A lot of the "old users" are no more active just becasue the fear of misunderstanding interpretaions have been imposed and they don't know how to write or why to do it, now.
I know guilts exist but discretion and diplomacy would be very usefull. YHou, Rep, and the majority of you have made a great job. That doesn't mean that the biggest mistakes have coming from the community users only. Users errors are punished. Sadly a rule with one direction to be apllied.
Edit, last case (sadly not the lastest) : Aen Shiede and his farewell post.
I know guilts exist but discretion and diplomacy would be very usefull. YHou, Rep, and the majority of you have made a great job. That doesn't mean that the biggest mistakes have coming from the community users only. Users errors are punished. Sadly a rule with one direction to be apllied.
Edit, last case (sadly not the lastest) : Aen Shiede and his farewell post.
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@ReptilePZ I'd just like to say that I'm grateful you're engaging with us on the matter. It's positive to see such discussions take place.
We have a fine company who clearly pours a lot of effort into their work. We have a dedicated community who not only worship the ground CDPR walks on (most of the time), but also thoroughly enjoy their titles. There's a lot that can be learned on both fronts and I would definitely like to see some sort of representation from CDPR dedicated to community relations.
While I agree that there's certainly not much to reveal, announce and take on-board, there are instances where someone taking charge of said position would be appreciated. The modding tools situation for example. A simple response detailing exactly what plans where (whether it was to wait and see how much demand there is, if it's delayed, or never coming) would have countered the mass of confusion. It's literally the simplest of things.
We have a fine company who clearly pours a lot of effort into their work. We have a dedicated community who not only worship the ground CDPR walks on (most of the time), but also thoroughly enjoy their titles. There's a lot that can be learned on both fronts and I would definitely like to see some sort of representation from CDPR dedicated to community relations.
While I agree that there's certainly not much to reveal, announce and take on-board, there are instances where someone taking charge of said position would be appreciated. The modding tools situation for example. A simple response detailing exactly what plans where (whether it was to wait and see how much demand there is, if it's delayed, or never coming) would have countered the mass of confusion. It's literally the simplest of things.
I'd definitely agree with most of this. There are times when more information would be extremely useful, and the modding tools is one of those times. The only problem I see is that planned actions don't always work out the way the company wants, and there have been far too many times in the past when it's come back to bite them. But I do think that on such matters saying SOMETHING and working a little harder to make sure it's not misunderstood, and giving an update if plans change, would be better than silence, even though, as I said earlier, I think I can understand why they choose silence.
But I also feel very much against the view that "having been a community member for X years" somehow entitles anyone to special treatment. Those for whom TW3 is their first game, those who joined the forums this year, are no less important than those who were around for TW1. If CDPR choose to communicate via Twitter or some other mechanism because it reaches more people, then it's still communication.
It would be very nice to put a name to t"having been a community member for X years" because if I were mentioned I kindly take you out from your mistake ot this kind of interpretation you get in a possible case you were refrring to me. I have no receipt any PM from you so I'm inclining you have no problem with me or my opinions.
I''d PM myself but I don't know who is your boss for a further replay of your replay...Communication is not easy when people don't want talk nor listen and less understanding. And sadly this is the behavior in the whole forum. People don't knows how express without being intepretatied as badmouthing "people". People feel fear to establish a civilized dialogue by PM just ignoring those wer adressed them. People.
I cannot understand some people.
Hey, notice I'm badmouthing of myself and my own inability to understand some people, I'm not badmouthing about smoe people I humble cannot understand due my own and big limitations (cultural, educational, age...). The sadest is all that be might said by a PM. I didn't worked. What can a user do then? Any constructive alternative (beside leaving the forum)?
I'll be gratefull
I''d PM myself but I don't know who is your boss for a further replay of your replay...Communication is not easy when people don't want talk nor listen and less understanding. And sadly this is the behavior in the whole forum. People don't knows how express without being intepretatied as badmouthing "people". People feel fear to establish a civilized dialogue by PM just ignoring those wer adressed them. People.
I cannot understand some people.
Hey, notice I'm badmouthing of myself and my own inability to understand some people, I'm not badmouthing about smoe people I humble cannot understand due my own and big limitations (cultural, educational, age...). The sadest is all that be might said by a PM. I didn't worked. What can a user do then? Any constructive alternative (beside leaving the forum)?
I'll be gratefull
I’ve been reading quite a few posts by multiple users including the thread creator, and they raise many interesting points ^^
So I’ll try to make statement of what I’ve seen so far from summer 2014 until now. Things have been going relatively well, but couldn’t help that things have been starting to go downhill little by little.
In short, I have seen:
1) a certain decline in the interaction between fans and CDPR, leading some old time members to no longer post much anymore (as @wichat have indicated), that in most of the threads
2)Lack of CDPR presence in threads giving some feedback relative to the game. Some threads regarding technical aspects get ignored completely like the ones regarding graphical improvements/restoration of some cut features (unlocking the limited LOD/draw distance, increase and tweak fully certain SFX effects), or the NPC/building heavy pop-in
3) A certain lack of clarity in CDPR statements and some contradicting each other: need I say more? the downgrade controversy (huge denial at first, then confirmed), the REDkit 2 “possible” release (lots of teasing and infos regarding it and CONFIRMED by the CEO himself, then once the game realized…nothing, barely any info or ETA, then Mr.Momot announces that the Modkit is all we getting, and that they “are not planning to release anything else at moment”)
4) A general tendency to shy away from negative feedback or any sort of criticism, no matter what subject it involves: cut content, story and narrative aspect of the game, and technicalities (graphics, gameplay…etc).
one of the recent example, the underdevelopped "villains" and lack of content regarding them: http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/46839-Eredin-says-12-sentences-during-the-whole-game-and
5) A somewhat attitude to jump the gun with both certain members and moderators (please, this not meant as an insult, or criticism, just mere observations):
Example 1: if someone of the community members mentions that consoles have limited hardware for instance, a moderator would reply saying something like “no platform flame wars”
Example 2: if someone starts talking about how he feels PC is left out and that CDPR done things he doesn’t agree with, then some forum member comes bearing fangs saying “oh MS and SONY bought CDPR, leading them to betray us original fans”, or someone saying “oh CDPR is doing the best it can”, and start making apologies for them. In other words both parties don’t lead to constructive criticism.
And in most cases, CDPR staff is almost nowhere to be seen : /
Now, on how I feel about all of this: to be honest, I’m not sure what to think anymore.
With all what’s been going on, with CDPR’s broken promises, their lack of clarity and forthcoming, I can’t help but feel that it’s somewhat shady. The new fans probably don’t care, since they’re new to them, but for me, who knew them since their first game ever made, I can’t help but feel depressed and sad. Furthermore, the phenomenon I observed in the (5) point, was also accompanied by thread-locking, and ban-hammering, almost on an abusive level, which was heavily observed whenever someone tried to make a thread to criticize the graphics, not even mentioning the D-word.
This makes me feel somewhat uneasy and uncomfortable, as if I was in the middle of censorship campaign.
thanks for your understanding and for taking the time to read this post
So I’ll try to make statement of what I’ve seen so far from summer 2014 until now. Things have been going relatively well, but couldn’t help that things have been starting to go downhill little by little.
In short, I have seen:
1) a certain decline in the interaction between fans and CDPR, leading some old time members to no longer post much anymore (as @wichat have indicated), that in most of the threads
2)Lack of CDPR presence in threads giving some feedback relative to the game. Some threads regarding technical aspects get ignored completely like the ones regarding graphical improvements/restoration of some cut features (unlocking the limited LOD/draw distance, increase and tweak fully certain SFX effects), or the NPC/building heavy pop-in
3) A certain lack of clarity in CDPR statements and some contradicting each other: need I say more? the downgrade controversy (huge denial at first, then confirmed), the REDkit 2 “possible” release (lots of teasing and infos regarding it and CONFIRMED by the CEO himself, then once the game realized…nothing, barely any info or ETA, then Mr.Momot announces that the Modkit is all we getting, and that they “are not planning to release anything else at moment”)
4) A general tendency to shy away from negative feedback or any sort of criticism, no matter what subject it involves: cut content, story and narrative aspect of the game, and technicalities (graphics, gameplay…etc).
one of the recent example, the underdevelopped "villains" and lack of content regarding them: http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/46839-Eredin-says-12-sentences-during-the-whole-game-and
5) A somewhat attitude to jump the gun with both certain members and moderators (please, this not meant as an insult, or criticism, just mere observations):
Example 1: if someone of the community members mentions that consoles have limited hardware for instance, a moderator would reply saying something like “no platform flame wars”
Example 2: if someone starts talking about how he feels PC is left out and that CDPR done things he doesn’t agree with, then some forum member comes bearing fangs saying “oh MS and SONY bought CDPR, leading them to betray us original fans”, or someone saying “oh CDPR is doing the best it can”, and start making apologies for them. In other words both parties don’t lead to constructive criticism.
And in most cases, CDPR staff is almost nowhere to be seen : /
Now, on how I feel about all of this: to be honest, I’m not sure what to think anymore.
With all what’s been going on, with CDPR’s broken promises, their lack of clarity and forthcoming, I can’t help but feel that it’s somewhat shady. The new fans probably don’t care, since they’re new to them, but for me, who knew them since their first game ever made, I can’t help but feel depressed and sad. Furthermore, the phenomenon I observed in the (5) point, was also accompanied by thread-locking, and ban-hammering, almost on an abusive level, which was heavily observed whenever someone tried to make a thread to criticize the graphics, not even mentioning the D-word.
This makes me feel somewhat uneasy and uncomfortable, as if I was in the middle of censorship campaign.
thanks for your understanding and for taking the time to read this post
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Well, on the first question, I don't know, that's something only CDPR know. If I had to guess, I'd say there's no community manager because it's August and everyone's on vacation, so it's probably just bad timing in that regard. Plus not a lot of announcements either. PAX Prime is right around the corner, though, and that's where they'd need a NA community manager, so we might hear something new for that.
As for closed threads, that has absolutely nothing to do with CDPR or their PR. Us moderators - not RED staff - are responsible for the decisions to close threads. And those decisions are based on the forum rules and regulations. If that's something you'd wish to discuss, you need to contact us via PM.
I'm not exactly sure what this is referring to (and why you think you speak for "old users"; I'm an "old user" and I don't share your view). This, like the post above, seems like you being unsure about some moderator decisions rather than CDPR doing something wrong. Feel free to PM us if that is the case.
As for Aen Seidhe, users leave all the time, I don't see how some deciding to post about it is an idication of anything other than, well, a user wanting to post about it.
No need to thank moderators for this, we're community members just like you guys, we just get to be Internet janitors, too (yay).
On MODkit, far as I'm aware, Marcin said on twitter that there are no plans for other modding tools, so I'm not sure what else beyond that is expected in terms of clarifying things.
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I am a new member here, so I don't know whether CDPR used to communicate more in the past, but my impression is different. Many things they decided to add post launch were suggested by fans:NG+, storage chests, inventory changes, Triss additions, alternate movement. To me it shows they are listening to what the people are asking for. Of course expecting them to address all of the issues people have is simply not possible, but they are definitely trying to improve the game based on fan feedback. Also in most of the issues I mentioned were fixed someone of the devs communicated personally with the fans asking for them. I lack experience with forums in general(especially gaming ones) so I can't compare the level of dev interactions, but to me it seems that they are involved enough. I have seen them saying that they read this forum on more than one occasion on my short time here, and I tend to believe them.
As for the stuff they decide to address or ignore, becoming a big developer has it's up and downs, their target audience became much bigger thanks to TW3, communication becomes much harder, and gamers in general are a tough crowd to please with tendencies to passionately disagree on many many topics. From the devs perspective it seems to me like you're damn if you do and damn if you don't, so sometimes it's best to just keep quiet rather than saying something that will agitate people more and have worse consequence than staying silent. Also popular requests will have priority, they are a business and they are doing this for a living after all, if they want to expand their target audience and make more money at the expense of mainstreaming some elements of their game, that's fine.
As for the stuff they decide to address or ignore, becoming a big developer has it's up and downs, their target audience became much bigger thanks to TW3, communication becomes much harder, and gamers in general are a tough crowd to please with tendencies to passionately disagree on many many topics. From the devs perspective it seems to me like you're damn if you do and damn if you don't, so sometimes it's best to just keep quiet rather than saying something that will agitate people more and have worse consequence than staying silent. Also popular requests will have priority, they are a business and they are doing this for a living after all, if they want to expand their target audience and make more money at the expense of mainstreaming some elements of their game, that's fine.
Well, on the first question, I don't know, that's something only CDPR know. If I had to guess, I'd say there's no community manager because it's August and everyone's on vacation, so it's probably just bad timing in that regard. Plus not a lot of announcements either. PAX Prime is right around the corner, though, and that's where they'd need a NA community manager, so we might hear something new for that.
As for closed threads, that has absolutely nothing to do with CDPR or their PR. Us moderators - not RED staff - are responsible for the decisions to close threads. And those decisions are based on the forum rules and regulations. If that's something you'd wish to discuss, you need to contact us via PM. Via PM is a dead way. I've used it an no answer. Thank you Rep, for your worry, but as any user is resposable of the opinion of other users, a mod cannot be responsable for another one. But at least, you talk,
Vacation is a valid excuse.
I'm not exactly sure what this is referring to (and why you think you speak for "old users"; I'm an "old user" and I don't share your view). This, like the post above, seems like you being unsure about some moderator decisions rather than CDPR doing something wrong. Feel free to PM us if that is the case.
12 users in this thread, 7 of them more than one year old, and alost thiese 12 in a general way of coincidenceopf POV about Community (users, moderators, CDPR PR responables). No, obviously, I'm not talking fgor other people. Even the OP is not mine. So, it would be very unfair for the 11 users just pointing at me a their voice. A new example of biased interpretation for keeping the main attention far away of the topic. Weird.
As for Aen Seidhe, users leave all the time, I don't see how some deciding to post about it is an idication of anything other than, well, a user wanting to post about it.
His post and all the post further in reply to his thoughts. No need to OOC his depart and his reasons.
No need to thank moderators for this, we're community members just like you guys, we just get to be Internet janitors, too (yay).
On MODkit, far as I'm aware, Marcin said on twitter that there are no plans for other modding tools, so I'm not sure what else beyond that is expected in terms of clarifying things... You see, another time twiter... Official Forum is made of lower quality of users, perhaps?.
Nice to know. I've been scared for a moment.
Can't comment on this, I haven't received any PMs from you recently
I disagree with you here. What I see in this thread is people having different complaints, often contradicting each other. The general vibe I am getting, though, is "CDPR are not giving any indication of listening to my feedback. I (my usergroup) deserve more". I don't agree that the company should cater to this way of thinking. Feedback should not be measured by who is giving it, but how good it is. And, while there are certainly issues, I don't think they're being tackled from the right angle.
MODkit, for example. The problem isn't that a promise was broken, because we were never promised this (all we have on modding tools was an interview with Iwin, where he said what he was hoping users would do with the kit - and this is where most people started speculating it would be a lot like the REDkit, speculating being the keyword - and that they're working on it, with the intention to release it early on - no actual details were ever given or promised). The issue is that it's not as powerful as the previous editors and no reason has been given as to why this decision was made. But saying CDPR broke a promise has a much better ring to it, doesn't it? Well, that, unfortunately (other than being factually incorrect), takes the focus away from the actual issue and infuses the topic with a lot of unnecessary emotional responses. And that's part of the reason why we get silence.
No, just one of many places where information is posted. Sometimes the forum gets some information that is then quoted in other media, other times, it's the other way around. Way it's always been.
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This is the first time I heard about it too. Good to know though an I agree that this doesn't seem good, when there is so little or no staff dedicated to it. Surprised, that Chri only worked there for such a short time.
One more thing, I realized reading this thread was, that you are right, interaction was always limited, so why does it bother me now more than before. Also I haven't read the General or Witcher 3 sections basically since launch, since there were so many pointless discussions. I guess it was naive to think, that it would quiet down soon again and the regulars would stay and we could have the deep and engaging discussions and suggestions I seem to remember during the development time. (One of the most exciting videos I remember was the one, where they talked about what features they were able to implement, which they thought were cool. It was on this video, but with commenary. Might have been in the livestream, which is sadly not available anymore.)
Anyway, so far this discussions seems to have been mainly stating opinions and arguing with another and few points were raised, that have actual concrete suggestions for solutions. But I can't complain, as long as I haven't done what I myself suggested, how we should go about it:
(Notice, this is only from the forum perspective, as I am not using Twitter or the like, I don't know how things were handled there.)
Let me first start off with a positive example: http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/32690-The-Witcher-3-Wild-Hunt-An-Open-Letter
Even though I would have liked to see a few more details, like need to work on engine performance, like pop in, texture loading, etc., framerate... quest related bugs and blockers, or whatever, I feel this was a very good communication, instead of just saying: "The release date has been delayed to ensure the best version for all platforms is being achieved."
X-Box treatment: Even though these statements regarding X-Box, might have often been cringeworthy,
many were upset with the inclusion of the physical cards only in the X-Box version. Though this has received a very good update, critizism for telling people "Hey, some of you get more than others." should have been expected.
I think the problem was, that many of these things were regional or retailer differences, which you would notice there, but were not officially announced or praised by CD Projekt. Though I disagree with giving people different things for their money in different versions by retailer or platform, at least it was not in the base game and I don't know the reality of such deals and if they are not avoidable. Exclusive things seem to be inherintly anticonsumer and I support TBs stand (couldn't find the exact quote I wanted, but here is a table for Arkham Knight) on this, even if he just talks about in game things. It would have helped though, if they could have reassured people, that the cards were available at some point in the merchandise shop. But best not do it at all, if you can help it.
Mod support: Since the release of the Modkit many people have stated their disappointment regarding the limited nature of it. Also we were all expecting a release of the next version of the RedKit and since no prior announcement was made, it was a huge surprise. Teling us beforehand, that and why we would get a more limited tool, maybe even stating, that the feedback for the RedKit for TW2 was too underwhelming, would have been good and I think, many people would have accepted that. Since most were waiting on RedKit for TW3 though and some even putting of making their mods to wait for the supposed improved next version, I feel that this was either a huge missed opportunity or miscommunication.
I guess this stance was still expected by most. Instead, it feels like they changed their mind, but would not tell us why.
The ominous downgrade: CD Project ignored concerns about a visual downgrade for a long time and did not put out an official statement regarding its reason. It sometimes even stated that the downgrade did not happen (maybe someone has better links for that?), until they eventually admitted it, when the controversy had blown up way more than necessary. This was a good admission and if it had come when the first discussions started, or just parts like "The visual quality was achieved in a limited environment, but since then the engine has been changed to encompass an open world. We are currently trying to improve performance and reach the same visual quality. This is not an easy task, but we are putting in all our efforts." (I am not a PR person, so there are probably better ways to say that), the shitstorm would have been much smaller. Here direct communication, inlcuding statements like "This build is not optimized.", or "This build runs on PC with these features disabled.", "This is WIP, since in this feature there is currently a bug.", directly with the released footage, could have served to calm emotions and speculations. I feel for example they handled this much better with the leak of the Alpha version of TW2, when they responded quickly with a press release, though I don't think, they put out a similar statement in the forums towards the fans. (If you have proof to the contrary, please let me know.)
These are the three major points and this was mostly a summary, of what we discussed, with some proposals. I hope this is a good starting point for continued discussion and feedback to improve the situation or perceived situation.
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Ok, this post took me about 3 hours to compile all quotes, so it does not follow the last few pages of discussion...
i get what you mean sir, but the ceo still stated we were getting an EDITOR with full features, and this was confirmed by @Benzenzimmern multiple times.
the Modkit is not an editor, it is a sort of unpacker/recompiler for the game files, which modders tried to exploit more or less, but it's so bare bones, that modders had to make it a GUI, which should've been there in the first place, making the Modkit feel like a last minute solution with a sloppy execution.
while i don't think CDPR broke their promise, i'm not really sure what to think, especially after marcin momot's latest reply. this is a perfect example of bad communication. for the time being, we have no choice but to hope that they're still working on it.
some of the sources:
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All that post says is that there will be modding tools, still no actual details.The name matters little, WIP names are not uncommon in the industry.
Either way, not what the topic is about, I just gave the MODkit issue as an example of really unfocused ideas as to what the problem is, in my opinion, and too much focus on just complaining. If we can get past that problem, we can hopefully start discussing some more precise issues and how CDPR might handle them better, or what we'd like to see.
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And that's the main point of this thread, so let's focus on constructive ways to change that.
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And how exactly being "mainstream" translates into having poor communication? If anything, bigger studios should have more resources for that in comparison with smaller ones. What crowdfunding studios do is setting a good example, which "mainstream" should pay attention to. And as was pointed out, CDPR never were very good with it even when they were smaller. So it's not an issue of size and improving it now would be very useful.
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No, you are getting a wrong message. The general vibe of the thread is "CDPR is not communicating enough with the community".
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CDPR has simply dumbed down to the mainstream market they are trying to reach. That started with the constant lies during the development to attract the masses with unreal graphics and overpromised game systems and peaked with the actual game which in the end ended up as a riskfree calcul where the parts critical to the series are underdeveloped for the sake of the open world gimmick and other mass market goodness (in the that didn't work out that great since in comparsion to Europe the game barely made a dent in 'Merica where they tried so hard to establish themselves).
As such, it shouldn't be surprising that their attitude changed too and that the older fans may feel... alienated.
And it's not like this board is the only place that has noticed it. /v/, GAF, leddit... all of those places are fed up with CDPR's holier than thou attitude they keep pushing out while in reality they are busy underdelivering and breaking every other promise they give out. Iwinski's "nice guy who looks just like your neighbour after a hard week at work" attitude can only cover up for so many (un)intentional fuck ups. Or maybe he just doesn't have that much influence on the actual studio anymore.
As such, it shouldn't be surprising that their attitude changed too and that the older fans may feel... alienated.
And it's not like this board is the only place that has noticed it. /v/, GAF, leddit... all of those places are fed up with CDPR's holier than thou attitude they keep pushing out while in reality they are busy underdelivering and breaking every other promise they give out. Iwinski's "nice guy who looks just like your neighbour after a hard week at work" attitude can only cover up for so many (un)intentional fuck ups. Or maybe he just doesn't have that much influence on the actual studio anymore.
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Moderator: Claims that anyone at CDPR told "constant lies" are false and so offensive that any member who makes them is only perpetuating the alienation between those who wish to use the forum constructively and CDPR.
Continue to post such defamations and the thread will be closed for cause and your account given time off to reconsider posting in that manner again.
I became an active member on these forums because I was a huge fan of the Witcher games (which I considered "cult classics") and I thought if everyone else here is a Witcher fan, then we must have some things in common. And for the most part I think that's true. Everyone on here is generally pretty well informed about what they write about. We're all keenly aware, "mindful consumers." One of the things that I noticed when I first started posting was
(A) Everyone here is intelligent
(B) People can say whatever they like, as long as it's intelligent
(C) Everyone is super relaxed - even the moderators.
I think it makes a difference that the moderators here participate in discussions and moderate in a very informal way. They're gamers, just like us, and that helps to stimulate the relaxed atmosphere on these forums.
As to what has contributed to the decline - I'm not really sure. I don't participate much in the community subforum and I didn't participate in any of the threads that got locked. What I do know, however, is that there has been a massive influx of players as Witcher 3 hype escalated. Let's face it, The Witcher is no longer a "cult" series anymore. The Witcher 3 is a AAA best selling game. CD Projekt wanted to raise the standards of the AAA industry and the only way they can do that is by appealing to the AAA market. Our forum is no longer made up of a small, passionate fanbase.
These new posters who have come on don't know about those cool, rationale, discussions and they aren't expecting to find them. They're bringing the same attitude they adopt on other gaming forums. And let's face it, 99% of gaming forums suck. The only way they're going to contribute in a calm and rationale way is if they're taught to. And the only way they're going to learn is if someone sets an example for them and they're punished for bad behavior. But for every poster who learns good behavior there are a dozen who never will because you're just never going to reach them all.
Some of the new posters will leave when hype dies down and there are other games to be excited about. Others will remain and become part of our core group, like @web-head91 who still doesn't have a profile pic - what an asshole . Some of our core group will inevitably move on because that's what happens in life. I know there are many of us who know the only life worth living is a life of Witcher fandom. But let's not deny that there are those among us who're vulnerable to heresy.
I think one angle that hasn't been considered yet is that the size of our community has increased 10x over whereas the moderating team has remained the same size. The same moderating team that moderated us when we were that small, passionate community is now responsible for 10x as many posters. And as I said before - some of these new posters are assholes (I'm not talking about anyone specific here) and they're always going to be assholes because you can't reach them all. Before when we were a more close-knit community a simple "Take a chill pill, guys" was often enough to moderate a thread because everybody was aquainted with everybody. Now it takes a lot more than that, and on top of that moderators have more threads to keep track of.
Everyone keeps brandishing around that flow chart of audiences targeted by Witcher 3 promotional material. Well... I'd say Dec - Jan is when our little community started to go down hill. It's something that's happened slowly, but sped up as we got closer to release.
And granted, maybe our community wasn't always nice to newcomers. Maybe @web-head91 or @moonknightgog could speak to that. I remember our community could be pretty intolerant of idiotic opinions and if a newcomer posted something we disagreed with we usually replied with cold irony and memes. Perhaps one solution - and it's too late to do this now - would've been to organize a group of active posters into "sub moderators" who operated in an unofficial capacity of trying to reach out to new posters (setting an example) and reporting naughty ones so the real moderators don't have to do as much work. I really don't know.
---------- Updated at 01:32 PM ----------
I think I should also add that everytime there is a scandal - "The grapics have been downgraded!" "The lied to us about free DLC!" "Triss's romance isn't as good as Yenn's!" "They lied to us about modding tools!" the issues seem to escalate. If it was our small, passionate, community we'd have a cool rationale discussion about it, both sides would get their say, and at the end of the day we'd learn something from each other. But with all the newcomers interjecting their opinions in an oftentimes volatile manner it oftentimes ruins the tone of the discussion.
(A) Everyone here is intelligent
(B) People can say whatever they like, as long as it's intelligent
(C) Everyone is super relaxed - even the moderators.
I think it makes a difference that the moderators here participate in discussions and moderate in a very informal way. They're gamers, just like us, and that helps to stimulate the relaxed atmosphere on these forums.
As to what has contributed to the decline - I'm not really sure. I don't participate much in the community subforum and I didn't participate in any of the threads that got locked. What I do know, however, is that there has been a massive influx of players as Witcher 3 hype escalated. Let's face it, The Witcher is no longer a "cult" series anymore. The Witcher 3 is a AAA best selling game. CD Projekt wanted to raise the standards of the AAA industry and the only way they can do that is by appealing to the AAA market. Our forum is no longer made up of a small, passionate fanbase.
These new posters who have come on don't know about those cool, rationale, discussions and they aren't expecting to find them. They're bringing the same attitude they adopt on other gaming forums. And let's face it, 99% of gaming forums suck. The only way they're going to contribute in a calm and rationale way is if they're taught to. And the only way they're going to learn is if someone sets an example for them and they're punished for bad behavior. But for every poster who learns good behavior there are a dozen who never will because you're just never going to reach them all.
Some of the new posters will leave when hype dies down and there are other games to be excited about. Others will remain and become part of our core group, like @web-head91 who still doesn't have a profile pic - what an asshole
. Some of our core group will inevitably move on because that's what happens in life. I know there are many of us who know the only life worth living is a life of Witcher fandom. But let's not deny that there are those among us who're vulnerable to heresy.I think one angle that hasn't been considered yet is that the size of our community has increased 10x over whereas the moderating team has remained the same size. The same moderating team that moderated us when we were that small, passionate community is now responsible for 10x as many posters. And as I said before - some of these new posters are assholes (I'm not talking about anyone specific here) and they're always going to be assholes because you can't reach them all. Before when we were a more close-knit community a simple "Take a chill pill, guys" was often enough to moderate a thread because everybody was aquainted with everybody. Now it takes a lot more than that, and on top of that moderators have more threads to keep track of.
Everyone keeps brandishing around that flow chart of audiences targeted by Witcher 3 promotional material. Well... I'd say Dec - Jan is when our little community started to go down hill. It's something that's happened slowly, but sped up as we got closer to release.
And granted, maybe our community wasn't always nice to newcomers. Maybe @web-head91 or @moonknightgog could speak to that. I remember our community could be pretty intolerant of idiotic opinions and if a newcomer posted something we disagreed with we usually replied with cold irony and memes. Perhaps one solution - and it's too late to do this now - would've been to organize a group of active posters into "sub moderators" who operated in an unofficial capacity of trying to reach out to new posters (setting an example) and reporting naughty ones so the real moderators don't have to do as much work. I really don't know.
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I think I should also add that everytime there is a scandal - "The grapics have been downgraded!" "The lied to us about free DLC!" "Triss's romance isn't as good as Yenn's!" "They lied to us about modding tools!" the issues seem to escalate. If it was our small, passionate, community we'd have a cool rationale discussion about it, both sides would get their say, and at the end of the day we'd learn something from each other. But with all the newcomers interjecting their opinions in an oftentimes volatile manner it oftentimes ruins the tone of the discussion.
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i agree. i've taken the time to re-read some replies posted here, and @Scholdarr.452 (http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/56672-Communication-between-the-Witcher-community-and-CDPR?p=1896635&viewfull=1#post1896635), seems to share a similar opinion with what i posted before (http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/56672-Communication-between-the-Witcher-community-and-CDPR?p=1897054&viewfull=1#post1897054).
and as for what @Brian6666 said is true, to an extent. it is true that CDPR lisnted to some of our feedback and is not in the obligation to listen to all our complaints.
but there are still problems that are important nonetheless and deserve to be adressed such as the NPC/grass/buildings/textures pop-in, or the locked-in/hard coded settings for the game, rendering us unable to push TW3 graphics to the limit (like that horrible LOD/draw distance), but also solve other potential problems(http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/36088-A-compendium-of-tweaks-and-fixes-for-the-PC-version). those problems may not be very important to the console part of the fanbase (since a big percentage of them are new to the witcher series), but to us PC gamers they are. and let me remind that 1/3 of the sales of TW3 was on PC (a full REDkit 2 would increase PC sales though -hint, hint-), so our voices should have weight as well, not be ignored.
thank you for reading this post
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Is CD Projekt RED's lack of communication really the source of the decline in the community though?