Comparable Rpg with Immersion - like Cyberpunk but with heart and substance. Suggestions? (Also comparison and talk a little about Cyberpunk etc.

+
With Fallout 4, Skyrim, Deus ex. I would add Mass Effect Andromeda. Mass Effect has a better relationship build possibilities as it impact our team, customization and craft are good. Different style gameplay possible with tree skill.
 
SJW-style? What are you talking about?
I was replying to the complaint about lack of gender/genitals customizations in Deus Ex. It just wasn't something that was important in the year 2000.
Post automatically merged:

Everything needs a progress, and the genres - too. Or it will be a way to copying and stagnation.

I think it comes down to expectations. When people hear "cyberpunk", they think Blade Runner.

You can write "cyberpunk"-like speculative science fiction that topical to today's concerns but no one will call it "cyberpunk" - heck even Blade Runner 2049, while being a great movie that can stand on its own, doesn't feel that cyberpunkish in many parts; IMHO it due to the shift in aesthetic and theme. [1]

Cyberpunk as a term seem to refer to the specific type of speculative science fiction created in the 80s with Blade Runner and Neuromancer being the defining works.

[1] IMHO the most cyberpunk-like part of the movie is the scene where K is reflecting on his experience with Joi while staring at the Joi commercial. I see it as a direct homage to the original Blade Runner and pretty much asks the same questions but coming from a different angle, "What is 'human'? Where do you draw the line?". That scene was the favorite part of the movie for me as it bring the Joi subplot together.

(And frankly, with every passing day, as my life circles the drain, I empathize more and more with K.)
 
Last edited:

Guest 4375874

Guest
Let’s be honest here. Deus Ex was made in a different era with different priorities. SJW-style surface level “diversity” wasn’t a priority in 2000.

Not that body customization means much gameplay-wise in CP2077 anyway. It just controls which dating path you take ... that’s it. It has no other interaction. Hell, you can’t even see yourself 99% of the time. (It means even less in Deus Ex since its plot doesn’t involve romance at all.)

Deus Ex core strength is its Immersive Sim gameplay.


CP2077 ... what can I say, with such primitive AI ...

For better or worse the cyberpunk genre has a very set aesthetic courtesy of Blade Runner - it's the origin (along with Neuromancer) of the Cyberpunk genre. CP2077 doesn’t do that aesthetic well. It’s was too clean and too open aired. It’s missing core elements like the ever present oppressive rain, everything being damp all the time, and a perpetual overcast. If you don’t fit this very famous aesthetic ... it’s hard to call your product cyberpunk. It's what people want and expect when they hear "cyberpunk" (Also why are indoors so stupid dark? It hard to see much of anything 90% of the time.)

Story-wise ... I guess it fits the themes of cyberpunk, might be too dark for my taste though - personally I find it a tad bit too “gross” and “sickening”. Witcher 3 is probably my limit. At the end of the day it’s just entertainment. I don’t want to walk away from the game with a sinking feeling in my stomach. (It doesn’t help I’m not really in the mood for stuff like this right now given current events.)



No, it's totally a thing. Many modern cyberpunk fiction can be considered neo-cyberpunk in the sense that they "miss the point" - instead of the landscape being this oppressive entity, the cyberpunk city is presented as some sort of wonderland where you are invite to explore.


CP2077 is "confused" IMHO. It doesn't faithfully recreate the traditional cyberpunk aesthetic yet at the same time attempts to appeal to traditional cyberpunk tropes.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is, either do a topical modern "cyberpunk" (in which you can't really use the label cyberpunk anymore; it would just be speculative sci fi with "cyberpunk" being more or less what we call speculative sci fic of the 80s) or do a full throwback recreation of traditional cyberpunk as we know it.

"SJW-style surface level “diversity” wasn’t a priority in 2000."

Sorry I read that line and won't bother to read the rest of your comment. The SJW nonsense is a childish argument when ppl have no way to argue their points or their argument is just nonsensical. If you want to be taken seriously don't start with that. Moving on
Post automatically merged:

Are you joking? You are implying that CP2077 doesn't copy anything and it's actually "progress" while it is a failure mainly because it's a jack of trades master of none, copying from many sources at the same time and messing up.
I can't understand your answer. Do you think that CP2077 is a step forward on the cyberpunk genre because it purposely dodge the usual tropes and topics? Did you even play the game? Everything need to progress, you are right, but where is the progress here? A GTA in the future? That's your idea of cyberpunk? Transfering your consciousness is a progress/novelty?
Do I have to remind you of the entire Ghost in The Shell serie or Altered Carbon ( few of the many examples I could have give to you ).
Also, Blade runner isn't cyberpunk at all... Man :giveup: that's embarassing.
I am all ears about the "revolutionary and innovative takes" that CP2077 did about the entire cyberpunk genre.
Again you are confused in your very own arguments. You are calling it a futuristic GTA here yet in your previous arguments you suggests it should have more activities that basically exists in GTA itself. So do you want it to mirror GTA or not?
FYI something isn't automatically GTA because you can steal a car, that's not the focus of this game whereas in GTA it is very much a part of the story (at least it was initially). So please stop drawing broad comparisons, everything drew inspiration from games before, GTA included. Those aren't criticisms, it simple means games before did something right and other devs borrowed elements to make it better. GTA doesn't allow you any of the customizations CP77 does so please stop comparing these games.

Moving on. As I've said before Deus Ex is not Cyberpunk. Cyberpunk is a glimpse of the future blended with 80's aesthetic. That does not exist in Deus Ex and then there's the obvious "punk" in Cyberpunk...It's there for a reason. Blade Runner is to a degree Cyberpunk so I agree with you there, though I understand what @jkl320 was trying to say. It's similar to how GITS in the original 1997 film was very much Cyberpunk but future iterations moved away from the cyberpunk theme. Stand Alone Complex was not Cyberpunk at all. And please remember while the novel that birthed blade runner explored a lot of these themes the term Cyberpunk wasn't coined until some time later. Things Like Metropolis, Alita and Armitage reflect the Cyberpunk Genre far more than anything you have listed. Just having Future tech does not make something Cyberpunk unless we're going to argue something like Start Trek or Star Wars are cyberpunk
Post automatically merged:

Ahhh, the amazing jaded glasses.
LOL!!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
"SJW-style surface level “diversity” wasn’t a priority in 2000."

Sorry I read that line and won't bother to read the rest of your comment. The SJW nonsense is a childish argument when ppl have no way to argue their points or their argument is just nonsensical. If you want to be taken seriously don't start with that. Moving on
Post automatically merged:


Again you are confused in your very own arguments. You are calling it a futuristic GTA here yet in your previous arguments you suggests it should have more activities that basically exists in GTA itself. So do you want it to mirror GTA or not?
FYI something isn't automatically GTA because you can steal a car, that's not the focus of this game whereas in GTA it is very much a part of the story (at least it was initially). So please stop drawing broad comparisons, everything drew inspiration from games before, GTA is no different. Those aren't criticisms, it simple means games before did something right and other devs borrowed elements to make it better. GTA doesn't allow you any of the customizations CP77 does so please stop comparing these games.

Moving on. As I've said before Deus Ex is not Cyberpunk. Cyberpunk is a glimpse of the future blended with 80's aesthetic. That does not exist in Deus Ex. Blade Runner is to a degree so I agree with you there, though I understand what @jkl320 was trying to say. It's similar to how GITS in the original 1997 film was very much Cyberpunk but future iterations moved away from the cyberpunk theme. Stand Alone Complex was not Cyberpunk at all. And please remember while the novel that birthed blade runner explored a lot of these themes the term Cyberpunk wasn't coined until some time later. Things Like Metropolis, Alita and Armitage reflect the Cyberpunk Genre far more than anything you have listed. Just having Future tech does not make something Cyberpunk unless we're going to argue something like Start Trek or Star Wars are cyberpunk
Post automatically merged:


LOL!!!

LOL indeed fam, you are just that confused. Good luck!
 
Although these games aren't Cyberpunk themed, they are some of the greatest RPG's ever. The graphics are a bit dated on them, but Fallout New Vegas and the Mass Effect Trilogy. Mass effect has the great characters and story you could compare to CP77 while FNV has the big open world with lots to do and lots to be found in it. Not only that, but both have more player choice and worldbuilding than I've seen in any game yet (especially FNV).

Like I said they aren't Cyberpunk but they are both futuristic Sci-Fi, dark mature games. If you can get past the dated graphics and dated combat mechanics in FNV and Mass Effect 1, then you will have a great time if you truly love RPG's. Also if you really can't stand the graphics or some of the gameplay elements, FNV has one of the best modding communities ever for any game, and it's still active even till this day. So you can add or change pretty much anything you could ever think of with that game.
 
Are you joking? You are implying that CP2077 doesn't copy anything and it's actually "progress" while it is a failure mainly because it's a jack of trades master of none, copying from many sources at the same time and messing up.
I can't understand your answer. Do you think that CP2077 is a step forward on the cyberpunk genre because it purposely dodge the usual tropes and topics? Did you even play the game? Everything need to progress, you are right, but where is the progress here? A GTA in the future? That's your idea of cyberpunk? Transfering your consciousness is a progress/novelty?
Do I have to remind you of the entire Ghost in The Shell serie or Altered Carbon ( few of the many examples I could have give to you ).
Also, Blade runner isn't cyberpunk at all... Man :giveup: that's embarassing.
I am all ears about the "revolutionary and innovative takes" that CP2077 did about the entire cyberpunk genre.
Do you know what "Cyber" is? Do you know what "punk" is? Is there "punk" in the Blade Runner? Is there "Cyber" in the Blade Runner? Where?
The movies are visual masterpieces. The first one and the second. One of my all-time favourite artists worked on that movie - Syd Mead (I'm something of a artist myself). The music of Vangelis is nowhere less of a masterpiece...But nor the movies are "Cyber" nor there are "punk".
 
Last edited:
This is a bit silly. Blade Runner is considered one of the prime examples of a cyberpunk setting. Just because you think a term means something it doesn't make it so for the rest of the world.

Just look at the number of times Blade runner is mentioned in the cyberpunk article on wikipedia. And they are not wrong. It's a broad term for a technological dystopian future setting.
 
Do you know what "Cyber" is? Do you know what "punk" is? Is there "punk" in the Blade Runner? Is there "Cyber" in the Blade Runner? Where?
The movies are visual masterpieces. The first one and the second. One of my all-time favourite artists worked on that movie - Syd Mead (I'm something of a artist myself). The music of Vangelis is nowhere less of a masterpiece...But nor the movies are "Cyber" nor there are "punk".
The term "Cyberpunk" results from an association of "cyber" (from the ancient Greek kubérnètès: the art of governing or piloting at the origin of the word cybernetics.) And "punk". The word “Cyberpunk” itself was popularized by Gardner Dozois, reputable editor of Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine. It was on December 30, 1984, in the Washington Post, that an article by Dozois entitled "SF in the Eighties" qualified as "cyberpunk" the style of the work of the writer William Gibson, and more particularly of his novel. Neuromancer (1984). He also described a whole bunch of young "weird" writers writing in the fanzine Cheap Truth: Bruce Sterling, William Gibson, Lewis Shiner, Pat Cadigan and Greg Bear. The cyberpunk “movement” was born. The term had, however, been used earlier, in November 1983, by the American writer Bruce Bethke, as the title of one of his short stories published in November 1983 in the magazine Amazing Science Fiction Stories.

Historically, Blade Runner is considered as cyberpunk movie because it was part of this movement. Don't be too strict about the word cyberpunk itself. Cyberpunk is more about the movement art or genre than a strict etymology today.
 
Do you know what "Cyber" is? Do you know what "punk" is? Is there "punk" in the Blade Runner? Is there "Cyber" in the Blade Runner? Where?
The movies are visual masterpieces. The first one and the second. One of my all-time favourite artists worked on that movie - Syd Mead (I'm something of a artist myself). The music of Vangelis is nowhere less of a masterpiece...But nor the movies are "Cyber" nor there are "punk".

Do you? Clearly not.
 
The term "Cyberpunk" results from an association of "cyber" (from the ancient Greek kubérnètès: the art of governing or piloting at the origin of the word cybernetics.) And "punk". The word “Cyberpunk” itself was popularized by Gardner Dozois, reputable editor of Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine. It was on December 30, 1984, in the Washington Post, that an article by Dozois entitled "SF in the Eighties" qualified as "cyberpunk" the style of the work of the writer William Gibson, and more particularly of his novel. Neuromancer (1984). He also described a whole bunch of young "weird" writers writing in the fanzine Cheap Truth: Bruce Sterling, William Gibson, Lewis Shiner, Pat Cadigan and Greg Bear. The cyberpunk “movement” was born. The term had, however, been used earlier, in November 1983, by the American writer Bruce Bethke, as the title of one of his short stories published in November 1983 in the magazine Amazing Science Fiction Stories.

Historically, Blade Runner is considered as cyberpunk movie because it was part of this movement. Don't be too strict about the word cyberpunk itself. Cyberpunk is more about the movement art or genre than a strict etymology today.
Where is the cybenetics in the Blade Runner? Is "Alien" a cyberpunk? Or "Predator"? Or "Escape from New York"? Or the "Dark City"? "Gattaca"? If a group of illiterate people called the genre of this film a "cyberpunk", then this does not actually make it cyberpunk.
 
The two newer Deus Ex games were great but no where near in comparison to CP2077, whatsoever. They also did NOT do many things better. Now, if you want to play the original Deus Ex, that game is phenomenal. It has a large world but nowhere near in comparison to CP but it did come out almost 20 years ago. It also did a lot of things right in a Cyberpunk world and the upgrades were phenomenal. The last 2 Deus Ex games were ridiculously easy even on the hardest settings and your implants were meh at best. The last 2 were more or less made to make you feel like a fighting machine and the non-violent approach was paltry at best and had none of the layers that CP has. Still, playing as Jensen and hearing that lion growl when you take out a foe was pretty bada$$, I won't lie.
The combat and stealth is far superior in the Deus Ex Games even if it is easy.
 
Where is the cybenetics in the Blade Runner? Is "Alien" a cyberpunk? Or "Predator"? Or "Escape from New York"? Or the "Dark City"? "Gattaca"? If a group of illiterate people called the genre of this film a "cyberpunk", then this does not actually make it cyberpunk.

Blade runner comes from the famous novel of Philipp K dick: Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep ?. Themes are about electronic, android and like Asimov: is a AI or cyborg could be considered as human. It's completely in the cyberpunk genre.
I think u are you're going too far in saying Blade runner is not cyberpunk

blade-runner4.jpg

Blade-Runner-2049-0500.jpg

blade-runner6.jpg
 

Guest 4375874

Guest
Blade runner comes from the famous novel of Philipp K dick: Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep ?. Themes are about electronic, android and like Asimov: is a AI or cyborg could be considered as human. It's completely in the cyberpunk genre.
I think u are you're going too far in saying Blade runner is not cyberpunk

View attachment 11111255
View attachment 11111258
View attachment 11111261
I agree the themes and influences are there but please remember the Cyberpunk genre did not exist at the time of "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep ". The term didn't even exist at that time.

Also the discussions surrounding AI and the human consciousness is not related to Cyberpunk, that's just a general plot device in science fiction. It's in Terminator, Robocop for example...and in the reverse there are stories in the cyberpunk genre that don't focus on that. Akira has zero to do with AI and what it means to be man vs machine yet it is still cyberpunk.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Blade runner comes from the famous novel of Philipp K dick: Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep ?. Themes are about electronic, android and like Asimov: is a AI or cyborg could be considered as human. It's completely in the cyberpunk genre.
I think u are you're going too far in saying Blade runner is not cyberpunk

View attachment 11111255
View attachment 11111258
View attachment 11111261
Did you read the book? In the movie, replicants are not androids. They are almost like humans but stronger. Biotechnology. They are not "cyber-androids". The movie is masterpiece, but is not a "cyberpunk". It may be Sci-fi Noir, Biopunk, Ribofunk, future noir - but nowhere near "cyberpunk". Admit it - there are not anything "cyber" in Blade Runner. Hacking? Cyberspace? Implants? Where is all of this? What in that movie is "cyber"? The City? Cars? Guns? What exactly? is Dick Tracy a "cyberpunk"? Is Dune a "cyberpunk"?
 
Hi Guys,

Just curious if there is a Rpg Game for PC with incredible Immersion and for 18 plus Players, likely looking like Cyberpunk?

Do you have some suggestions or a hint? I would appreciate it.
(don't need to be this high standard of graphics but Immersion and rpg is a must)

Sincerely

Well there's tons of options, think they're all mentioned here but I'll make a short list just in case:

1 - Deus Ex Human Revolution
2 - Deus Ex Mankind Divided
3 - Deus Ex The conspiracy (Yes, the first one, it is more of an RPG but it has tons of action albeit not much of an open world but the carryover desicions in that game are amazing)
4 - Shadowrun SNES Game (Yes, the old snes game, the setting is really like blade runner graphics aside the world in that game is rather interesting with an open world albeit rather limited in what you can do in it)
5 - Shadowrun SEGA (not that good of a game but the "hacking" is rather interesting there and it's more of an open world than the snes game)
6 - Shadowrun Returns, Dragonfall, Boston Lockdown, Hong Kong (they're all turn based and not much of an open world to interact but the story and the mods are great)
7 - There is a rather old Blade runner game, not much of an action game though but since I've mentioned shadowrun games I'll put it here just in case.
8 - Of course the mass effect trilogy (if you're more into action itself go for ME 2 or 3)
9 - Beneath a steel sky although not much of an open world rpg, more of a point click adventure, but good story.
10 - FarCry 3 blood dragon, much more of an action game but really enjoyable characters.
 
I read a review where CP2077's story is described as "engaging but ultimately forgettable". From what I have seen, it's a fair description. Not sure why/how it ended up like this though.
You know, I think I figured out why CP2077's story is "engaging but ultimately forgettable" ...

TL;DR = It's story pretty much just treads old ground.

I just recalled that it's one of the complaints of the Skill Up review.

Cyberpunk is under speculative fiction where you ask "What if ..." and explore the consequences. It's a big part of what makes it interesting.

Blade Runner asks "What if we can create synthetic beings in our own image? At what point do they 'become' human? Is there such a point? - 2049 more or less asks the same question but with a bit of a twist; instead of Rachel who can pretty much pass for human, they present us with Joi ...

Neuromancer ... explores what if we can upload ourselves unto a global computer network?

Ghost in the Shell explores what if we can nigh completely externalize our memory, replacing parts of our brain with a synthetic equivalent. Will you still really be you? What makes you, you? Your memories and your preferences? What if your memories can be altered? Will you still be you after the alteration?

Alter Carbon explores what if we effectively have immorality courtesy of being able to backup our "soul" like we back up a database.

So ... while most of the aforementioned cyberpunk fiction borrow heavily from Blade Runner's aesthetic, they nonetheless present new concepts to explore and/or explore previously explored concepts from a novel angle. That's what allows them to stand on their own.

CP2077 is engaging because it has a relatively well paced story but that's all there is to it. When it comes to exploring ideas, it's nothing that we haven't seen before. It doesn't present anything new.
 
Somebody asks for game recommendations and the thread gets derailed by people, who in all honesty proclaim that Blade Runner is "not cyberpunk":ROFLMAO:

Gotta love the internet.

"Cyberpunk is a subgenre of science fiction in a dystopian futuristic setting that tends to focus on a "combination of low-life and high tech" featuring advanced technological and scientific achievements, such as artificial intelligence and cybernetics, juxtaposed with a degree of breakdown or radical change in the social order."

Thanks for clearing that up Wikipedia.


As for a recommendation, since you asked for immersion I would suggest Disco Elysium. It's different since it's a top-down 2D game but I can't remember the last time I was immersed in an RPG like I was in Disco Elysium. That game is 100% about *roleplaying*. Something that CP2077 actually really isn't.

If by immersion you mean an impressive 3D city that you can walk through, it may not be what you're looking for though.
 
Skyrim will stand strong pretty much as long as it's mod community and the game with all the graphic mods is really something to behold even today. Oblivion is also a good one with strong RPG elements but with more date graphics or just wait for the Skyblivion mod which redoes Oblivion in the Skyrim engine. The closest new TES we gonna get is from the mod community xD since I doubt Bethesda will release something in the next 2 years or so but lets hope Microsoft will pressure em since they gotta get those $7.5 billion back somehow.
Post automatically merged:

Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines is also a RPG worth always recomending in my mind. It's not so much an open world but a really good RPG based on the pnp World of Darkness game. Good writing, dark atmosphere and gets you pretty good immersed in playing vampire in that world.

I fell in love with modding Skyrim at first but it introduced a lot of stability issues after a while.
Post automatically merged:

Hey, don't knock it, this games future could be the future of CP, should CDPR not survive this debacle... or should they end up dropping the game to cut their losses. Not likely, but it could happen. Then it would be on the community and modders to save it, just as Bloodline's did. ;)

Lol, the game is way too close to being done.
 
Cyberpunk 2077 is basically fantasy Skyrim.

I recommend both Deus Ex modern games.

Metal Gear: Revengeance is also something very cyberpunk.
 
Top Bottom