Common Sense... BaW endings

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Dettlaff is an idiot and way too impulsive, even Regis told you that Rhen did abandon him, in the first place, something he did not wanted to belive.
Honestely, i was in Dettlaff side, UNTIL he attacked the city, there is just no excuse for that, what you are saying about Syanna can be applied to Dettlaff as well, and thats the whole point in the history, but, you can talk Syanna out of it if you bother to investigate her side of the history, Dettlaff will not listen to reason, and even attack Geralt and Regis, also for not reason at all. He got what he deserved, he may be not evil, but being that impulsive is just as bad.

Also Syanna just wants revenge against his sister, the killing of the 4 knights was to conceal his true intentions, and the reason of why Anna will suddently be murdered. Syanna wants to kill his sister for the wrong reasons, that why Geralt is able to talk her out of it, and that you only are able to if you learn all the details.
And thats the only reason, i dont think Syanna wants the power either, if so, she whould not attempt to kill her sisterim plain view of everyone, and knowing that she will shortly follow.


Well, we're all entitled to see it our own way, guess that's the point of the choices.

I got all the story on Syanna but it didn't change my opinion that her actions were unforgivable. I don't think there's an option where she gets executed so it's either suicide or Dettlaff. I didn't like her and I didn't think much of AH either; she knew from early on Syanna was involved but was willing to risk the entire city.

Also, why the heck does everything happen outside?
 
Aside from Regis (who is just the best character in the entire Witcherverse!) I really liked the character of Dettlaff. I liked the stark contrast between him and Regis and thinking about which one was the odd one out - is Regis more human than normal for their kind, or is Dettlaff more vampire (more bestial)? I found it easy to forget that Dettlaff isn't just a human mind in a super strong vampire body, but that he is a completely different species from a different world and although he may look human most of the time and have something resembling (to us) human social relationships, everything he does is governed by an entirely different set of rules. His actions probably seemed entirely normal to him, in fact, maybe if it wasn't for Regis' example of the ability and reasons to live among humans then Dettlaff might not have even thought to give Syanna those three days, and he would have just killed her on the spot...

Ironically, if he had just done the vampiric thing and killed her as soon as he realised the massive deception she'd pulled, then the night of the long fangs wouldn't have happened. (I guess that thought process only really makes sense if you think of Dettlaff as operating under a completely different set of rules to humans - of course to humans that night didn't have to happen at all, Dettlaff could have just let it go and y'know, NOT massacred a bunch of innocent people who had nothing to do with what Syanna did)

I didn't want to kill him in my playthrough, but ended up having to do it anyway because of giving Syanna the ribbon (not doing that again next playthrough...I only did it for the Gwent) but after Dettlaff unleashed all those vampires on the citizens of Beauclair I think that's the decision Geralt would have made. To Dettlaff his reasoning would have been the mark of a sentient higher vampire (he even gave her special treatment by allowing her three days to meet him and explain her actions, and he was very clear about what would happen if she didn't) but to Geralt it would have been the actions of a beast (indiscriminate massacring of innocent people) and those, those are the things a Witcher kills.

Just one issue, Dettlaff kills Syanna not because what Syanna just did, Syanna actions are open to interpretation and it will depend on what is your POV on the matter, no way that everyone gona agree on this one, ive already learned that, the problem here is that Dettlaff ends up beliving she used him from the start, meeting him, being with him for a time, them leaving him, so a few years latter could fake the kidnnaping in order to use him. That is really very clear and not open to interpretation here, thats also probably why he does not kill her inmidiatelly.
The thing is, we cant really be sure if that true or not, thats kinda a important part of the history missing here, because we just have Syanna words on the matter, if what Syanna said is true, Dettlaff killing her just cant be justified, because he is acting on a wrong assumption.
And its no coincidence that Syanna is also acting on a wrong assumption on his whole "revenge at all cost" thing. Thats the point, they seem to be both wrong and as result of that end up doing terrible things.
 
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Regardless all the possible clues etc. Like in real life, you cant always influence and anticipate everything. Sometimes things just go wrong.

I do agree, the sad part in all this its, if Dettlaff allowed Syanna to explain he may have understanded, after all he does not cares much about killing humans, and if he loved her, he could have understand that the 4 people he killed did hurt her.

Its really a shame that he ends up beliving the whole relationship was to use him, he seems to be wrong there, at least thats whats the clues says.

Thats either something of the character(it may be, considering what Syanna and Regis told you about him, and how he acts), or maybe it was intended so we cant have a clear happy ending where all live and there is no room for discussion.
 
I have to admit that I felt much more sympathy for Dettlaff during my first play through than I did for Syanna. I'd much rather have had more interaction with him than with her but...oh well. Neither is a total innocent. Both deserve some form of punishment. What really ruined B&W for me is that there is no way to punish Dettlaff without Regis suffering for it which is just WRONG!

Why they decided to use this whole "only a higher vampire can kill a higher vampire" bit is beyond me. It's weak and it's cheap. Why not just let Geralt seriously wound Dettlaff, so that it would take years for him to recover, rather than have Regis step in to finish him off? Wouldn't that have been punishment enough? Or why include the scene where Regis is attacked in the graveyard at all? Why write the bits about the other vampires coming after him?

I simply do not understand why we're forced to either let Dettlaff off completely for what he's done, attacking the city, or have the only true innocent in all this, Regis, have to run and hide for the rest of his days for trying to help. Both of those options go against the cannon of my Geralt.

I got the supposedly "happy" ending the first time through but I can't leave it at that. I'm currently playing it through again and this time I'll let Syanna die and Dettlaff live just to spare Regis. That seems the lesser of two evils to me and perhaps then I'll be content to let Geralt grow old and fat with Yen.
 
from the gameplay perspective, though, i wish both choices would give you some way to get to that happy ending, cuz i'm a sucker for them.
 
I simply do not understand why we're forced to either let Dettlaff off completely for what he's done, attacking the city, or have the only true innocent in all this, Regis, have to run and hide for the rest of his days for trying to help.

Maybe the game was not intended to have a perfect happy ending. ;)
 
Dettlaff is too much of an anomalous component to spare imo. Even if he comes to terms with how events transpired with Syanna and you spare him, who's to say that he won't become enamored with someone else in the future, and when he's inevitably spurned again, go batshit crazy -pun absolutely intended - and wreak havoc on another town?

Regis' life in exile didn't sound all that bad to me. He gets to spend the rest of his days in Nilfgaard which, as Regis himself observes, is arguably the most civilized corner of the world and less prone to superstition, so it's less likely that he will be detected there. Regis also made it clear that the other vampires would probably not pursue him there, since they follow the age-old maxim "out of sight, out of mind."
 
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This is a comment I saw on reddit which I agree on, thought I might share it here in this topic. (Dunno if it is the right topic but since people here are talking about endings etc)

"The theme of the whole game is forgiveness. Syanna and Detlaff couldn’t let go of their grievances, which caused a lot of pain to both themselves and to innocent parties. The good ending is the best ending it rounds up the theme with forgiveness - only when Syanna chose to forgive Anna did everything become right. And if we chose to allow Syanna to live (and maybe earn her redemption slowly), that keeps all innocent parties (aka Anna) alive. Also Geralt actually defeats the final opponent (Syanna) with dialogue instead of swords, symbolising how he’s growing into a world that has less need of a witcher’s swords. And in the other 2 endings, the villains get what they wanted (Syanna or Anna dead), which negates everything that Geralt has done. On a meta level, I also don’t believe in the idea of “oh, it’s the typical Witcher twist” because that’s already been extensively covered in the 2 previous parts. I feel like B&W generally had a tone of hope? A lot of the quests, seems to be more pointed towards the fact that fairy tales can come true sometimes, and it is these rare moments of good that makes the struggle worth it. To have it end on a good note both reaffirms why Geralt does what he does, and is a great cap to his story."
 
Personally I didn't think the theme of BaW was hope or forgiveness at all. Instead it seemed to me to be corruption, false virtue and things being other than what they seem. You have a picturesque fairytale facade masking a cabal of literal bloodsuckers; you have beautiful sun drenched vineyards home to deliberate archespore infestation and vicious in-fighting between vineyard owners; errant knights fixated on suicidal courtship rituals rather than keeping the wilds safe for defenceless peasants; supposedly noble families actually steeped in a history of resentment, plotting and murder... all against a backdrop of a disney-esque castle which is essentially a monument to an elven genocide. I felt like the whole place was ripe for a massive dose of reality catching up with it, ready to be brought back to earth with a bump.

As such I thought the so-called 'bad' ending was absolutely fitting, tonally. Not only that but in terms of logic and justice, the deaths of Syanna, Dettlaff and Anarietta seemed apt. Dettlaff was a sympathetic, intelligent, but nevertheless dangerous creature who had grown maladjusted to humans to the point of mass destruction. Syanna was a psychopathic interloper who would have been executed by any ruler who wasn't blinded by familial love or loyalty. And the duchess lived in a bubble of her own disconnected self-importance and self-delusion - much like the duchy of Toussaint itself - which could not be popped except in a very forceful, fatal way. She didn't deserve to die, but she wasn't tricked or trapped into death either - she had all the information and experience she required to make a proper judgement, but she she insisted upon judging things to be other than they really were. By no means the first victim of Toussaint's fatal fiction.

At the same time, I agree that there is a very bright 'hopeful' atmosphere to the game, which I think comes most of all from the gorgeous surroundings - the real sense of a living breathing countryside, with people living and working in harmony with it. That doesn't go away just because a noble has died and everyone in Toussaint is having their little Lady Diana moment of mourning. The guilty parties have all got their just desserts and life will go on for the workers, the vineyards and the spoilt dilettantes in the city - as well as Geralt in sunny Corvo Bianco. Regis will do fine in Nilfgaard.

To me that's much more satisfying than knowing I jumped through hoops to keep idiots and murderers alive and happy with eachother.
 
@Laivasse
I agree and disagree on some points of course.
But you know in my opinion it is so great to see that those endings can be interpreted so differently, with these 3 endings you can get in Blood and Wine.
All I can say is good job cdpr! :D
 
I really understood the whole situation like you did.
After I completed my first walkthrough with the so-called "good" ending, I felt disgust for Syanna being so kindly treated by her sister.
There is something undoubtedly rotten in that ending, and I can perfectly imagine why some people just don't relate to that perception.
 
IMO, B&W doesn't have a bad ending. What it does have is a bad Duchess. Anna got herself killed, far as I can see. Too arrogant and spoiled into having things her way. Geralt , the Ducal Guard, Regis, everybody warned her and she just refused to listen many times. In the end, that got her killed.

The "good" ending was too far fetched to me. Would of been a better touch to see some post game action of towns people ready to riot for Syanna not answering for her crimes, which was hinted at during the Night Of Long Fangs.
 
I tell myself that in the good ending the sisters make up, but Syanna is still imprisoned and awaiting trial for her crimes. I don't think it was implied that she was or would be pardoned, but that she might be spared the death penalty.
 
How would the people find out the details about Syanna? Unless I missed something no real annoucments where made until the end where court is held. Wouldnt surprise me if it was all hushed up barring rumours.


Theres also in the ending anouncments of compensation after the night of long fangs by the Ducal treasury so that should keep people in line/bribed.
 
How would the people find out the details about Syanna? Unless I missed something no real annoucments where made until the end where court is held. Wouldnt surprise me if it was all hushed up barring rumours.


Theres also in the ending anouncments of compensation after the night of long fangs by the Ducal treasury so that should keep people in line/bribed.

Well, IIRC, when you report back to the duchess after failing to find Dettlaff, Palmerin de Launfal tells Anna Henrietta that the people are willing to storm the palace to get at Syanna. So word of her alleged crimes got out somehow.
 
I tell myself that in the good ending the sisters make up, but Syanna is still imprisoned and awaiting trial for her crimes. I don't think it was implied that she was or would be pardoned, but that she might be spared the death penalty.

As far as I know Geralt tells Dandelion (if he's the one who visits you at the end) that Syanna is locked up awaiting sentencing, and that most people think Anarietta will pardon her - and I am fine with it tbh. I felt for Dettlaff at the beginning, but then he decided to burn down a city and all sympathy went straight out the window. On the other hand, Syanna had four knights who raped and tortured her killed. She doesn't want what she calls innocent people killed while Detlaff simply doesn't care.
 
I thought we had already concluded that there was no rape involved in the story of the knights and Syanna?

She spent the last few years with outlaws. Bandits. We learn in the notes of the hanses and from common sense that bandits have a rather perverse sense of "justice". If one of the knights had raped her, then the "justified revenge" would have involved sexual violence, probably some sort of mutilation. Since that did not happen, even though Syanna has a tool to dish out any revenge she could dream of, there was no rape in the past.


Oh well. For me, the fairytale ending is just that, a unrealistic fairytale, that will probably lead to a lot of grief in reality (given that incredibly naive Annarietta vs her sister with her cluster B antisocial personality disorder.) :p

Only the ending in which Regis is not turned into an anathema to his own species, can be called "a good ending".
 
Many here keep mentioning the "three" endings to B&W. Aren't there really 4?

1) Let Detlaff kill Syanna, let Detlaff go and end up in prison.
2) Let Detlaff kill Syanna, kill Detlaff, Regis has to leave.
3) Get ribbon, kill Detlaff but don't do things for reconciliation so both sisters are dead and Regis still has to leave. (All dead scenario)
4) Get ribbon, kill Detlaff, sisters reconcile, Regis leaves.

I personally like #1 the best and it's cannon for my Geralt.
 
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