Combat system

[Garrison72]

My experience involves ME1, ME2, SR3, SD, TR and the like. If all those games suck ass, then what constitutes good gun play? Presuming that is even possible, because many gamers think it should be FP only. I'm lost. I don't have the experience to judge, I guess. What constitutes good gun combat? I know good melee. I'm not sure I understand good gun combat because I've never really gotten into the COD and BF3 series. I get the sense that if a first person shooter doesn't mimic those games, it sucks.

 

[gregski]

BF3 might have good gun combat, but let's not forget that even if CP2077 was supposed to be first person, it will never reach BF3's level. There's a reason why BF3 is as shooter and CP2077 will be, you know, a role-playing game.

I also played the games you mention, I played Gears, and I don't want to beat a dead horse, but MP3 really was a discovery for me regarding how good gun combat can be in third person perspective.

It allows precision, each gun has a different feel, the cover system is fluid and not overused and all the different animations(both for Max and the enemies) really show how third person adds to the experience.

 

[Sioclya]

My experience involves ME1, ME2, SR3, SD, TR and the like. If all those games suck ass, then what constitutes good gun play? Presuming that is even possible, because many gamers think it should be FP only. I'm lost. I don't have the experience to judge, I guess. What constitutes good gun combat? I know good melee. I'm not sure I understand good gun combat because I've never really gotten into the COD and BF3 series. I get the sense that if a first person shooter doesn't mimic those games, it sucks.

In my experience, gun combat is always better in first person, and also easier to do there. I haven't played a COD game and only 2 games from the BF series (Bad Company 2 and Battlefield 2), but from my experience (BF games, that is) they really aren't bad games. Especially where combat is concerned (which applies to Bad Company 2 only, because BF2's combat aspect wasn't all that good). Blacklight:Retribution (and not Revolution as it is sometimes falsely called on these forums) has some good gun combat, too. And those people were on a pretty tight budget, considering that their first game (Tango down) didn't do very well.

Tomb Raider 2013's gunplay was partially pretty good. I couldn't bring myself to like the assault rifle, but the Pistol, Shotgun and bow were neat. Sounded pretty good, felt good to shoot.

Mass Effect 1 had some interesting ideas, it just didn't execute them very well. Mass Effect 2 had good combat, though. With the execution of ME2 and the gun tech from ME1, it would have been a lot more interesting, but EA are determined to make everything into either an FPS or a TPS, which ends up pretty badly.

I only played SR2 on PC, and could never like it due to the horrible port (don't tell me "SR2 was better in every respect", it won't mean anything to me). SR3 was reasonable, most automatic guns felt like shooting paper clips though. The only thing I liked were the armor-piercing pistols (why they were still that loud even after getting sound supressors, I have no idea).

 

[fchopin]

I don't like first person as it spoils the game for me. I only play third person games.

I tried Skyrim and third person view was rubbish in the game so only played for a few hours same as the fallout games. That is not what i call third person view.

If this is a first person view game then i will probably buy the game and play it for a few hours before i give up and go find another game.

 

[Sardukhar]

Boggle.

Really. The PERSPECTIVE spoils games for you. Wow. This means you missed:
Bloodlines,(same problem as Skyrim, weak TPS)
System Shock 1 and 2,
Deus Ex 1 and 3,
Undying,
Stalker,
every Half Life,
both Portals,
all the Halos,
Jedi Knight and it's pre/sequels,
Amnesia and it's prequels,
Thief,
Call of Duty when it was good,
Morrowind, ( if you didn't like Skyrim pers),
Counterstrike,
any of the Battlefield games,
Tribes,
Far Cry 1 to 3,
Any and all of Doom and Quake,
Crysis,
F.E.A.R.,
Unreal Tournaments galore,
Bioshock 1 to 3,
Goldeneye,
N.O.L.F,
Turok,
Wolfenstein,
and whatever else I forgot.

Sucks.

 

[braindancer12]

Boggle.

Really. The PERSPECTIVE spoils games for you. Wow. This means you missed:
Bloodlines,(same problem as Skyrim, weak TPS)
System Shock 1 and 2,
Deus Ex 1 and 3,
Undying,
Stalker,
every Half Life,
both Portals,
all the Halos,
Jedi Knight and it's pre/sequels,
Amnesia and it's prequels,
Thief,
Call of Duty when it was good,
Morrowind, ( if you didn't like Skyrim pers),
Counterstrike,
any of the Battlefield games,
Tribes,
Far Cry 1 to 3,
Any and all of Doom and Quake,
Crysis,
F.E.A.R.,
Unreal Tournaments galore,
Bioshock 1 to 3,
Goldeneye,
N.O.L.F,
Turok,
Wolfenstein,
and whatever else I forgot.

Sucks.

nice list you made Sardu

 

[fchopin]

Boggle.

Really. The PERSPECTIVE spoils games for you. Wow. This means you missed:
Bloodlines,(same problem as Skyrim, weak TPS)
System Shock 1 and 2,
Deus Ex 1 and 3,
Undying,
Stalker,
every Half Life,
both Portals,
all the Halos,
Jedi Knight and it's pre/sequels,
Amnesia and it's prequels,
Thief,
Call of Duty when it was good,
Morrowind, ( if you didn't like Skyrim pers),
Counterstrike,
any of the Battlefield games,
Tribes,
Far Cry 1 to 3,
Any and all of Doom and Quake,
Crysis,
F.E.A.R.,
Unreal Tournaments galore,
Bioshock 1 to 3,
Goldeneye,
N.O.L.F,
Turok,
Wolfenstein,
and whatever else I forgot.

Sucks.

Yep, the only game i play on your list is Bloodlines, don't have any problem with that game.

 

[Garrison72]

Well, now you have me curious Gregski. I'd try out Max Payne if weren't for RockStar's DRM and huge install. I used to dislike FP but FO3 and Oblivion changed my stance.

 

[gregski]

Well, now you have me curious Gregski. I'd try out Max Payne if weren't for RockStar's DRM and huge install. I used to dislike FP but FO3 and Oblivion changed my stance.

Well, that, yeah. I got Max Payne 3 on Steam and apart from Steam DRM there's also Rockstar Social Club. Install took me 3 days. But it was worth it, it's a good game and now I can see how CP2077 ranged combat system could look like.

Maybe one day you will be able to try it from GOG

 

[Sardukhar]

3 DAYS? I recall some small difficulty, but nothing special. That's some terrible install luck. I installed RSC for LA Noire recently. Little issue, nothing serious.

Edit: also, the TP in Bloodlines sucked hard. Similar to Skyrim and the TES/Beth games. Hell, melee in BL you run at people waving your sword off to the side and slash in the most hilariously awkward attack ever! And let's not talk about fist fighting. Ughh.

BL makes TES games look animation slick.

Skyrim:

Bloodlines melee:

Don't get me wrong: I love Bloodlines and like Skyrim. But come on! The combat system and animations in Skyrim is a heck of a lot more advanced than Bloodlines, which consists of run up and slash clumsily, intersperesed with some poor blocking if you want. Not that you really need to, it's pretty much all mad slashing.

And you look like you are directing traffic with that sword.

 

[d1am0ndback]

BF3 might have good gun combat, but let's not forget that even if CP2077 was supposed to be first person, it will never reach BF3's level. There's a reason why BF3 is as shooter and CP2077 will be, you know, a role-playing game.

I also played the games you mention, I played Gears, and I don't want to beat a dead horse, but MP3 really was a discovery for me regarding how good gun combat can be in third person perspective.

It allows precision, each gun has a different feel, the cover system is fluid and not overused and all the different animations(both for Max and the enemies) really show how third person adds to the experience.

Max Payne 3 wins this for me, while I still haven't played it. I love how it focuses on guns and gunplay, which I hope Cyberpunk 2077 does as well. I don't want to shoot lasers out of my eyes. I'm still enjoying the open World of Red Dead Redemption. Whether its bullet time or deadeye or V.A.T.S. or something of that nature, it should find its way into our beloved future classic.

 

[fchopin]

also, the TP in Bloodlines sucked hard. Similar to Skyrim and the TES/Beth games. Hell, melee in BL you run at people waving your sword off to the side and slash in the most hilariously awkward attack ever! And let's not talk about fist fighting. Ughh.

Bloodlines had a story and was an RPG Skyrim had no story as far as i am concerned and combat was boring.

Nobody forced you to use the sword in Bloodlines, you can use guns if you like or some other vampire power.

 

[Lolssi83.811]

Bloodlines had a story and was an RPG Skyrim had no story as far as i am concerned and combat was boring.

Nobody forced you to use the sword in Bloodlines, you can use guns if you like or some other vampire power.

Let's be honest the gunplay was also pretty horrible in Bloodlines but it didn't bother me. And you gotta remember that Skyrim is over half decade newer game. Would be better to compare Oblivion with Bloodlines.

I think STALKER's weapons had nice "realistic" feeling to them. Also these days enjoying the frack out of Planetside 2 which has good shooting mechanics (and is free but not expecting CP2077 to have all that detail with guns (velocity, bullet drop, etc).

 

[Sardukhar]

Heh. The gunplay in Bloodlines was pretty bad. Still more fun than the Third person crap, though. AND, you could nearly outrun bullets at full celerity! Which was just fun. May need to reinstall.

The comparison was because fchopin disliked the combat in Skyrim but didn't seem to mind it in Bloodlines. I found the melee in Skyrim waaaaay better. There was a story in Skyrim. Many of them, really. Most of them fantasy-generic. Norse thing was a nice touch. Nothing to compare to Bloodlines, of course. A game of you playing a vampire in modern day L.A. Damn, that was fun.

Planetside 2 was fun for awhile. Got tired of the pointless back and forth though.

Are any of you guys other than wars, slim and I playing Mars: War Logs? Melee there is pretty fun. Parry and counter attacks, dodge rolls, ( ugh, but whatever), critical hits, rear attacks, bleeding and stealth kills. Very similar to Witcher 2. Like, VERY similar.

 

[JeromAsdert]

The idea sounded kind of neat but once I've looked at a few gameplay videos and it looked like fresh pile of steaming , ahem, cow poop to put it mildly. But if you suggest that it is a decent game I might give it a second chance and try it out.

 

[deathntaxes]

What about ONI??

With a bit of a smoother bridge between firearms and melee it could be just right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGwH8gZHHT8

 

[Lolssi83.811]

Oni was fun little romp back in the day Bungie right? Wish theyd make new Myth someday... or maybe better not considering state of the company these days

 

[Sydanyo]

Die By the Sword had a pretty cool melee system; you controlled the weapons with your mouse, so to swing a sword you would swing the mouse across the screen where you'd want to aim the sword. It was obviously a bit clunky, and it was back in 1998, but the idea was fun. Would love to see something like that done just a bit better in a modern game.

It obviously doesn't translate to consoles since the whole point was to move your mouse, so I guess any game that has to be ported to a console is out of the question.

 

[triprunner_1]

what about TPP with the option of switching to isometric, tactical view a'la Dragon Age Origins (with action pause)?

it would satisfy both the action junkies as they'd be able to play it in RT like in Fallout 3 and nerds like me who like to mess about with tactics, team play and stats...

 

[thewarsend]

Die By the Sword had a pretty cool melee system; you controlled the weapons with your mouse, so to swing a sword you would swing the mouse across the screen where you'd want to aim the sword. It was obviously a bit clunky, and it was back in 1998, but the idea was fun. Would love to see something like that done just a bit better in a modern game.

It obviously doesn't translate to consoles since the whole point was to move your mouse, so I guess any game that has to be ported to a console is out of the question.

Don't get me wrong, i do like it when they try "optional" new things. But it should be optional. Because at first seriously hated "Wicther 1". Why you ask? i just couldn't handle to controls. Whenever i encounter an enemy, i would always forget i'm supposed to keep pressing left mouse button to attack, so i would just die. I eventually adapted of course, and i love Witcher 1 but at first i seriously hated that, thankfully they changed it in "Witcher 2". I'm not saying an option like that shouldn't exist, it should, but it should be optional. You should be able to change it from main menu.