Communication and the Road Ahead

[Trykz]

By examining the evidence and looking at it. Is it so bad if this is it? It's a game I enjoyed a lot and I'd like to keep my expectations realistic.

Pretty much my position as well. With a few caveats:

I don't consider myself a "developer" by any measure of the meaning. But what I DO consider myself, is a reasonably well accomplished modder. With roughly 140-ish mods under my belt. I've worked with the underlying systems of a variety of game engines over the years. With that sort of insight, you tend to develop an "eye" for what a game's engine might be capable of. That said, I can tell you that THIS game's engine is most certainly capable of more than what the devs are pushing through it.

It's "limitations" concerning last-gen consoles? No idea. But on a PC? We've already had a taste of it's potential prior to the performance "tweaks" that essentially reduced the visual quality on many PC configurations. Rigs running DLSS and RTX most notably from the reports I've seen.

That said, I'm hoping that this "next gen update" isn't just removing those engine throttling tweaks that improved performance and stability for last-gen console users, thus restoring the pre-patch performance levels on PCs. Because if that's the case, you're going to see a LOT of pissed off PC gamers calling them out for it. I know gamers who've spent as much as $10k building their gaming rig. And trust me, they WILL notice if their rig performs at the same pre-patch level after that update.

This engine is most certainly capable of much more on a high-end PC. So let's see if they flex it's muscle once they leave their last-gen woes behind. The systems running on it are another story. And there could very well be where the current limitations may lie. Limitations that may need to remain in place for the time being. It's certainly not utilizing the full potential of it's "advanced animation" or "real-time AI" systems in this current version of the game.

 

[naknarorzu]

You see, this happened when a company have no communication with their customers.
It became a mess of wrong information and false articles.

I wonder what would happens if Apple or Samsung sell you a phone, and they don't give you any information, support or serious update for serveral months.
But we are in the gaming industry, so it's all good.
No need to give any information, so you can blame on the customers later if they doesn't deliver.

 

[Maranares]

They've mentioned here and there that they intended to follow the same sort of approach to the DLC as they used in TW3. It's been in interviews and stuff. Not sure if there will be exactly 16 Free DLCs and exactly 2 major expansions, but the plan is to handle it the same way. Free stuff that's little things followed by bigger, gameplay and story expansions that will be sold. Same approach was the idea, as opposed to diving directly into a sequel or doing ongoing expansions like a "season pass", etc.

Ok, thanks. This much i already knew, it's those precise numbers (16 dlcs and 2 expansions) that confused me.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I wonder what would happens if Apple or Samsung sell you a phone, and they don't give you any information, support or serious update for serveral months.

Apple device "big" update it's every 6 months (6 months is the sortest time). An upadte that simply improves the security of the device doesn't count, I think
Apple security updates
So if you have a Mac or an iPhone/iPad, don't expect an update every week... (And Apple never really gives out any information, the only information comes from the developer versions that are released early and don't includes everything)

 

[SigilFey]

Ok, thanks. This much i already knew, it's those precise numbers (16 dlcs and 2 expansions) that confused me.

Ha -- ! See??? Check that out:

The official information we have is that CDPR intends to follow exactly the same format of DLC as TW3. 16 Free DLCs which will be a mix of cosmetic content and some smaller additions to gameplay. There will then be 2 major expansions, both of which will be gameplay content similar to the way Hearts of Stone and Blood and Wine worked.

I made exactly the same sort of mistake that I'm talking about. I phrased this in such a way as my speculations were stated like facts, even though I provided no evidence to back up my beliefs and understanding. That's how simple it is for an argument to be groundless. (I'm sure someone can find and interview or Twitter post where they mention this, but I didn't dig far enough. Most returns now "Cypberpunk DLC" are focused on the Roadmap delays and such. More drama...)

But, yeah! They wanted to more or less repeat the approach.

 

[cyberpunkforever]

They've announced a Patch 1.3.

Post automatically merged: Aug 3, 2021

View attachment 11242123
A lot of people have expressed problems with the roadmap and its vagueness. It occurs to me that it may not actually be vague at all and everyone has been expectings things that will not occur. Instead, the rest or the remaining year will be devoted to two things:

1. Continuing to fix the game and make "improvements" that are not particularly big or impressive.

2. Making Cyberpunk 2077 for Next Generation Consoles.

They will include the probable free DLC but there will be no new announcements for the Expansions or other plans until at least 2022 and maybe after.

they announced many things, announcement is no guarantee

 

[igrvks]

I'd argue against that, since its the mixed/convoluted PR that has gotten them a lot of heat. Talking got them into this mess, perhaps its better to be quiet, work hard, and talk when they have something to actually show?

Granted, I'd like to hear what happening too, but lets see what patch 1.3 brings when it drops.

I think they should do a "state of the game"-stream where they go over in broad strokes what they are working on and what their goals are for the next quarter. It would take only 10 minutes to explain this stuff but it would go a long way for the fans that still remain waiting on new updates. A complete radio silence kills community engagement.

 

[somewherebeyond]

i think the first thing that will be released is next gen update, no dlc, xpac or patches before. Why? because they need more cash and definitely they want more sales, to get sales they have to update game for next gen to get those who ignored game into the boat. As for me won't be buying xpac unless it is good and on very deep sale.

 

[Bloodartist]

they announced many things, announcement is no guarantee

The disparity between what they announce and what we get is what has caused this collapse of faith in the company.

Does this mean that they should never announce anything? No.
If they can't keep even smallest promises they have some SERIOUS issues.
What did the "roadmap" look like back in January? iirc we should be getting free DLC right about now...

Post automatically merged: Aug 4, 2021

Sure, I'd agree CDPR communication could use some work. What does that have to do with a personal stream a developer does on their own time for their own gameplay? CDPR PR/communication is CDPR PR/communication. Pawel doing a stream is Pawel doing a stream. They're not interchangeable.

This is not how the world works. If a politician would stream hatespeech in their free time, you think it shouldn't reflect on their career? Because its "private"? Don't make me laugh. It is not private. Twitch is a public platform.

 

[BigWezz69]

I think they should do a "state of the game"-stream where they go over in broad strokes what they are working on and what their goals are for the next quarter. It would take only 10 minutes to explain this stuff but it would go a long way for the fans that still remain waiting on new updates. A complete radio silence kills community engagement.

I agree on the whole, but it would only take for them to say "We are working on X" then if X was not fixed, or got pushed to a later patch, then CDPR would only catch more flack.

What they could do is provide us with something like Trello, so the community can see what is being fixed/worked on.

I'm not sure if you know what Trello is, so here's and example for the game called Foundation.

Trello

Organize anything, together. Trello is a collaboration tool that organizes your projects into boards. In one glance, know what's being worked on, who's working on what, and where something is in a process.

trello.com

Side note, Foundation is a pretty good game, if you like city builders, give it a look at

 

[Trykz]

I think it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" issue. And CDPR has chosen the "let's don't" route.

It's the safer option, really. If they announce anything and it doesn't pan out for any potential reason you could possibly think of, they'll just get further crucified. Nope. Better just to clam up and hope players will return once the dust settles, and there's substantive improvement and more content.

Speaking of content, what I'm genuinely curious about is how all this last-gen, next-gen, DLC, and expansion stuff is going to work out. I mean, they really can't start working on the next-gen update when they still owe DLC and expansions to last-gen players, right? If that's right, then what's the use in working on a "next-gen update"? All the other stuff was announced pre-launch pretty early on as I recall. I don't see reneging on it in favor of next-gen and PC users going over too well for CDPR. Unless they plan of putting out 2 versions of the DLC and expansions for last-gen, and next-gen/PC users.

Unless I'm missing something?

 

[Notserious80]

I think it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" issue. And CDPR has chosen the "let's don't" route.

It's the safer option, really. If they announce anything and it doesn't pan out for any potential reason you could possibly think of, they'll just get further crucified. Nope. Better just to clam up and hope players will return once the dust settles, and there's substantive improvement and more content.

Speaking of content, what I'm genuinely curious about is how all this last-gen, next-gen, DLC, and expansion stuff is going to work out. I mean, they really can't start working on the next-gen update when they still owe DLC and expansions to last-gen players, right? If that's right, then what's the use in working on a "next-gen update"? All the other stuff was announced pre-launch pretty early on as I recall. I don't see reneging on it in favor of next-gen and PC users going over too well for CDPR. Unless they plan of putting out 2 versions of the DLC and expansions for last-gen, and next-gen/PC users.

Unless I'm missing something?

I kinda think they are going the otherway. Doing the free DLC and next gen first since next gen is gonna be good for stability and preformance figures. Free DLC will be small and can probably be done by a small team while the rest works on fixes/nextgen. only then will they get into the bigger story paid DLC is my guess. its just a guess but it feels logical and like one of the better options for CDPR to take. Also guess the lawsuite and all the other shit they have gotten after release has made them clam up like this...

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Speaking of content, what I'm genuinely curious about is how all this last-gen, next-gen, DLC, and expansion stuff is going to work out. I mean, they really can't start working on the next-gen update when they still owe DLC and expansions to last-gen players, right? If that's right, then what's the use in working on a "next-gen update"? All the other stuff was announced pre-launch pretty early on as I recall. I don't see reneging on it in favor of next-gen and PC users going over too well for CDPR. Unless they plan of putting out 2 versions of the DLC and expansions for last-gen, and next-gen/PC users.

The Next-Gen update (patch/whatever), it is only to improve graphics and performances to new consoles "and probably/certainly also PC" (maybe add RTX for example). Basically no longer running a game on Serie X with the limitations of an XB1. So nothing to do with DLC or other contents.
Different "teams" for contents, next-gen update or everything, I think

 

[Trykz]

I kinda think they are going the otherway. Doing the free DLC and next gen first since next gen is gonna be good for stability and preformance figures. Free DLC will be small and can probably be done by a small team while the rest works on fixes/nextgen. only then will they get into the bigger story paid DLC is my guess. its just a guess but it feels logical and like one of the better options for CDPR to take. Also guess the lawsuite and all the other shit they have gotten after release has made them clam up like this...

That's just it:

that "story paid DLC" you mention was talked about as far back as prior to the release of the game. So last gen console players are expecting it. They bought the game with the expectation of having additional paid content beyond the base game and free DLC stuff. Basically, what they have now (and whatever the free stuff ends up being) is all they're gonna get?

If that's the case, this is gonna get a whole lot uglier.

 

[DC9V]

what's the use in working on a "next-gen update"?

The next gen update probably comes with Fidelity FSR wich could mean big game changing, especially if it also works on old-gen. Increased performance allows for easier implementation of new content.

 

[Notserious80]

That's just it:

that "story paid DLC" you mention was talked about as far back as prior to the release of the game. So last gen console players are expecting it. They bought the game with the expectation of having additional paid content beyond the base game and free DLC stuff. Basically, what they have now (and whatever the free stuff ends up being) is all they're gonna get?

If that's the case, this is gonna get a whole lot uglier.

I expect all DLC too release too ALL platforms. would be silly not too do it. It might run like shit on the older hardware but i doubt it will be more demanding then the game already is. since they have sorta limited themselfs too NC in one way or another the demand on hardware should not be much higher atleast. Also theres talk that FSR works on older gens and might improve the preformance for them too.

Hopefully it will improve the overall preformance on all hardware tbh since this game kinda runs bad on everything at times. especially if you use RTX and maxed settings. Guessing theres some huge limits on what the engien can do or something involved in it. Also since they hade too release and fix it for oldgen consoles it feels like some shortcuts too preformance were taken(lowering lod distances and render distance and so on). The game looked better for me at release. (might be my bias tho, dont have any real comparasions too look at)

 

[Trykz]

The next gen update probably comes with Fidelity FSR wich could mean big game changing, especially if it also works on old-gen. Increased performance allows for easier implementation of new content.

Maybe. I don't know. I play all games on my PC and don't own a console, which is why I find all this last-gen next-gen stuff confusing.

I expect all DLC too release too ALL platforms. would be silly not too do it. It might run like shit on the older hardware but i doubt it will be more demanding then the game already is. since they have sorta limited themselfs too NC in one way or another the demand on hardware should not be much higher atleast.

That's what I mean. Last-gen console players are expecting paid content that's "enjoyable". Not a buggy as shit experience because CDPR decided to leave them behind. Because that's how they're gonna see it. I hope DC9V is right and it pans out decently for them.

 

[Notserious80]

That's what I mean. Last-gen console players are expecting paid content that's "enjoyable". Not a buggy as shit experience because CDPR decided to leave them behind. Because that's how they're gonna see it. I hope DC9V is right and it pans out decently for them.

I dont think that will happend. It will probably even get better if FSR works on old gen. Im not sure how they run the game on a console but for me on a PC with DLSS im still not impressed with the games preformance.

Im guessing the principle of FSR is the same as DLSS (upscaling a lower resolution image) just not using Tensor cores and AI learning. So im guessing there will be a limit too how big the increase would be especially on 12 year old hardware. Also im guessing there a quality hit to the textures/sharpness so on but. Consoles has been upscaling and using these kinda tricks since forever so.

 

[Trykz]

I dont think that will happend. It will probably even get better if FSR works on old gen. Im not sure how they run the game on a console but for me on a PC with DLSS im still not impressed with the games preformance.

Im guessing the principle of FSR is the same as DLSS (upscaling a lower resolution image) just not using Tensor cores and AI learning. So im guessing there will be a limit too how big the increase would be especially on 12 year old hardware. Also im guessing there a quality hit to the textures/sharpness so on but. Consoles has been upscaling and using these kinda tricks since forever so.

Here's to hoping.....

because I'd hate to see last-gen players get screwed, OR CDPR scrambling to manage yet another travesty. I think we're ALL at the point where we just want to move forward in a much more civil and tragedy free environment

 

[DC9V]

for me on a PC with DLSS im still not impressed with the games performance.

LOL

(No RayTracing)