Community Q&A – Time for some answers

[nukeheal]

It wont be like in the Witcher game which was based on the books. I bet Cyberpunk will have character creator which I'm happy with. Looking at pen&paper game it make sense. Not sure about gender options tho. Personally I dont really mind both genders in game just like in Mass Effect, we have some female gamers out there as well who love RPG games..

 

[goopit]

I think it'd be better if they just write and do what they want to do for the game have at least one male voice for the protagonist then the female gender would have silent dialogue subtitles and they can just patch it in later or have the option available as DLC?

 

[KnightofPhoenix]

So, maybe the optimal choice would be 2 voice over options for male and female no matter which class you choose, but as you said - make a branched story a la TW2 for each gender. But then, what with the classes and the story variations they could add?

I think class shouldn't affect story that much tbh. What I can see is a few variations in dialogue and maybe a choice or two slightly different, something that Alpha Protocol did a bit as well.

Of course ideally variations would exist for both class and gender, but since as you said that seems unlikely, I prefer the variations to be based on gender as it's only 2 variances instead of 5 or 4.

But ultimately the big variations I want them to focus on are those decided by our choices in the game.

 

[Garrison72]

I'm not buying the new Tomb Raider unless I can play Larry Croft.

On topic though, while none of the perspective questions has been answered, both games mentioned as inspirations are first person. This makes me hopeful for first person in Cyberpunk.

And include leaning, please! No crappy third person cover mode and conveniently placed waist-high walls!

It makes me uneasy. I want third person obviously. We shall see...

And would it really be prohibitively expensive to do female vo's? I mean look at all the localization they did for TW2.

 

[Dona.794]

^ and all the localizations for TW1, which was made on a much smaller budget

It would be fun to have a female protagonist since I can't think of any in cyberpunk games (no, Alex Denton doesn't count). I mean, who the hell wouldn't want to play as Molly? =D

There are so many options they could do with two genders, perhaps do a "two sides to a story" type of thing (to mirror Iorveth/Roche choice). The obvious downsides are having two main VAs and having to write about twice as much material, which may result in a shorter game (remember how some complain that TW2 is short, although it's 60+ hours if you play through both sides once?) Of course, it doesn't have to affect anything, it all depends on what they want to focus on and how they spread their resources.

I liked how class affected your options in Vampire Bloodlines, I'd like to see something like that. Gender choice didn't have a big impact, although it altered a choice or two, and also revealed some men who are not so interested in ladies I guess it's a bit different with vampires since they're asexual and only use seduction and sex as a tool for getting what they want.

 

[Corylea.723]

And would it really be prohibitively expensive to do female vo's? I mean look at all the localization they did for TW2.

I think it's not so much another set of voice overs for the protagonist that's the problem; it's that nearly every line of dialogue for every NPC in the game would have to be written twice. People treat men and women differently, and most of the NPC lines would be different for a male protagonist than for a female one.

Newcomers to the forum often assume that I'm a man, and even simple interactions sound weird when they don't know that I'm a woman. I've helped someone who's stuck in the game and been told, "Thanks, bro" or had someone thank me for a mod I've made and had them say, "Thank you, kind sir." The bigger, more complicated interactions differ, too, and to a larger degree; even non-sexist people frequently treat men and women differently.

So the dialogue writers can write the dialogue for one gender and have it just sound a bit strange for the other gender, or they can write it for some indeterminate, middle gender, and have all of the dialogue sound less clear and specific than it should.

I'd love to play a woman, but I'd rather play a male protagonist with good dialogue than play a woman with generic dialogue. Of course, I have a special love for good dialogue, so I don't speak for all players.

And since I believe that CDPR can do nearly anything, I think CDPR could pull off having two sets of dialogue if they wanted to -- two different Chapter 2's in TW2 proved that -- but I doubt that's where their priorities are.

 

[Garrison72]

That's true Cory. I hadn't considered the impact gender selection would have on the writing. I was rather hoping their new protagonist would be a woman, but I'm flexible on the matter.

 

[Corylea.723]

I was rather hoping their new protagonist would be a woman, but I'm flexible on the matter.

Same here!

 

[deviija]

I'd really like the choice to play as a woman. The answers to this question have been really evasive. Would be nice to have a definitive answer, please.

@Corylea Or, the world and setting could tread men and women equally and there would be no requirement to treat a woman differently than a man. This isn't necessarily Earth or even in the ballpark of our current era, history, stigmatisms, cultures, defining social schemas, etc. Part of why people do treat men and women different *is* because of sexism and/or engendered notions set by our society. Every single line spoken to a woman vs. a man does not need to be wholesale unique and different, that would make no sense, imo. As for writing 'neutral,' my storyline as a woman in Fallout New Vegas was just as satisfying as my storyline as a man in the same game, utilizing different paths and different dialogue demeanors/options/skillsets/sexualities/responses. A game can be every bit as satisfying and diverse if the creative team behind it knows how to do it and create it.

 

[Dona.794]

@Deviija
I get what you're saying, but I don't really see absolute equality as the solution, especially not in dark/mature games CDPR is known for making. Yeah, you could "fix" real world social issues of both genders, but what would be the point, aside from perhaps making the player feel "safe" for a little while? Cyberpunk is a lot about social issues imho, so why not use it as a platform to address them - not necessarily making things "right", but rather giving the player food for thought. You can't really learn much by pretending issues don't exist.

How would a neutral character sound like anyway? Assuming this eliminates male as the 'default', as I've seen people comment that some female characters only appear well-written because they are written as men first. It's a complicated issue :\

 

[wisielec]

@Deviija
I get what you're saying, but I don't really see absolute equality as the solution, especially not in dark/mature games CDPR is known for making. Yeah, you could "fix" real world social issues of both genders, but what would be the point, aside from perhaps making the player feel "safe" for a little while? Cyberpunk is a lot about social issues imho, so why not use it as a platform to address them - not necessarily making things "right", but rather giving the player food for thought. You can't really learn much by pretending issues don't exist.

How would a neutral character sound like anyway? Assuming this eliminates male as the 'default', as I've seen people comment that some female characters only appear well-written because they are written as men first. It's a complicated issue :\

I think CP can rectify the gender notion by scraping this aspect and put another layer on top of it. Male/female disambiguation - in exchange we could have 'naturals' and 'wired' people. I think that's the gist of things.
CP operates on a whole new level, and I would like the game to reflect that. There is no need for old gender dillemas in the new age where consciousness is the main concern.

People are used to some wierdest stuff there is. Gynoids, full borgs, exotics barely resembling humans... of course there are sex-human-toys and meat puppets but the ever occuring problem is not based on gender inequalities but on what is human and how fast can you live, how much data can you process... how close to the edge are you.

We can be both: very feminine male netrunner or rocker (whatever, just an example) or a hard boiled badass female solo/cop/nomad...
Point is gender specific lines (outside of romances) are not that important imo... unless writers want'em to be that is.

 

[Sirnaq]

I too prefer a set protagonist. What I meant is more about the all possible variations of story-class-gender we would get in the Cyberpunk game. Let's assume you will have 5 classes to choose from(sounds reasonable for a Cyberpunk setting) and 2 genders:

Approach no. 1 - record only 2 voice over/dialogue options for male/female character, but then no matter which class you choose, you end up with the same voice overs

Approach no. 2 - make unique voice overs for each class AND male/female, but then you end up with 10 voice over options you have to record and that's gonna cost A LOT of money. Maybe this sounds unlikely to happen, but remember CDPR's attention to detail?

So, maybe the optimal choice would be 2 voice over options for male and female no matter which class you choose, but as you said - make a branched story a la TW2 for each gender. But then, what with the classes and the story variations they could add?

That's why i prefer silent protagonist.

 

[joshko]

I liked how class affected your options in Vampire Bloodlines, I'd like to see something like that. Gender choice didn't have a big impact, although it altered a choice or two, and also revealed some men who are not so interested in ladies I guess it's a bit different with vampires since they're asexual and only use seduction and sex as a tool for getting what they want.

You know I was meaning to ask them how much they were looking at Bloodlines. Not only is it an amazing game but it's also a very similar situation, development wise, to what they are doing.

I like the idea of limiting gender to a class. I feel that it would be the best compromise as they could keep an in depth story line and dialogue that is consistent with the gender and class, but would allow for people to play as any gender they wanted.

The only double voice over they would need to do then are random comments from people, and ordering a drink at the club type conversations.

 

[warheryt]

No! Why editor in the game characters? Better you do not develop it and make a real hardcore game (like all your games) without multiplayer and editor of the characters, the history of a single main character.

 

[nocny.945]

(Google Translator)

How well translated by Google and how much I understood. I agree with Gregski, especially with Corylea.

The relationship between human differ radically, depending on who they are.

Each subsequent option to create your character, make that:
- We will have one thread for the various characters and unbelievable, blurred relationships between them, but will be non-linear storyline.
or:
- We will have several threads for different characters and we have no choices in the game and there will be some linear storytelling from start to finish.

I do not believe that it is possible to reconcile so many plot threads and possibilities, because the game would become a giant.

 

[Mihura]

Hummm I really think they should do a more neutral approach with gender, ethnicity, etc or forget about most modern problems, in deus ex the discrimination was against non-pure humans. After reading some things about cyberpunk lore I get the impression that most discriminations comes from other things, like social status for example. If this is a more futurist setting I would expect a different kind of mid set then a medieval setting.

 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Hummm I really think they should do a more neutral approach with gender, ethnicity, etc or forget about most modern problems, in deus ex the discrimination was against non-pure humans. After reading some things about cyberpunk lore I get the impression that most discriminations comes from other things, like social status for example. If this is a more futurist setting I would expect a different kind of mid set then a medieval setting.

Agreed, I don't think the gender issue needs to be addressed as much as other issues that the cyberpunk genre in general addresses (human "progress" and its implications).

But I would like NPCs to react to my character's gender from time to time. Have guys hit on me if I'm a woman for example (please give me the option to kick their asses). But it doesn't have to be every single dialogue.
Of course ideally that would be awesome, but so would people reacting to my looks, equipment, class, Hp, choices...etc, so it's not really a lacking that only applies to gender.

 

[Garrison72]

The differences required in writing a set or blank slate protagonist - be it gender or otherwise - are subtler than some people are realizing. My experience in games like Mass Effect, FO3, and Oblivion show that there's a disconnect with the blank slate approach. There's something generic about it compared to The Witcher, where I am Geralt. In those other games I'm just somebody.

I can deal with both approaches, but since CDPR did so well with Geralt, I'm inclined to say they should do another very specific set protagonist.

 

[whatatwist]

That's why i prefer silent protagonist.

Same here, as a silent protagonist makes it possible to play drastically different characters every time.

I mean, it would be great if CDProjekt had a colossal budget to hire ten or fifteen different actors to play the protagonist and record millions of variations on all the dialogue, but a silent protagonist is a more simple way to achieve a similar result.

 

[Mihura]

Agreed, I don't think the gender issue needs to be addressed as much as other issues that the cyberpunk genre in general addresses (human "progress" and its implications).

But I would like NPCs to react to my character's gender from time to time. Have guys hit on me if I'm a woman for example (please give me the option to kick their asses). But it doesn't have to be every single dialogue.
Of course ideally that would be awesome, but so would people reacting to my looks, equipment, class, Hp, choices...etc, so it's not really a lacking that only applies to gender.

Yes I am not saying NPC should not react occasionally to you character gender but I want both genders to be addressed not just one, most of the time the different that I notice and even if there is a difference, is a guy hit on a PC/girl/guy and your PC want to beat the crap of him when is a girl hitting, well that is a complete different story.

I hope they do not address gender, ethnicity, sexuality like we do because I doubt there are the core differences and discriminations on that world, I would expect more on how much money you have, implants, fame, morals or who you work for.

And if they do address gender I hope is not only that way. That is why I find this "so would people reacting to my looks, equipment, class, Hp, choices...etc" a lot better, normally that is overlook on most games, well there is Skyrim, Fable, GTA but think they can do better.