Common Sense... BaW endings

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Common Sense... BaW endings

In Blood and Wine once again you can get locked into a bad ending for ridiculous reasons. I think this is another thing that CDPR should really consider debating. So you are hunting a beast, a monster and if
you decide to kill dettlaff by deciding to go to the unseen elder
you get locked into a bad ending. How does that make sense after the
vampires attack the whole city and start killing everybody
? I mean i was always considering to help Detlaff throughout BaW until
the huge vampire attack
but after that i think it doesnt make sense that the game locks you into a bad ending at that point. Funny thing is you end up
fighting detlaff in the other endings i saw as well
. Could be better as far as endings go. Specially because the plot overall was pretty well written otherwise.
 
As it was with the main game ... you actually have to listen to what other characters tell you. If you seek out the Unseen Elder despite Regis repeatedly(!) telling you that he considers it an ill-advised course of action, well ... :rolleyes:

Besides, seeking out the ol' Vampire Overlord leads exactly to the intended outcome of that particular story portion: Stopping Dettlaff from further harming innocent people and putting an end to him. That's Geralt's goal (he actually verbalizes it in the game, just to drive that point home, btw.), and that's what he accomplishes.

You've got locked into the "bad ending" because you failed to realize that a) luring Dettlaff out could be easier accomplished by bringing the woman he loves (and for whom he was willing to kill repeatedly) along instead of seeking an audience with one of the most powerful and dangerous beings in this world, and that b) learning about said woman by spending time with her might grant crucial insight into her character as well as reveal her motivations and history, which might prove useful further down the road. Given that she's the duchess mysterious, allegedly cursed long lost sister now awaiting trial, perhaps not an altogether irrelevant thought.


And since this thread has the words "endings" in the title, I see no point in using spoiler tags.
 
Funny thing is you end up
fighting detlaff in the other endings i saw as well
.

Not on all the possible paths, if you go to the fairytale land and do not give the ribbon to Syanna, then the fight with Dettlaff is optional, but Syanna dies. In any case, I do agree with the previous post that you get enough warning from Regis that choosing the Unseen Elder path might not be a good idea.
 
Not on all the possible paths, if you go to the fairytale land and do not give the ribbon to Syanna, then the fight with Dettlaff is optional, but Syanna dies. In any case, I do agree with the previous post that you get enough warning from Regis that choosing the Unseen Elder path might not be a good idea.
The thing is, Regis does warn you about that path being dangereous. He says that it would be so for us. The ones that would go in to find him. You manage the part Regis says would be dangereous no problem. Then it locks you into a bad ending compeletely unrelated. If say, Regis were to die in that cave, then yes it would be like ''he said this could end badly'' . But the bad ending is nothing connected to the unseen elder. You decide to kill Dettlaff because he starts killing everybody in the city. Aaaand you are locked into a bad ending :confusion::confusion:
 
Yes, it is true that the reason why you get the "bad" ending is not directly related to what Regis says, but you also know at that point in the story that Syanna is the one who planned the murders and "blackmailed" Dettlaff, so it might be a better idea to find out more about her and also stop Dettlaff at the same time, following Regis' advice. Especially with the possibility of a yet to be known fifth victim. I agree that the game does not make the choice too obvious, but it would be easy otherwise.
 
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It took me a lot of time to decide which path to take, but as said before me i tried to weight the benefits of each path. For me it seemed like going after Syanna will help me understand the plot, while going to the unseen one felt like going to the parent in order to tell about the misbehaving child.
I Started to trust Ragis in the game and i wanted to listen to him because he have better understanding then Geralt about the forces, After putting himself in harms way in order to help Geralt he seemed to me like a very loyal and trustworthy friend one that Geralt should always try to listen to.

This is what i like about this game you need to listen and pay attention, and do what is right for the character not what you like at the same moment.
 
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It took me a lot of time to decide which path to take, but as said before me i tried to weight the benefits of each path. For me it seemed like going after Syanna will help me understand the plot, while going to the unseen one felt like going to the parent in order to tell about the misbehaving child.
I Started to trust Ragis in the game and i wanted to listen to him because he have better understanding then Geralt about the forces, After putting himself in harms way in order to help Geralt he seemed to me like a very loyal and trustworthy friend one that Geralt should always try to listen to.

This is what i like about this game you need to listen and pay attention, and do what is right for the character not what you like at the same moment.
The problem with that is, you are not going to the unseen one to complain about detlaff. You are going there simply for him to summon Dettlaff so you can kill him . The unseen one says so himself that he wouldnt punish/kill another vampire just because he is doing bad things. You basically ''blackmail'' the unseen one if he doesnt summon Dettlaff he will end up dealing with a lot of trouble. Which could mess up their ''gate'' to the vampire world. He doesnt want any of that so he ends up -having to- summon Dettlaff. Which is what we want. Now the reason for picking this path is because it does seem like the lesser evil . Syanna ''blackmails'' Dettlaff into killing 5 people. However Dettlaff kills hundreds of people by attacking the whole city. Kids women and all common people who have no idea whats going on. So you pick the path to kill Dettlaff instead of negotiating with him by bringing him Syanna or anything. In Geralt's own words; '' I dont cut deals with monsters, i cut them down'' . But when you do this, you get locked into a bad ending and it doesnt even have anything to do with you seeing the ''unseen'' one. Just a bunch of random turn of events and everything is messed up. The ''bad'' endings events are so random they could happen if you followed the other path. That s my problem.
 
Well, you do stop Dettlaff on the "Unseen Elder" path. But you ignore Syanna, who then kills the planned fifth victim (Anna Henrietta). When you make the choice, you already know that she was using Dettlaff for the first four murders, and that there is still a potential fifth one, since the murders are after the five virtues. And the last - probably the most important - victim would not be killed by Dettlaff, because he already knows about being used, it would have to be by a new assassin or Syanna herself. So, the outcome is not that surprising or unfair, there are some clues, they are just not very obvious.
 
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Well, you do stop Dettlaff on the "Unseen Elder" path. But you ignore Syanna, who then kills the planned fifth victim (Anna Henrietta). When you make the choice, you already know that she was using Dettlaff for the first four murders, and that there is still a potential fifth one, since the murders are after the five virtues. And the last - probably the most important - victim would not be killed by Dettlaff, because he already knows about being used, it would have to be by a new assassin or Syanna herself. So, the outcome is not that surprising or unfair, there are some clues, they are just not very obvious.
Well i see your point. But your logic does not seem right from my perspective. Because yes you do know Syanna is behind the murders and there should be a fifth one. But she is also locked up at the time. So after killing Dettlaff , as you said, you think there must be a fifth victim and you investigate the scenario with Regis. Which comes down to you learning that the fifth victim is the Duchess. But at that point even if you YELL that she is trying to kill Anna for all Beauclair to hear :what2: theres no saving Anna , you cant change anything when Anna lets her near and she kills her anyway...
 
It is not possible to predict exactly what is going to happen at the time of making the decision, but it is not unreasonable to assume that better understanding Syanna's motives could help preventing the fifth murder, or that she could even be convinced to drop the plan in the best case. So, I still see going after her as the better choice since - if you trust Regis - it is just as good as the Unseen Elder for finding and stopping Dettlaff anyway. And Anna Henrietta's naivety towards Syanna is also foreshadowed at Dun Tynne, so it is no big surprise either when she does not believe the accusation that her sister is planning to kill her.
 
Going after the unseen one only hurt the tool (Detlaff) while keeping the mind (Syanna) safe, without looking for any lead on who the fifth victim might be or what are Syanna's reasons. Those clues are important in order to understand and prevent the next murder, Syanna is very manipulative and she will surly try to continue where she left off in the future. Understanding her reasons are the key to prevent further killing because she will find a new tool sooner later even if she is locked in the tower (so many servants and guards to manipulate). In my opinion the lesser evil would be to confront Detlaff and Syanna, while doing the best to keep Syanna from harm.

Which comes down to you learning that the fifth victim is the Duchess. But at that point even if you YELL that she is trying to kill Anna for all Beauclair to hear theres no saving Anna , you cant change anything when Anna lets her near and she kills her anyway...

Why would she believe geralt? we are talking about her sister here. She doesn't believe geralt even if you chose to follow Syanna, and call her in order to confirm it, giving Syanna the perfect opportunity to kill Anna Henrietta. The difference is made by the dairy entries and you can only read it if you chose to follow Syanna.
 
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Why would she believe geralt? we are talking about her sister here.
Hmm i dont know... Maybe because:
1.She is the one who blackmailed the vampire into killing people and Anna knows and believes that.
2. You figure out the system which Syanna used to blackmail Dettlaff WITH Anna.
3. You find Anna s name to be delivered using the exact same system as the fifth victim.
I could keep going.
 
Hmm i dont know... Maybe because:
1.She is the one who blackmailed the vampire into killing people and Anna knows and believes that.
2. You figure out the system which Syanna used to blackmail Dettlaff WITH Anna.
3. You find Anna s name to be delivered using the exact same system as the fifth victim.
I could keep going.

I can see your point of view but in my opinion Anna Helrietta understood that her sister might had a very unpleasant journey with the knights and they must have done something to hurt her, she can rationalize it and understand her sister. On the other hand Anna Henrietta know that she done nothing to hurt her sister, so there is no reason to kill her, therefore she refuse to believe it. Logic and facts are irrelevant here. I think that Anna Henrietta would have believed Geralt if the guilty was another person.
 
Hmm i dont know... Maybe because:
1.She is the one who blackmailed the vampire into killing people and Anna knows and believes that.
2. You figure out the system which Syanna used to blackmail Dettlaff WITH Anna.
3. You find Anna s name to be delivered using the exact same system as the fifth victim.
I could keep going.

Eh ... no. Henrietta suffers from a severe case of denial. Understandably so, given her close relationship to Syanna.

The sisters' first meeting after Geralt figures out the truth:

Henrietta: Syanna ... it's true - it's you!* Sister, dear ... what have you gotten yourself into?

*referring to the fact that she is standing right there and also somehow involved in the murder mystery. It's not an acknowledgement of Syanna being the mastermind behind everything that has happened up to this point.

Henrietta: You ... you feel resentment, I understand. But I promise, promise we shall work through all the unfortunate matters of the past. We'll discuss them later ... Captain, escort Syanna to the palace. And you, witcher, you have my thanks. I cannot believe my sister was so near the whole time.

Henrietta is, first and foremost, relieved to see her sister returned to her, perhaps aware of her involvement but completely oblivious to her actual role in the murders (not her choice of the otherwise highly inappropriate word "unfortunate"). When Geralt and Regis cautiously hint at the fact that Syanna was the main culprit, manipulating Dettlaff to further her own goals, Henrietta reacts angrily, completely ignoring the obvious truth presented to her and, instead, shifts the focus to Dettlaff, who, she's disgusted to learn, is a vampire and, in her mind, is not only solely responsible for the series of grizzly murders but probably the reason why Syanna was drawn into it as well.

Then, during the ceremony at the end of the game when Geralt has finally put all the pieces together:

Henrietta: This cannot be true. You're mistaken! You must be!
Geralt: I have proof.
Henrietta: I do not believe it.

... and shortly thereafter

Henrietta: [...] You returned my sister to me, yet what you tell me now I find devastating. I've come to doubt that I can judge her fairly ... I'd far prefer to learn that you're mistaken.
Geralt: I'm not. In fact, I'd recommend you be particularly careful around her.
Henrietta: You exaggerate, witcher. She's my sister. I know well how to speak to her.

Again, even when confronted with irrefutable proof Henrietta is unable and unwilling to see her sister for what she is. This is partly out of unconditional sisterly love and a heavy dose of naiveté, but probably also due to her own deep-seated guilt over not only abandoning Syanna but failing her when it mattered most. But while Henrietta might be subconsciously aware of the hardships Syanna experienced during her exile and the irredeemable damage that must have caused, she simply cannot bring herself to face the truth and the grave implication that would entail. Henrietta still has a warped view regarding Syanna, still believing that a few words of wisdom and an half-hearted apology will undo years of suffering, letting them simply continue were they left off so many years ago. This is exemplified by her choice to detain her in the fairy realm, a place they both used to love when they were children and still fairly innocent.

The point being, the reason why Henrietta reacts in such an illogical and foolish manner is simply down to her being heavily emotionally affected by the events, which in turn strongly impacts her ability to judge both Syanna and the situation she finds herself in objectively.
 
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I felt like I was making a wrong move by seeing the Elder. But once I heard about him I was overly curious.

Rest in Pomino, my Duchess.
 
Not only Regis and even Orianna tells you its a very, very bad idea, you have a chance to abandon that road half way trought it, something that was never offered in any other important plot in the Witcher games... it has red flags all over it, you will only fell for it if you are not paying attention to whats happening in the plot, and thats the point, if you dont want to investigate about Syanna by going after her, and thus looking to make the faster way, you end up lockeed on a bad ending, thats no different from all other secondary quests on the Witcher 3, yeah you can go and rescue Ciri... and ignore all other secondary quests, but after that dont complain about getting a bad ending.

Also, why someone whould belive that killing Dettlaff will stop the attack on the city? Thats another red flag over there... do you belive that killing Dettlaff will magically stop the attack on the city? i do not. Thats what my common sence was telling me.

And after saying all of that im gona add... going to Orianna is canon, thats clear because of "A night to remember" and the start menu scene, thats why we have a chance to go back midway trought it.
 
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The best ending is the one where both sisters end up dying. I loathe both of them, they are disgusting and exactly the kind of stuck up, entitled, nepotistic people you'd expect out of the rich class.
 
Not only Regis and even Orianna tells you its a very, very bad idea, you have a chance to abandon that road half way trought it, something that was never offered in any other important plot in the Witcher games...

Yeah, that was ridiculous :D It absolutely makes sense story-wise, but after completing both paths I think Regis should just have said: "Geralt, srsly, just go after Syanna, that path was developed thoroughly, the other was rushed"
 
I've got the bad one and here are my thoughts on why the three endings seem illogical to me.

First off, the DLC is called Blood and Wine and CDPR sure made it so everyone notices this. Everything and everyone is connected with blood... well, and with wine :) Syanna and Anna Henrietta, Regis and Detlaff, Geralt and Regis... And also this new "rule" that came completely out of the blue: only a vampire can kill another vampire. It's emphasized on so often and so strongly, I expected it to be the major player choice of the DLC. But instead... instead this main truly painful moment is fully decided by developers and not by the player.

When I came to Unseen/Syanna choice in my playthough, my first thought was "this is it, this is the deciding moment". I knew Syanna was behind those murders, I kinda guessed she planned to go for Anna (political pamphlets all over Toussant, Syanna being Anna's "long lost sister", her desire to have things only her sister has access to...), I knew she used Detlaff and I knew Detlaff was more of a beast than a human, so it was pretty obvious he's going to kill Syanna for what she did to him. At this point I decided Detlaff was too dangerous to let him go and this is were I choose consciously (at least a though so) to condemn Regis, because it was hinted several times that only Regis would be able to kill Detlaff and that he'll be condemned by his kind for doing so. And although Syanna was yet another evil person to me, I thought it was inhuman to just set her up for being murdered by a vampire. Geralt is a witcher after all, he has to protect humans from monsters. Syanna deserved to serve time in jail, yes, probably even death, but not this kind of death.

So my Geralt made a conscious decision to risk his life to protect Syanna and to condemn his dear friend to kill the monster. After killing the beast he found the missing letter and it was indeed about Anna's murder. After talking to Syanna I was pretty sure she will try to do something as she was obviously the type that never gives up (she says it clearly). So my Geralt warned both Damien and Anna about Syanna. Yes, Anna feels guilty for what happened to her sister, so she refuses to accept the truth, but Damien and Geralt himself should have stopped this! Geralt could have stopped this as witchers are inhumanly fast! But no: no matter what you do, you can't prevent bad things from happening. There's simply no choice for the player.

Of course, after getting the bad ending I decided to go for a good one. Only to find out that bad ending is indeed a bad (short and incomplete) version of a a good one. And only to see that I have no option for conscious decision about Regis: he kills Detlaff anyway, no matter what I think or want. And imagine my frustration that after finding a third ending I realized that such an important matter as Regis' fate is decided randomly by some ribbon. They made a big deal about this and then it all came down to that ribbon. Wow. Just wow. For me this, and not even the fact that the best quest of the expansion locks you into the worst ending, was the biggest disappointment.

Also, I think that in the main game the bad ending is the one that has the most emotional impact on the player. It's bad, but it's brilliant. And in DLC the bad ending doesn't have a value of its own. What it does is it just makes you reload and pick a different dialogue option.
 
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As far as the endings go..


Meh. I got two dead sisters and a dead Dettlaff. The only change I would make, if I played again, would be trying to save Dettlaff. He's the only one I had even the slightest sympathy for.

Syanna is a monster - I don't care what happened to her, she made the choice to deal with it in the worst possible way. Pretty sure she didn't have to unleash the equivalent of a nuclear missile on Beauclair for her revenge.

Anna - well, she hired a professional, the professional told her what the situation was, she decided not to listen. That's what you get. Can't say I liked her much anyway.

Is there a way to save Dettlaff without having to go through fairyland again?
 
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