If you have the skill, your character with no combat skills will still completely slaughter enemies in combat without even trying. Which essentially defeats the purpose of having character development in the first place.

If they do that for this game, I'm definitely not buying it. I have enough shooters. I am looking for an RPG. A game that's based entirely on the design and build of my character, not my skill as a player.

I would like to see a turn based combat system for this game. Something that makes full use of character stats and abilities. My chance of hitting an enemy should be entirely based on how I built my character, NOT on whether or not I have the twitch skills to hit a moving target.

It should basically be the PnP ruleset put into 3D.

A good example is Tower of Elemental Evil. It's a D&D game, with pretty weak story, but by far the best implementation of the PnP rules ever. Combat is all turn based. Characters move based on initiative, you have your move distance for walking or running, you can take a free 5-foot-step, your attacks are all by the rules along with attacks of opportunity and everything. It was amazing to play.

I would like to see the same for this game. Combat starts, the game pauses and everything should go by the numbers. You move as you would be able to in the PnP, distance, speed, cover, chances to hit and number of attacks... all of it.

I really hope this game will end up being an RPG and not just another shooter with some RPG features slapped on.