Concerning GPS and hand-holding

[PsyCoil]

I don't share the high hopes that some people have here, I don't think this game can be "fixed" for the old school crowd.
As I and several others have mentioned already, the loot doesn't reward exploration. You can't go searching for that epic sword rumored to exist in our around Dragon's peak mountain or something like that. Why? Because it will be some level-scaled POS that's probably worse than Witcher gear anyway, there's no point.

I firmly believe that most of the elements were designed with the lowest common denominator in mind, to get as many newcomers as possible into the series. There's nothing wrong with that in itself, I just didn't get my Morrowind exploration itch scratched and I haven't for a long long time.

One thing they could have done to alleviate this problem was to make all the Witcher gear treasure hunts unreferenced. No starting point, no confirmation that these schematics even exist until you find them. Those treasure hunts already have some of the best location designs and very interesting small stories connected to them. They would have been perfect if they had been entirely hidden.

Very good points and I'm inclined to agree about the wishful thinking of the old fans.
I think Wild at Heart quest is a perfect example of how CDPR abused the Witcher senses mechanic. In this quest Geralt draws enough information to know where he should go but even If I was to disable the minimap and gps Geralt would still tell me exactly where I should go.

GUI or not - Geralt actually does all the thinking for you in quests.
"Footsteps... I should follow them."

 

[prottenstein]

What amuses me about most of the players is they think that when someone asks for more depth this exclude a more simplicistic approach at all.

So, it seems that the mere fact we are asking for directions should mean the quest marker and pathfinding has no place.

What other players and I are asking is the opposite: a deeper and more immersive system which also allows to be simplified.
Using directions (e.g. go north till you find the big stone , then turn left and go untill you reach the cave, etc. ) can be used with the waypoint and pathfinding track. With the current system we cannot turn the quest marker off, because we don't know to go.

 

[DarkH94]

i was hoping the quest system would be more like the two previous games

Don't wanna ruin your funny nostalgia trip, but it was exactly the same there, lol (maybe there were a few exceptions like the bridge troll quest in TW2).

 

[web-head91]

Don't wanna ruin your funny nostalgia trip, but it was exactly the same there, lol (maybe there were a few exceptions like the bridge troll quest in TW2).

well i do remember that the quest log was detailled enough to know where, and what you need to do in TW2 (haven't played the first in a while)

 

[jon7882]

And this is why quest markers should be an option, for people who don't have the time to seriously play an RPG in the way it's meant to be played.
But an option which doesn't compromise the complexity of the quest design.

Wait what? There is no such thing as "They Way it's Meant to be Played" in a rpg that's the point. THere is no right or wrong way.

 

[rikj1984]

Thats impressive. I've had many instances where I made a decision to do the same, but something mundane caused me to break the rule, such as dropping off Florens at the bank in Novigrad. I put that down to OCD, and me wanting to always having an empty 'other' tab after selling loot.

Now, did you actually go into the map and filter out all the signposts as well?

No, signposts are still on my map. I just don't use them. Most play sessions I set out headed to a certain objective either on foot, horseback or by boat....and three hours later I have done 6 other things, but never reached the original destination. Stuff comes up

 

[DNMR2K5]

I hope this trend will end soon, I know little children get scared when they are lost but I think everyone would at some point realize that it's a lot more interesting to look at the game world rather than at an interface, and that 'exploring' is not following a dot but finding things on your own.

Removing the mini map from the UI doesn't help, as Geralt isn't given enough if any information about where to go from the quest givers.

I hope you at CD Projekt Red will in your future games be mindful of how letting players explore on their own can benefit gameplay considerably.


Thank you for your time.

Personally, I would like to see a toggle/ choice to have both.

The fact of the matter is, that if any videogame, or any company wants to survive in a highly competitive field as the entertainment industry, you cannot carer to the hardcore crowd exclusively or you simply won't make enough from your game to cover the costs of maintaining your company, never-mind any profits from 2-5 yrs of work, simply because the hardcore gaming crowd doesn't make the entirety of the user base.

At the same token, you cannot survive either by catering to full mediocrity by excessive hand-holding thereby turning your game into an interactive screen saver!

The key is to have balance, much like TW2 had several modes custom made for the hardcore micromanagement crowd and old school middle-age gamers who do not have the same reflexes as they had in their 20-30s, and even for the casual gamer who isn't bound to his apt for weeks on end like the rest of us...So while I fully agree and support nerfing hand-holding GPS game play for you guys, I would rather it be made an option, as I don't want to see this company go the same route as Obsidian/Bioware, then we'll ALL be fucked!

Understand that this company is doing quite well (As well as Poland in general) which is why this company cannot afford to get whored out to an EA type situation.

 

[Christopherrolf]

Well, I agree.

I don't mind an in-game GPS. As long as it is optional.

 

[GerardofRiviera]

You shouldn't have to be "forced" to do anything. Odds are if you're playing a game lime this you're paying attention anyways.

 

[Tuco]

Don't wanna ruin your funny nostalgia trip, but it was exactly the same there, lol (maybe there were a few exceptions like the bridge troll quest in TW2).

Yep. No idea why people started to idealize the past games way beyond their actual merits just to make a point about the third. I've been noticing this for a while.

well i do remember that the quest log was detailled enough to know where, and what you need to do in TW2 (haven't played the first in a while)

Sure, it was detailed (sometimes even too much, drawing conclusions for you).
Not that it did matter much in that case, though, with everything being at most fifteen meters away and a lot less to do in general.

 

[simonsteele]

What amuses me about most of the players is they think that when someone asks for more depth this exclude a more simplicistic approach at all.

So, it seems that the mere fact we are asking for directions should mean the quest marker and pathfinding has no place.

What other players and I are asking is the opposite: a deeper and more immersive system which also allows to be simplified.
Using directions (e.g. go north till you find the big stone , then turn left and go untill you reach the cave, etc. ) can be used with the waypoint and pathfinding track. With the current system we cannot turn the quest marker off, because we don't know to go.

Hell, it could be less than that sometimes too. Sometimes questgivers could be like "I don't know, check the cemetery west of here." And leave it at that. Or even "I heard it was around town somewhere." Leaving you to search everywhere around town. Depending on the quest sometimes you get detailed instructions, sometimes you don't. But you always get a general nudge.

 

[RC-07]

I hope the trend stays, not interested in constantly opening the map. Besides, I just look at the objective point and run straight ahead, admiring the view.

 

[simonsteele]

I hope the trend stays, not interested in constantly opening the map. Besides, I just look at the objective point and run straight ahead, admiring the view.

I'm not really sure why people don't listen to the argument--you can have BOTH. Right now the game is ONLY built for GPS. We would like the option to be able to play without it, realistically. Have characters in game give us directions. I'm not sure why this is hard and we have to keep rehashing this.

 

[Brogan80]

not interested in constantly opening the map. Besides, I just look at the objective point and run straight ahead, admiring the view.

- said every Let's Play youtuber, ever

 

[DakonBlackblade]

Not having GPS for main quests and sidequest would make things extremely frustrating for everyone including ppl asking for GPS to go away. Any quest that require you to go on some land far away would result in a massive amount of players getting lost, wandering in circles and feelinng super frustrated. We, the players, are not Witchers ourselves, we dont have some super developed tracking skill, awesome sense of direction, military grade positioning knowledge and wilderness survival skills wich are all pretty much required if youre trying to find a cave in the middle of nowhere in a hughe open landscape with no particular glaring landmarks nearby for example.

The result of no GPS would be either ppl getting lost or everywhere you need to go being coincidentaly close to some sort of landmark and not too far from where you got the quest or not too far off the beaten path.

I wholeheartedly agree that the Treasure Hunter quests tough should be devoid of GPS, its not much of a hunt if the iten location is already marked on your map. Witcher contracts should have no GPS too, they should make you rely 100% on Geralts Witchers sense and the players wits not ping anything on the map.

 

[DNMR2K5]

I'm not really sure why people don't listen to the argument--you can have BOTH. Right now the game is ONLY built for GPS. We would like the option to be able to play without it, realistically. Have characters in game give us directions. I'm not sure why this is hard and we have to keep rehashing this.

Agreed, because both types of gamers (Hell, better yet, four types of gamers!) will hopefully buy the same game, thereby financing this excellent company to provide us with more games!...


Instead of sitting on the fence, I simply use the gate at anytime of my choosing!

 

[Tuco]

I'm not really sure why people don't listen to the argument--you can have BOTH. Right now the game is ONLY built for GPS. We would like the option to be able to play without it, realistically. Have characters in game give us directions. I'm not sure why this is hard and we have to keep rehashing this.

Bingo, I'm not sure why the typical counter argument is something like"go away, you crazy hardcore masochists! I don't want to engage in the frustrating activities of paying attention and thinking".

No one here is asking to remove the GPS as the mandatory default for everyone. The request is simply: "Please, design and playtest your quests to work without that degree of hand-holding", with the implied corollary that anyone who wants to self-indulge in these simplifications could *still* activate all the markers, exactly as they work right now.

 

[numibago]

Honestly i really wouldn't like using a compass to navigate, mostly because the game world is so huge. You can't even compare it to games like Gothic or Morrowind in terms of size, and navigating with help from landmarks wouldn't be very helpful either because there aren't enough of them or they are just too spread out.
I do agree however that the game goes a bit over the top when it comes to quest markers for everything. Treasure Hunts are a bit different though. If they shouldn't have markers, then there should be no maps for them, or even quests. Otherwise it makes no sense. Why would you buy a treasure map if all it did was add a quest and leave you to find the location on your own?
For those who do want to play the game without quest markers though, they should be able to do so. And no, players shouldn't have to depend on mods to change this especially when the REDKit isn't out yet. Surely it couldn't be too hard to remove quest markers as an option for those who want it.

 

[Tuco]

Well, in reality it may require a bit more effort than that, because as already pointed during the thread isn't really a matter of just "removing the markers", it would require to add useful information for the player. *Especially* on your journal, since you are not necessarily going to follow on a quest immediately after accepting it and having a dialogue with an NPC.

We aren't really talking about super-elaborate stuff, to be honest. At times instructions like "Search the area near the well at north of Crow's Perch" (note: fictional example not related to any actual quest) would suffice, rather than having your journal stating just "Search THIS AREA" (where "this area" is a small yellow circle visualized ONLY if you don't turn the minimap and the markers off)

 

[foxyrick]

Bingo, I'm not sure why the typical counter argument is something like"go away, you crazy hardcore masochists! I don't want to engage in the frustrating activities of paying attention and thinking".

No one here is asking to remove the GPS as the mandatory default for everyone. The request is simply: "Please, design and playtest your quests to work without that degree of hand-holding", with the implied corollary that anyone who wants to self-indulge in these simplifications could *still* activate all the markers, exactly as they work right now.

Sounds right to me.

Some of the things I enjoyed in W2 were where, for a specific example, we had to find a virgin, or a certain guard, and actually had to run around talking to random people without a pointer over their heads and a trail in the GPS to lead us to them. That is missing from W3 yet there is so much potential for it.

It often feels to me like W3 is more towards an arcade-style action game in this respect, rather than a puzzle-solving RPG.