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Sioclya

Forum regular
#61
Apr 5, 2013
Being able to recruit companions is nice... it would just be better if it's optional. I sincerely doubt that CDPR will manage to make good AI on their first try, so it might be better if those companions were animals (making it harder to shoot them - they're only half height anyway - and if the AI acts retarded, you can just blame it on them being animals).

Also what's the big deal about Dogmeat? I've nearly completed my playthrough of Fallout 3 and I haven't met a single friendly dog (this might in part be due to the fact that I gunned down anything that moved and didn't look human on sight, as well as some things that didn't move but had a health bar)
 
thewarsend

thewarsend

Forum veteran
#62
Apr 5, 2013
Sioclya said:
Being able to recruit companions is nice... it would just be better if it's optional. I sincerely doubt that CDPR will manage to make good AI on their first try, so it might be better if those companions were animals (making it harder to shoot them - they're only half height anyway - and if the AI acts retarded, you can just blame it on them being animals).

Also what's the big deal about Dogmeat? I've nearly completed my playthrough of Fallout 3 and I haven't met a single friendly dog (this might in part be due to the fact that I gunned down anything that moved and didn't look human on sight, as well as some things that didn't move but had a health bar)
Click to expand...
You can find Dogmeat in a scrapyard. His former owner is killed by raiders.. After killing the raiders (and as far as i remember Dogmeat will help you kill them) you can recruit Dogmeat, regardless of your karma. And its not really that hard to identify Dogmeat, he is the only dog in the entire game to be friendly.

By the way, i just bought Bioshock Infinity and i got to say, Elizabeth's AI is pretty good.. She never once got into my way. I'm sure CDPR can do even better than that.. Don't sell them that short.
 
Sardukhar

Sardukhar

Moderator
#63
Apr 5, 2013
Elizabeth gets in my way and has an annoying habit of running to and fro as opposed to getting to cover and just staying there.. Her AI is idiot-simple. Run. Hide. Throw health/salts. I remain unimpressed. Good dialogue though.

As one thread on NeoGaf put it, if we didn't have Elizabeth, the gameplay would be pretty much unchanged. You'd need lockpicks? They'd have to leave rift-hooks in place all the time or not use them? Pretty minor stuff. She's a non-companion, really.

I don't know why you think CDPR can do better, since companions aren't their thing. Not that doing better than Elizabeth would be very hard...
 
U

username_3643066

Rookie
#64
Apr 5, 2013
Now, this is posted just as a counterpoint

Now, I admit this isn't going to appeal to everyone (or most anyone who posted ITT it looks like) but go back to your Character Sheets for a moment. Whats your role? Are you the Family-loving (and generally traveling with them) Nomad? what about the Rocker with the small army of roadies, makeup artists, sound check guys, groupies, and other hangers on? Maybe your just a small time Fixer, but one day you want to start your own Corp. And what about the Corp itself? That's a role, if I remember right.

Not everyone is alone. They might be isolated, abandoned, or forgotten by the thousands, but not EVERYONE is alone.

Cyberpunk is about fighting with a system that couldn't care less about you, because you can NEVER make a difference to the way it works. In that dark future, no one person can make a difference. So, doesn't that mean that trying to change anything would take more then one person?
Now, I know, not many people want to change the world, but trying to change the place they have in it does seem to be a common theme.

And I say all this because I wonder if we can actually make a Corp in game, and how such a thing would work...

Would we have to go find npc's and recruit them to our cause, gaining a shop and free healing area like in the suikoden games? Or would it be mission related, where each member (or department head or something) would have there own mission chains. Player affected mission chains, with multiple outcomes, each one enabling and disabling other missions. Would it just be a series of minigames that cause you to gain money after time passes (like owning a shop in fable, only without the price adjusting) or would it have some kind of stock price, which your actions would alter as CEO (both as directly related actions and from getting spotted doing 'bad' actions like killing)

All of this would depend on having other NPC's to interact with as "Companions," but they wouldn't have to come with the player. But what if you wanted them to? Could they have uses if they came with, such as opening locks or setting bombs, just distracting the cops maybe? Would they have uses to alter the battlefield (per say) as opposed to (or along with) just raining bullets at something?

If they are not nessary to the story development, NPC's with good AI are not a bad idea.
Even if they have good AI, NPC's don't always add to the story.

Depending on the Role of the player, NPC's could make or break quite a few situations.
Media's are not as good as Solo's in a firefight. What happens when a Media finds itself backed into a corner?
Also, what about Netrunners? (WAIT, whats that go to do with this?) What about the programs they use when there jacked in? Would some of the programs they use count? Or, while they're in, who protects the body?

We don't want to be forced to recruit NPC's.
But we also want to have a different game experience with the different roles.
To insure that the roles don't become the same, then the option to recruit would be there for the non-combative roles.
 
Sardukhar

Sardukhar

Moderator
#65
Apr 5, 2013
Hey, I'm a big fan of minions and hirelings. But those are job or mission-specific tools. The idea of a Companion that is in some way a near-equal and/or faithful permanent supporter, ( that typically cannot be killed because people hate that), is just not my idea of Cyberpunk.

NPC AI, the smarter the better. Corp minions or Fixer hirelings or Rocker fans, great. But always-on companions? No.
 
thewarsend

thewarsend

Forum veteran
#66
Apr 6, 2013
Sardukhar said:
Elizabeth gets in my way and has an annoying habit of running to and fro as opposed to getting to cover and just staying there.. Her AI is idiot-simple. Run. Hide. Throw health/salts. I remain unimpressed. Good dialogue though.

As one thread on NeoGaf put it, if we didn't have Elizabeth, the gameplay would be pretty much unchanged. You'd need lockpicks? They'd have to leave rift-hooks in place all the time or not use them? Pretty minor stuff. She's a non-companion, really.

I don't know why you think CDPR can do better, since companions aren't their thing. Not that doing better than Elizabeth would be very hard...
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We must have really different play styles.. She never once got into my way (i'll have to admit, i expected little more than picking locks and stuff but her AI wasn't bad.) and somehow she didn't feel useless (her voice acting helped greatly)

And i want companions with always on and always off option, i'm sure you can agree with that... (And in Fallout 3 an in New Vegas you could reruit your companions only if you wanted them and you had the option to kill them, as they didn't really effected your missions other than commenting on them.. I'm sure you didn't hate Fallout 3's and New Vegas's companions? There were no forced, always on companions and some companions felt really alive..)
 
Garrison72

Garrison72

Mentor
#67
Apr 6, 2013
I'm down with minions and hirelings, especially when playing Corp. Companions...they'd just get in the way of my lone wolf bad-assery.
 
Sardukhar

Sardukhar

Moderator
#68
Apr 6, 2013
As a Corp I pretty much demand -DEMAND- hirelings and swooping clouds of AV-8s full of black-clad killers at my beck and call. At least when I reach Resources 8-10.

I liked Fallout's companions, Wars. That damn Military Bot that follows you around yelling slogans cracked me up for hours, for example. "Die Commie Scum!"

But I generally dispensed with them after a few hours, since they were immersion breakers and stealth breaks. It's a kind of wider version of the Uncanny Valley thing: the longer I'm exposed to game AI and characterization, the more irritated I get. It's so repeated and simplistic after awhile.

Like multiplayer and Night City-external maps, like a wide array of enterable rooms or a crazily in-depth melee system, I have little objection to companions AFTEr everything else is in. And even then, they are pretty low, because AI is still myeh. And I bet will be by 2015.
 
thewarsend

thewarsend

Forum veteran
#69
Apr 6, 2013
Sardukhar said:
As a Corp I pretty much demand -DEMAND- hirelings and swooping clouds of AV-8s full of black-clad killers at my beck and call. At least when I reach Resources 8-10.

I liked Fallout's companions, Wars. That damn Military Bot that follows you around yelling slogans cracked me up for hours, for example. "Die Commie Scum!"

But I generally dispensed with them after a few hours, since they were immersion breakers and stealth breaks. It's a kind of wider version of the Uncanny Valley thing: the longer I'm exposed to game AI and characterization, the more irritated I get. It's so repeated and simplistic after awhile.

Like multiplayer and Night City-external maps, like a wide array of enterable rooms or a crazily in-depth melee system, I have little objection to companions AFTEr everything else is in. And even then, they are pretty low, because AI is still myeh. And I bet will be by 2015.
Click to expand...
But don't you see, by the time it was released, Fallout 3's AI system was already outdated.. Even that didn't keep you from getting few hours of fun with the Sargent RL3 now did it! :D You can't deny it.. And i just know CDPR can do better.. (If only they comment on this and give us a confirmation)
 
D

deathntaxes

Rookie
#70
Apr 6, 2013
Sardukhar said:
See, a pet would work. I STILL miss Dogmeat from Fallout. What a great dog. Who occasionally ran in front of my SMG fire. Dumb dog.
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DOOOOOGGGG MEEEEATTTTTT!!!!!! With a pet I think I accept the irrationality and stupidity of how crappy companion A.I.s are when dogmeat runs out into your smg fire it's a fucking tragedy. A dog even ehanced doesn't KNOW better so I'm not broken out of my game experience. I mean I killed dogmeat once by accident and I seriously had to contemplate how much did I want to replay about 3 hours of game b/c I hadn't saved in a while. I went back and ground it out b/c I wasn't going to go through the wasteland without my dog. Now if that'd had been and was like my human companions it just pissed me off that the ai settings sucked and was shitty.

Pets man when they'er dumb it makes me care and want to spend more time on them, but a person companion fucks up and does something dumb I want to sell them for parts and sell the game designers for parts as well who decided that I really needed to have this "companion" to really engage with the "story".

NO essential companions - sweet ass minions, expendable people to exploit, meaningless/ful relationships with NPCs yes please, but DO NOt make me HAVE to have a companion or waste dev cycles on the "most convincing, out of the way, but meaningful avatar for me to relate to."
 
G

goopit

Forum veteran
#71
Apr 9, 2013
I was thinking a permanent stick by you all day Companion would only be appropriate with the Cops role. I imagine it'd be something like L.A Noire but for other roles they'd only be temporary.

Nomads would probably only meet up and seperate when the mission is over. Maybe a media would have a cameraman but with the technology maybe a floating camera bot. Corporates would have hirelings and friends but not companions.
 
thewarsend

thewarsend

Forum veteran
#72
Apr 9, 2013
guipit said:
I was thinking a permanent stick by you all day Companion would only be appropriate with the Cops role. I imagine it'd be something like L.A Noire but for other roles they'd only be temporary.

Nomads would probably only meet up and seperate when the mission is over. Maybe a media would have a cameraman but with the technology maybe a floating camera bot. Corporates would have hirelings and friends but not companions.
Click to expand...
I want companions who will work for you and do the jobs you give them.. They can bring them to your missions or you can order them to protect the safehouse, do recon work, maintain weapons, hack computers, manufacture items, steal cars, rob stores ( Basically, bring cash in, earn your keep, pull your weight. Some of these might be just for show or they can bring bonuses, depends really). Same companions can betray you, stab you in the back, suffer from cyberpsycosis or can protect you with their lives, depends on who they are and how much they like you.
 
gregski

gregski

Moderator
#73
Apr 9, 2013
Honestly, that sounds cliche'y and I don't see a value of companions, how they would benefit the story or gameplay. Errand boys with potential for backstabbing? Not sure if I want to go there, that's why I'm rather opposing the companion idea from the beginning, as it seems to imply some narrative and design principals that I would love to avoid for once. At least in CP2077.
 
thewarsend

thewarsend

Forum veteran
#74
Apr 9, 2013
gregski said:
Honestly, that sounds cliche'y and I don't see a value of companions, how they would benefit the story or gameplay. Errand boys with potential for backstabbing? Not sure if I want to go there, that's why I'm rather opposing the companion idea from the beginning, as it seems to imply some narrative and design principals that I would love to avoid for once. At least in CP2077.
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This is Cyberpunk, there certainly be lots of errand boys and back stabbing... Might as well be some well written companions that protect or betray you... And those "narrative and design principals" ( and i'm not certain if we are talking about same narrative and design principals here) are going to be in the game one way or another... (I mean, you will talk with NPC's right? Why would companions would be any different?)
 
W

Wolfehunter.770

Rookie
#75
Apr 9, 2013
I wouldn't mind companions as long as there optional. If they can add value to the story / cheezy quotes. They could be behind the scenes like your personal weapons maker.. or dealer... or some hot chick you saved keep you warm in bed.. XD

View attachment 772

or a pet animal?

View attachment 773

You never know when you need a friend to watch your back when you sleep! :p
 

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thewarsend

thewarsend

Forum veteran
#76
Apr 9, 2013
Wolfehunter said:
I wouldn't mind companions as long as there optional. If they can add value to the story / cheezy quotes. They could be behind the scenes like your personal weapons maker.. or dealer... or some hot chick you saved keep you warm in bed.. XD

View attachment 567

or a pet animal?

View attachment 568

You never know when you need a friend to watch your back when you sleep! :p
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I want both human companions and pet companions.. (pets that can stand up would be nice..)

View attachment 774

I like it better in skin color, don't you?
 

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Wolfehunter.770

Rookie
#77
Apr 9, 2013
Of-course I like them with real skin.. but others might be into the kinky synthetics.

:eek:
 
G

goopit

Forum veteran
#78
Apr 10, 2013
gregski said:
Honestly, that sounds cliche'y and I don't see a value of companions, how they would benefit the story or gameplay. Errand boys with potential for backstabbing? Not sure if I want to go there, that's why I'm rather opposing the companion idea from the beginning, as it seems to imply some narrative and design principals that I would love to avoid for once. At least in CP2077.
Click to expand...
like what principals?
 
Sardukhar

Sardukhar

Moderator
#79
Apr 10, 2013
I have to admit, that if we DO end up with companions, there could be some very cool cyberpunk twists on the idea. Not just cyborg or android pets, but AI, vat-ninjas and Net-only Netrunner presences would all be interesting. Synthetic people, too, or nanite hive-minds, although the latter two are pretty post-human, frankly.
 
Garrison72

Garrison72

Mentor
#80
Apr 10, 2013
gregski said:
Honestly, that sounds cliche'y and I don't see a value of companions, how they would benefit the story or gameplay. Errand boys with potential for backstabbing? Not sure if I want to go there, that's why I'm rather opposing the companion idea from the beginning, as it seems to imply some narrative and design principals that I would love to avoid for once. At least in CP2077.
Click to expand...
Preach it brotha.
 
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