Concerns about population density in Novigrad and Oxenfurt ( video linked )

[lordshade55]

Concerns about population density in Novigrad and Oxenfurt ( video linked )

Hello, ( english is not my first language )

I just watched the playstation 4 footage which revealed some footage of Oxenfurt and Novigrad. Here is the link for those of you wondering:
<font color="#222222" face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(238, 238, 238);">

Now some people say the game got downgraded, i think it looks fine as it is for a game of this scale. However that said, i noticed something in the footage, which is the amount of people that are present on screen in the cities of Novigrad and Oxenfurt. My concern is that there doesn't seem to be allot of people walking on the streets.

Can someone ( or perphaps a developer ) elaborate on this concern.
Because when i compare it to the 35 minute gameplay trailer, shown below, the city of Novigrad looks allot more densely populated. It would be a shame to see these big cities where it feels like there aren't allot of people living there, or if they are, they are not present on screen, thus not giving the illusion of a dense populated city.

<span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font color="#222222">

Happy to hear some answers on that,

Cheers.

 

[sidspyker]

The day 1 patch notes state:

NPC spawn strategy improvements

I'm guessing it's probably related.

 

[wildspirit]

well by now, it's a known fact that CDPR has bowed before the lowest common denominator (being the console power) and had to cut A LOT of things from their first builds.

They had to develop the same game for every platform for whatever reasons, so as usual, we get something that can fit console and PC just get the leftover.

CDPR was one of the last studio I trusted but now... I'm not so sure sadly =(

The day 1 patch notes state:


I'm guessing it's probably related.

not so sure it's related to density, but more to draw distance don't you think? I've seen NPCS poping out of nowhere on consoles footage and sometimes on the PC stream tonight.

NPCs density is something that can heavily impact stability (especially on console hardware) and I would not be suprised they just gutted it.

 

[sidspyker]

it's a known fact

:rly?:

It is a well known fact that we're trying to discuss a topic here, addressing a concern, let's not create boogeymen.

 

[lordshade55]

well by now, it's a known fact that CDPR has bowed before the lowest common denominator (being the console power) and had to cut A LOT of things from their first builds.

They had to develop the same game for every platform for whatever reasons, so as usual, we get something that can fit console and PC just get the leftover.

CDPR was one of the last studio I trusted but now... I'm not so sure sadly =(

Graphics don't make a game. The legend of zelda games don't have terrific graphics, yet they are very atmospheric. Another example is xenoblade chronicles. You don't need state of the art graphics to make a believable world. But if you have giant cities, it's important for suspension of disbelief that it looks like there are allot of npc's walking around.
Atmosphere -----------> graphics.

Never been concerned about the graphics, it looks great. Yes not like 2013, but who cares. Mods will solve that problem.

However, like i said, i rather trade some textures for more npc's in these big cities. Especially because they are so big, it is more noticable.

As that tiny issue can ruin suspension of disbelief. That's very important in Rpg's. Skyrim for example fails with certain aspects of this, with it's tiny cities. The capital of Skyrim is for example one little street with a marketplace.

Witcher solved this mainly by creating cities that are on a more realistic scale. It would be a shame however if it wouldn't be as dense populated. It would create the exact problem as Skyrim did, but then in a different context.

And let's not derail this into another downgrade thread.

 

[OliverDK]

I actually wondered that too. I would find it a shame and frankly disappointing to have these huge impressive cities and then have so few people there as shown in that video. That was actually one of the few things AC:U did right with the impressive density of NPCs in Paris. I had hoped for that in Novigrad and Oxenfurt and it is worrisome that they feel so empty.

But as @sidspyker mentions maybe the patch will bring more life back.

 

[sidspyker]

NPCs density is something that can heavily impact stability (especially on console hardware) and I would not be suprised they just gutted it.

True but the patch notes also mention performance improvements and such, wait and see when the patch is out I guess? My bet's on the side of - it'll increase the density. (And no I didn't watch the video so idk what it's like now)

 

[Wolfmeister1010]

We can't expect the same amount of density like AC Unity. That is too far-this engine is not built to support like 2000 NPCs on screen, that has never been the intention.

 

[TheWildFish]

Might it be to do with the time of day? I'm guessing the number of people out on the streets will depend heavily on time of day and they maybe weren't walking round at peak time for that. Just an idea.

 

[misho8723]

If atleast there are as many NPCs in those cities like in the 35 minute demo.. that would be great, because right now it seems from reviews that for such big cities there isn't many NPCs to make them feel as alive and full of live as they should have, mainly Novigrad
And I have seen scenes from Novigrad or Oxenfurt at day, where there should have been many NPCs on the streets.. Vizima in TW1 looked so big and full of live mainly because of many NPCs

 

[lordshade55]

We can't expect the same amount of density like AC Unity. That is too far-this engine is not built to support like 2000 NPCs on screen, that has never been the intention.

Never claimed it had to be like that , the 35 minutes gamplay footage doesn't show the density the AC games have. I doubt current gen could deliver the npc density AC has with a full open world RPG.

However, it looks to me it's changed, and that would be a shame. I rather take an instanced novigrad and Oxenfurt with a good density, then open world design where you can't give players a suspense of disbelief/illusion of a dense populated city.

If the game engine couldn't deliver that, then why not drop a few textures, or perphaps instance it. I know that's against the nature of open world design, but still.... I take substance over style anyday.

 

[Firecracker22]

well by now, it's a known fact that CDPR has bowed before the lowest common denominator (being the console power) and had to cut A LOT of things from their first builds..

A known fact? How so?

"Bowed before" is a nice turn of phrase too. I like that.

 

[zanderb19]

I saw an comparison screenshot between the "fish market" from the 35minute video and ps4 gameplay. The 35 minute video had atleast like 30+ NPC, but the ps4 version had just 3 npc!!

 

[lordshade55]

I saw an comparison screenshot between the "fish market" from the 35minute video and ps4 gameplay. The 35 minute video had atleast like 30+ NPC, but the ps4 version had just 3 npc!!

I agree, i saw the same thing. These massive cities accentuate that problem, and when you only have a few npc's running around, it's just going to look empty ( says nothing about the content ).

 

[wildspirit]

Just look at older builds of the game and recent footage.You can't expect this lack of npc's all around to be just a bug they have not see coming.

And for the "bowed before" I'm not sure it was the right turn of phrase, English is not my native langage and I'm kind of tired right now ^^

 

[Lightice]

This is the one graphical issue that in any way bothers me in the previews, and I hope they get it improved at least for the PC version. They seem to be able to spawn reasonable crowds in the wilderness, so it shouldn't be an impassable issue in the cities, either.

 

[Phinnway]

@lordshade55 They've said in the past Novigrad has over 7,000 NPCs in it, though I can't remember when exactly they said that. Either way, I assume it's won't be scarce.

 

[Ljesnjanin]

I am concerned too...We've seen a lot of 'population' so far, but no Fringilla...Sad.

 

[lordshade55]

@lordshade55 They've said in the past Novigrad has over 7,000 NPCs in it, though I can't remember when exactly they said that. Either way, I assume it's won't be scarce.

My question, and directly concern, is if that's still the case.
Judging and comparing the recent videos, i say it looks allot less dense.

That's why i hope i'm able to be proved wrong.

 

[wildspirit]

Would it be so difficult to have some sort of adjustment slider for population density, minimum being the console counterpart, and being able to go to a maximum set by the dev and dependant on our rig?