Combat system

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Could go with Krav Maga...but it's so fashionable right now, thanks to Batman. And Sambo has shovels! And is a hybrid art, too.

Maybe swap wrestling with Krav Maga?


Since sambo is more of a grappling art anyway, no reason wrestling should be on there...
 
I tried to pick the more applicable arts based on what is actually used in MMA. I'm all for a stand up clinching/grappling game, which would include throws, but I can't imagine the type of control scheme necessary to depict true ground-based grappling.

Hmm. Yeah. That's a whole nother subject. Or thread. OFF TO THE NEW THREAD BUTTON.
 
I think this fits here, so I'm going to repost it:
MELEE COMBAT SYSTEM:
Used keys - Q,E,T,Z,C,LMB,RMB,LALT,TAB (different for people who use the num pad)

HAND-TO-HAND
LMB - punch ; RMB - kick (away from character) ; Q - grapple enemy ; E - sweeping kick ; ALT - blocking stance (with all other mentioned keys being modifiers to block a particular type of melee attack) ; C - counter ; Z - uppercut ; TAB - dodge

MELEE WEAPON
LMB - swing ; RMB - thrust ; E - stun move (use the non-blade side of the weapon) ; Q - grapple enemy ; ALT - blocking stance (with all other mentioned keys being modifiers to block a particular type of melee attack) ; C - counter ; Z - kick ; TAB - dodge

FIREARMS
Q,E - lean around cover
LMB - shoot ; RMB - aim down sights ; Z - bash with the stock of the weapon / with your fist for pistols ; C - use bayonet ; ALT - blocking stance (with all other mentioned keys being modifiers to block a particular type of melee attack) ; TAB - dodge

BOWS & CROSSBOWS
Q,E - lean around cover
LMB - shoot (hold for more powerful shot) ; RMB - aim ; Z - bash ; C - use weapon special (like thorns on a bow) ; ALT - blocking stance (with all other mentioned keys being modifiers to block a particular type of melee attack) ; TAB - dodge

ARM-MOUNTED CROSSBOWS
Q,E - lean around cover
LMB - shoot crossbow ; RMB - aim crossbow ; Z - punch ; C - kick ; ALT - blocking stance (with all other mentioned keys being modifiers to block a particular type of melee attack) ; TAB - dodge

Why didn't I use F, X and the middle mouse button? F is "Interact", X is "change firemode" on firearms and the middle mouse button is just generally horrible game design (it never works when it's supposed to, for one thing).
What do you think? (Taken from one of my posts in the Dream RPG thread btw)

Also about the sticky cover: I really don't like that mechanic. A contextual cover system like in Far Cry 3 or Crysis 2 would be nice, with the character smartly leaning around cover or aiming over it.
 
I hope it’s done similar to the new Tomb Raider as it had very good combat but with some improvements to melee.
 
I think this fits here, so I'm going to repost it:

What do you think? (Taken from one of my posts in the Dream RPG thread btw)

Also about the sticky cover: I really don't like that mechanic. A contextual cover system like in Far Cry 3 or Crysis 2 would be nice, with the character smartly leaning around cover or aiming over it.


I like your ideas/choices, Sioclya. Not sure why you have separate rules for crossbows and bows, since the draw mechanic would double for the aim mechanic in a non-muscle powered weapon. I'd probably recommend just one buttstroke/pistol whip key like z, whereas the other key, "c", might be used to go to melee mode and give you access to that subset of abilities instead.
 
I hope they dont implement a combat system where you just have to face enemys and press button 1 2 3 4. This is kinda mega boring. I hope it will be a RPG with a very action lasting combat system for example to aim yourself instead of clicking on someone!
 
Hm. Could've sworn I commented on the idea of melee combat previously. Must have been in a different thread.

Anyhoo.

While I like the idea of different melee styles in the game, I *do* expect it to be dumbed down, to an extent. I don't expect CDPR to make a "melee fighting game" on par with the likes of Dead or Alive, Soul Caliber, UFC Undisputed, etc. Melee fighting, in and of itself, can get very deep, and VERY complex, very quickly.

I'd like to see different fighting styles, or a (relatively) small set of "tools" to give flavor to melee combat, but again, I don't expect to see anything as in-depth as a straight fighting game.
 
I am playing Max Payne 3 right now and it has one of the best - if not the best - third person ranged combat system ever. CDPR should definitely look at it for inspirations.
 
Max Payne 3 was okay. Ish. If you aren't a big fan of video game gunfights, I guess. If you are, you like a less-obstructed view and smoother response than MP3 had. And I got tired of seeing myself in my sight-picture while hip-shooting. Zoom in was not bad.
 
The body movement and positioning system is great and realistic, how Max changes his stance but keeps aiming at the same direction. Also, the game is very responsive for me, I don't know what do you mean by smoother response.
 
I found in both MP3 and Sleeping dogs a tiny but noticeable gap from when I flicked the mouse and fired to when it happened. I always feel that way in TPS shooters, I think. Perspective, maybe.

Sleeping Dogs was fun, but I think Max Payne was slicker in terms of shoot-play, minus the silly gun-fu bits. I remember stealth-assaulting an area with a pistol in MP3 and it felt pretty good, almost like a real shooter. Sleeping Dogs, although fun, still felt like an updated GTA shooter.

Frankly, if CDPR can pull off the feel of either one, I'm happy.
 
I don't have any problems with any controls delay in MP3, turned off mouse acceleration and it's very responsive overall.

What I like about MP3's combat system is it's pace. It struck me how "realistic" the shootouts feel in terms of both Max and AI movement speed and overall agility. There's no running around like crazy but more walking around and ducking behind cover, AI uses that quite effectively so it's more about reaction speed and accuracy.

MP3 also handles mixing TPP and FPP nicely, using FPP when you aim with a scope or collimator sights for more precision, while the rest is played out in TPP.
 
The AI in MP3 would flank from time to time, which was also nice. And suppress fire. Do you recall that multi-level alley-type area just before you catch up to the girl? Pretty fun.

Of course, that AI is easier to do than in an open-world game.

So much of the combat system is going to depend less on how the character handles and more on how the enemy act and respond to your acts. Has there been a convincing open-world game that made shooting feel less than an awkward crouch fest?

And no, Sleeping Dogs wasn't it. It was fun, but the AI and shoot combat was pretty basic.
 
One game that comes to my mind that was pretty close is another Rockstar game, Red Dead Redemption. But that was rather different type of "gunplay".

I was really surprised how well developed the AI in MP3 is...last time I had a feeling of fighting real enemies instead of dumb bots was I think in F.E.A.R. Oh, and those baddies had the best enemy voiceovers ever.
 
Hmm. RDR. An excellent example. And you know, I recall quite liking the gunplay there as well. I didn't finish it, though. Not too sure why. My kids play it pretty often.

The enemy AI wasn't bad, but nothing stand-out. Some of that might have been because in such a setting, first-guy-with-rifle wins. Reduces a lot of the tactical options. There were a few area defense missions though. Those were fun, but if I recall correctly, the enemy would still moronically rush into your gunsights pretty often.

Semi-open-world, I like the AI in STALKER Complete on Master difficulty, as I've mentioned before. They use cover, grenade, flank and call for back up. Still stupidly walk into ambushes in really obvious places and never set up ambushes of their own, though.
 
Oh, not totally true. Even near-real-world smart would be fatal in the first few gunfights, I agree. Generally. There are men who've survived dozens of gunfights, however...

In a PnP sense, I can assure you I rarely go easy on my players. They survive, if they survive, because they use teamwork, are clever (er) than the NPCs and are generally super-powered in some way.

But, yeah, running Cyberpunk 2020 you learn that if you throw enemies at the PCs in a video-game manner, they are dead meat pretty quick. 30 to 1 odds aren't survivable without real crazy luck or skillz. Or planning, I suppose.

If we ever approach real-world smart, I guess we'll have to look at some kind of compensatory mechanism for the main character. Asa GM I try to have a mix of NPC smarts. Some are as skilled as the players - others are moron gang bangers with attitude and firepower. The very people a hacked city bus was meant to drive over at high speed while they charge down the street, Dorphed up and firing their guns like idiots. Splat.
 
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