Combat Thread - General

[Snowflakez]

So far every indication is the combat in CP2077 is strictly FPS (probably with perks) vice RPG.

@gogmeister777 This is my concern.

Perks and abilities are different from stats and skills (Which are both different things by themselves). I want a weapon handling skill of some sort. I want that skill to have an impact on accuracy, bullet spread, recoil, etc.

That's all I'm asking for, that's all I've ever asked for. I don't want turn-based combat, or pure dice-rolling, I just want something that can blend the two and still feel good for those who want to play the game like a pure FPS.

If you feel like there is, indeed, some sort of weapon handling skill, or that stats will in some way affect recoil/bullet spread/etc., then that would definitely be something I'd be optimistic about. But I've seen absolutely no indication of that so far. If you have, please link me to where you got that impression, so I can get excited about it too.

 

[RaduMihai]

whatever, I just want a lot of different guns

 

[RaduMihai]

that cab scene is hilarious

"-got luggage?"
"-yep"

 

[gogmeister777]

If you mean choosing perk A (you may now dual wield handguns) over perk B (you may now reload 25% faster) is an example of how your character development choices impact combat effectiveness I'm afraid you fail to grok (look it up ) the basic concepts of character driven games.

So far every indication is the combat in CP2077 is strictly FPS (probably with perks) vice RPG.
Many of us see a serious disconnect in having FPS, and only FPS combat in what's suppose to be first and foremost an RPG.

No, I don't mean that so my grok is doing ok - or at least I think it is, I'll look it up later to see if I should be grokking or not Those things you mention would change the flavour of combat and how YOU control the character, not the character him/herself if you get my meaning.

Without wanting to sound conceited, I've been playing games since 1981, yes, I'm that old No, that doesn't mean I know everything or that I'm always right. However, among many other games, Bard's Tale and the wonderful Gold Box SSI games were among my favourites so I think I'm on safe footing with regards to my understanding of character driven. I get it, you want the character to do all the heroics, with you masterminding it all.

Also, I think you're being a bit naughty You yourself said Bloodlines is in your list of proper RPGs and yet that was FPP and had stat driven gunplay. Just trust CDPR a bit more maybe? Go on, you can do it

As for 'every indication indicates', we'll only know for sure when we see extended gameplay and have an understanding of the number crunching behind it, so I don't see the need to hit the panic button.

All the best.

 

[gogmeister777]

@gogmeister777 This is my concern.

Perks and abilities are different from stats and skills (Which are both different things by themselves). I want a weapon handling skill of some sort. I want that skill to have an impact on accuracy, bullet spread, recoil, etc.

Seems like we both want the same thing, which is always good

I'd be stunned, disappointed too, if there wasn't a weapon handling skill and that combat success was solely determined by me. I want my characters skills and my choices to really matter. If I forgo speech or tech and put points into combat I want to see the difference in my character, not me. I want the decision to have impact on my character and his strengths and weaknesses because that would be the kind of character I'm RP'ing.

I really think there will be this sort of thing because I think it matters to CDPR too.

 

[Snowflakez]

Seems like we both want the same thing, which is always good

I'd be stunned, disappointed too, if there wasn't a weapon handling skill and that combat success was solely determined by me. I want my characters skills and my choices to really matter. If I forgo speech or tech and put points into combat I want to see the difference in my character, not me. I want the decision to have impact on my character and his strengths and weaknesses because that would be the kind of character I'm RP'ing.

I really think there will be this sort of thing because I think it matters to CDPR too.

In that case, I apologize for completely misunderstanding what you've been saying. We're on the same page. I know that Su would consider that a good compromise, and probably Kofe too (if we had a weapon handling skill of some sort).

"If I forgo speech or tech and put points into combat I want to see the difference in my character, not me. I want the decision to have impact on my character and his strengths and weaknesses because that would be the kind of character I'm RP'ing."

Why did we ever disagree at all? Probably just a miscommunication, because this is exactly what we want.

Xer, on the other hand, seems to be implying that this cannot be done, and that it would be useless or even negatively impact the combat. Which is... problematic for those of us that really want RPG-based combat.

EDIT:

I remember where our disagreement started. You assumed 2077 would include this skill-based (character skill) gameplay, I assumed it wouldn't. We both assumed this based on the previews we've read, so we want the same thing, but our expectations are opposite.

I do have faith in CDPR, I just worry that they will cater to the FPS crowd over the RPG crowd.

 

[Suhiira]

Those things you mention would change the flavour of combat and how YOU control the character, not the character him/herself if you get my meaning.

Perfectly, I grok it , and totally agree.
This is why the trend of adding perks to FPS games and calling them RPGs is misleading (probably on purpose .... MORE SALES!!!!).

Without wanting to sound conceited, I've been playing games since 1981, yes, I'm that old

Pfffftttt ... kids ... mid 60's here (before that I was to young for anything more complex then "Battleship").

I get it, you want the character to do all the heroics, with you masterminding it all.

Also, I think you're being a bit naughty You yourself said Bloodlines is in your list of proper RPGs and yet that was FPP and had stat driven gunplay. Just trust CDPR a bit more maybe? Go on, you can do it

Yep.

I never said, or intended to imply, Bloodlines was a perfect RPG, just that it's among the best attempts so far; as is the original Torment (the new version, not so much).

I do trust CDPR, but that doesn't mean I'm a fangurl who blindly applauds every decision they make.

 

[gogmeister777]

Why did we ever disagree at all? Probably just a miscommunication, because this is exactly what we want.

Xer, on the other hand, seems to be implying that this cannot be done, and that it would be useless or even negatively impact the combat. Which is... problematic for those of us that really want RPG-based combat.

I do have faith in CDPR, I just worry that they will cater to the FPS crowd over the RPG crowd.

Thanks for your friendly reply and for sharing your thoughts on this subject in general. It can be difficult to make ones point absolutely clear, especially when writing to several people at once and when they're are so many feelings and intricacies about a game of this complexity. I try my best and also apologise for any part I played in our misunderstanding

With regards Xer's comments, I think if anyone can possibly blend these two things into something greater, then it's CDPR.

I've got a Steam library with plenty of FPS in my backlog. If I was in a rush to play them, I would have by now. Last FPS I played was Far Cry 5 (couldn't be bothered to finish it) and before that, the Doom reboot (which was great actually). They're not my priority genre, haven't been for a long time and so my hopes are the same as yours.

 

[Snowflakez]

Thanks for your friendly reply and for sharing your thoughts on this subject in general. It can be difficult to make ones point absolutely clear, especially when writing to several people at once and when they're are so many feelings and intricacies about a game of this complexity. I try my best and also apologise for any part I played in our misunderstanding

With regards Xer's comments, I think if anyone can possibly blend these two things into something greater, then it's CDPR.

I've got a Steam library with plenty of FPS in my backlog. If I was in a rush to play them, I would have by now. Last FPS I played was Far Cry 5 (couldn't be bothered to finish it) and before that, the Doom reboot (which was great actually). They're not my priority genre, haven't been for a long time and so my hopes are the same as yours.

And I apologize if anything came across as disrespectful. As you said, these subjects definitely have a lot of feelings attached to them. I'm glad we could come to an understanding.

Sometimes it's necessary to put the pride/ego/whatever aside and try to actually listen to what the other person is saying before having a kneejerk reaction... so, my bad.

And I'm with you on Far Cry 5. That's how I am with most Far Cry games (Except for 2... diamond in the rough there). I also agree that FPS are fun, but as is the case with you, they aren't my favorite genre either. Definitely prefer RPGs, the next genre after that would probably be strategy.

 

[gogmeister777]

Perfectly, I grok it , and totally agree.
This is why the trend of adding perks to FPS games and calling them RPGs is misleading (probably on purpose .... MORE SALES!!!!).


Pfffftttt ... kids ... mid 60's here (before that I was to young for anything more complex then "Battleship").


Yep.

I never said, or intended to imply, Bloodlines was a perfect RPG, just that it's among the best attempts so far; as is the original Torment (the new version, not so much).

I do trust CDPR, but that doesn't mean I'm a fangurl who blindly applauds every decision they make.

Yes, it is a trend to add perks, skill trees etc. Creed did it recently but I still consider it an action game. Calling that game an RPG would be mis-leading imho, for more reason than just the combat. Action game with RPG elements, sure, go ahead.

I trust you mean born in the mid 1960's, rather than being in YOUR mid 60's, heh. Unless you mean you were playing video games in the mid-sixties? Eh? What game was that, lol?! Nevermind, sorry, off-topic.

Ha, given your feistiness, I didn't think for one second you're a blind fangurl, you've got no worries there. I don't think anyone here is going to excuse you of that

All the best.

 

[gogmeister777]

And I apologize if anything came across as disrespectful.

You didn't come across as disrespectful, just passionate, which is fine. No problem

 

[Suhiira]

I personally prefer more conventional guns. The CP2077 guns will prbably work on thermo-electric premise, rather than gunpowder. Some military grade heavy weapons (as the rifle used by V) will probably be railguns.
There's talk about Fifth Elemnt guns that use self guiding bullets. I don't particulary like that, but those are in development as we speak, so why not.

Because conventional guns obey the laws of physics?
I don't expect much for thermo-electric, laser, or rail guns. Each have excellent reasons they don't exist outside a labratory and CP2020 (and presumably CP2077) generally pay attention to reality. Not going to get into it here (and many long time posters here will no doubt sigh in relief to hear that) but please look up discussions on nonstandard weapons in the forum archives.

The Trauma Team SMG seems odd.

It is.
Given the location and size of the magazine, ejection port, and chamber it fires a HUGE round but the barrel is virtually nonexistant. What's housed in the area between the magazine and trigger that resembles a grip but isn't being used as one is anyones guess.
Smartgun maybe?
If the rounds are self guiding they'd presumably be large, they have to be a sort of mini-missile, and wouldn't require a barrel for accuracy and velocity.

 

[Suhiira]

I trust you mean born in the mid 1960's, rather than being in YOUR mid 60's, heh. Unless you mean you were playing video games in the mid-sixties? Eh? What game was that, lol?! Nevermind, sorry, off-topic.

I am in my mid-60's, and was playing BOARD games in the mid-60's as video games didn't exist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactics_(game)

 

[Niovaldr]

I think they have the aesthetic nailed for the guns. My hope is that we get to customize them.

 

[GinWashi]

Well you have to remember that the grand daddy of all role playing games was not published until 1974 by TSR (Tactical Studies Rules) and before that the rules it was based off from was for miniature wargameing

 

[gogmeister777]

I am in my mid-60's, and was playing BOARD games in the mid-60's as video games didn't exist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactics_(game)

Wow, two lots of 60's, eh? Yes, that makes more sense, thanks.

 

[GinWashi]

More to the point of what @Suhiira was arguing about with combat and driving being twich based game play you could literately throw the REF (reflex) stat and all the REF skills out of the game since they will all be twitch based and the stat and skills will have no effect on game play at that point.

 

[Cybercable]

Good and interresting talk, i hope the game will be like gogmeister777 and snowflakes agrees on!
It will be the best RPG FPS hybrid game solution to make everyone happy and im trully think its what CDPR want too.

Having the option to have two different combat game mode (basic shooter and ultra real RPG) is on a production side really hard to do, especially in a game as big as it seems to be.

 

[Suhiira]

More to the point of what @Suhiira was arguing about with combat and driving being twich based game play you could literately throw the REF (reflex) stat and all the REF skills out of the game since they will all be twitch based and the stat and skills will have no effect on game play at that point.

If you go twitch based there's no need for character stats or skills at all.
After all, the player is in control.

 

[GinWashi]

no you could still have skills for the INT and TECH based skills. Unless if you are going to put in mini games for picking locks and such.