Communication between the Witcher community and CDPR

[Pug.]

... but something changed in the last couple of months.

Hmm. What could that be?

Maybe the overwhelming negativity on these forums, threads constantly being derailed by personal attacks, accusations of dishonesty and favoritism, and criticism which in the vast majority of instances can in no way be classified as "constructive."

---------- Updated at 12:28 AM ----------

The point is...when you don't give an explanation, a satisfying one, things get worse. Just because the costumer, the old fan, feels betrayed and abandoned.
You could be right saying that us overreacted with that, but there wasn't any attempt to explain the situation from CDPR. Actually, the same contrary. When they say something like that issue doesn't exist, even if you see it with your own eyes...how you feel about. Cheated. Simply cheated.
That was the communication problem, and things just escalated very quickly. But, with that lack of info, couldn't be otherwise.

Actually, that is incorrect. GingerEffect (one of the Reds) has said numerous times on this forum that the way we comport ourselves and the personal attacks makes other members of the team reticent to engage with us fans. That was months ago. The fact that you failed to read those posts isn't the devs fault.

 

[moonknightgog]

Actually, that is incorrect. GingerEffect (one of the Reds) has said numerous times on this forum that the way we comport ourselves and the personal attacks makes other members of the team reticent to engage with us fans. That was months ago. The fact that you failed to read those posts isn't the devs fault.

This I didn't knew. Where can I read it?

 

[Garrison72]

Hmm. What could that be?

Maybe the overwhelming negativity on these forums, threads constantly being derailed by personal attacks, accusations of dishonesty and favoritism, and criticism which in the vast majority of instances can in no way be classified as "constructive."

No. he's talking about priorities. Unfortunately. I think the old fans don't have a place here anymore..

 

[dragonbird]

There was no active feedback from CDPR. That part needs to be stressed. They never did this. The people who are new here think they used to 'communicate'. No, they didn't. They were a nobody indie dev from Poland. They've never talked to the community that much. My main gripe is their actions as a developer now, not their communication.

This is what's puzzling me about this thread. I joined in 2011, you've been here longer, as have some quite a few others posting. When exactly was this rose-tinted era when CDPR had two-way dialogues in the forums? Because I don't remember it ever existing.

Yeah, that was one of the first things I learned here, but I always had the impression that they listened to us, but something changed in the last couple of months.

And how would you (the collective "You", not just Kallelinski) know this? Their approach has always been to listen, decide internally if they want to respond, and then respond by incorporating into the product. The first we would know about it would be when the product comes out or, maybe, in a press release. Not because they come into the forum and say "Hey, we're doing that". Because EVERY time they say something direct in the forums three things happen:
- It gets ripped apart and over-analysed, with people deciding it means something completely different.
- People jump into the conversation and decide that the dev's presence is a golden opportunity to raise whatever their pet topic is
- When the details emerge, a whole bunch of people start screaming "They Lied!" because it isn't exactly as they had envisaged, or because the situation changed and that "Good idea that they will consider" never got implemented.

I would agree that one way of stopping this kind of response would be a deep engagement with the community members, but CDPR clearly made the decision years ago to avoid it by not saying much. This isn't something new, it's ALWAYS been like that.

So what's the real complaint here? That CDPR have suddenly stopped communicating, or that you've never heard back about some suggestion you've made?

Or that a lot of newcomers who, incidentally, are just as much customers as any "old-timer", are also using the forums to give suggestions that you, don't like?

 

[Golden_Phoenix]

As I understand, people wanted to hear the truth about downgrade and CDPR was too afraid saying that truth before the launch of the game, cos' it would affect the sells.
Ofcourse community went nuts. Why CDPR didn't say from the start, that the things in footage can't be reached because - consoles! Hm?

Because people will pass away or what? Why not just say that we choose weak machines over powerfull gear straight away, instead of covering heads in the dust. CDPR is inside the tank today and I remember them as a Jesus with open arms and honest eyes.

This is what's puzzling me about this thread. I joined in 2011, you've been here longer, as have some quite a few others posting. When exactly was this rose-tinted era when CDPR had two-way dialogues in the forums? Because I don't remember it ever existing.

They were more talkative, especually with those who knew Polish, btw.

But as larger they get, then bigger Chinese wall spreading and more secretive they become.

 

[moonknightgog]

Ofcourse community went nuts. Why CDPR didn't say from the start, that the things in footage can't be reached because - consoles! Hm?

Or because the engine, or whatever. I wouldn't even care, an explanation would have been enough.

 

[dragonbird]

Or because the engine, or whatever. I wouldn't even care, an explanation would have been enough.

You saw the downgrade threads, and the language that was being used. Do you really think that if CDPR had come in and given an explanation, those posting would simply have said "Thank you for explaining" and stopped complaining? A handful, maybe, at most.

No, there's only one area where I think there should have been more direct engagement from CDPR and that's in Tech Support. But that isn't what people are talking about in this thread.

 

[Golden_Phoenix]

You saw the downgrade threads, and the language that was being used. Do you really think that if CDPR had come in and given an explanation, those posting would simply have said "Thank you for explaining" and stopped complaining? A handful, maybe, at most.

They could've tried, though.

 

[GuyNwah]

No, nobody wanted to hear the truth. They were told the truth and they wouldn't listen. They all thought they were morally better and more skilled than the developers, and they wanted to confirm their own inflated sense of worth by equating the developers to dishonest companies. There can be no acceptable answer to that outburst of hyenas.

 

[Golden_Phoenix]

No, nobody wanted to hear the truth. They were told the truth and they wouldn't listen. They all thought they were morally better and more skilled than the developers, and they wanted to confirm their own inflated sense of worth by equating the developers to dishonest companies. There can be no acceptable answer to that outburst of hyenas.

Ah, trolls infliltrated the area? Now I see what kind of reason might be behind the silence.

 

[eineingarp]

Oh I think it should have been pretty obvious to them that people would get pissed when they saw the downgrade. And once more:

1. The "downgrade" issue. Initially CDPR demoed TW3 (on E3) using their WIP variant of the engine. Later demos showed a noticeable difference. Community was concerned that the game was "downgraded" because of consoles. CDPR practically didn't respond to these concerns, until the issue blew up. Later CDPR gave an interview to Eurogamer trying to explain what caused the change, and saying they didn't explain anything to the community "frankly speaking because we didn't see it as a problem". But it obviously was a problem of communication. Note that CDPR were discussing it with the media, but again not with the community.

 

[moonknightgog]

You saw the downgrade threads, and the language that was being used. Do you really think that if CDPR had come in and given an explanation, those posting would simply have said "Thank you for explaining" and stopped complaining? A handful, maybe, at most.

No, there's only one area where I think there should have been more direct engagement from CDPR and that's in Tech Support. But that isn't what people are talking about in this thread.

I was there. I partecipated there. And I blamed CDPR, back those days, because of the downgrade issue. But what I'm saying here, I also said months ago in the downgrade thread.
I don't know what people wanted, I can only say what I wanted. And there are people which agreed with me, so...I really don't know.

I mean...saying something like "the VGX version existed, but the game wasn't finished nor merged as an open world, and now we have finished it, the engine has some issues and cannot handle it"...I'm pretty sure would have been really reasonable.

 

[GuyNwah]

If that was an expression of concern, then I'm a monkey's uncle. There was no "expression of concern", there were accusations that PC enthusiasts had been sold out to make profits on the consoles. That this was the work of a company that had abandoned its PC enthusiast base to go for quick profit.

 

[moonknightgog]

If that was an expression of concern, then I'm a monkey's uncle. There was no "expression of concern", there were accusations that PC enthusiasts had been sold out to make profits on the consoles. That this was the work of a company that had abandoned its PC enthusiast base to go for quick profit.

Yeah, but because there wasn't a solid answer. And where there is not an satisfying answer, people just freak out.
It's not that I'm defending that attitude in that thread, but this was basically the reason behind the quick escalation of the topic.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

This is what's puzzling me about this thread. I joined in 2011, you've been here longer, as have some quite a few others posting. When exactly was this rose-tinted era when CDPR had two-way dialogues in the forums? Because I don't remember it ever existing.

I agree that it was never on the level of let's say inXile or some other similar indie studios, which is part of this topic too (i.e. there was and is room for improvement), but it doesn't mean that situation didn't get even worse than it already was. It did. It might be constant bickering in the Yennefer / Triss threads that caused it (I really have no clue - I didn't even look there), but in reality distancing from the community altogether doesn't feel right. There were topics which weren't poisoned by that stuff, but no REDs weren't found there either.

 

[Garrison72]

Ah, trolls infliltrated the area? Now I see what kind of reason might be behind the silence.

With all due respect, I'm not a troll.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

I would agree that one way of stopping this kind of response would be a deep engagement with the community members, but CDPR clearly made the decision years ago to avoid it by not saying much. This isn't something new, it's ALWAYS been like that.

Which doesn't make it right or something we as community shouldn't ask CDPR to improve. Downsides of such distanced approach were already shown in this very thread. It (semi) worked for them in the past when community was smaller, when their fame wasn't so big and so on. But now these issues will be magnified. What (semi) worked then won't work today because it was never really a good approach to begin with.

 

[GuyNwah]

You're absolutely right, it is something for CDPR to improve. This will mean, however, moderators are going to step in and forbid topics CDPR cannot answer constructively, and ban users who use such topics to claim moral superiority. Communication is a two-way street here. With rules of the road.

 

[Golden_Phoenix]

With all due respect, I'm not a troll.

I was talking about downgrade threads, sorry mate.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

You're absolutely right, it is something for CDPR to improve. This will mean, however, moderators are going to step in and forbid topics CDPR cannot answer constructively, and ban users who use such topics to claim moral superiority. Communication is a two-way street here. With rules of the road.

I already saw that happening quite a lot, and really got an impression that forum was often overmoderated. It might be an overreaction to very out of hand behavior in many threads (and simply frustration and stress effect on the side of moderators). This should be handled in a balanced way. And if CDPR can't answer something constructively (not some attacks from people who can't be reasoned with, but let's say something they don't know about or can't talk about yet), they should better calmly say so, instead of such users being moderated and topics censored.