Constructive opinions based on the gameplay videos that are released in 2015 (NO DOWNGRADE TALK)

[Geralt_of_bsas]

Yeah we cant really trust the journalists much, they tend to really miss a lot, many of them describe WS as batman's vision for example, but they also say the combat is basically the same as TW2 combat, which is major bs of course.

However, it is true that they are likely less "hardcore" than us, and so if they think something is amazing maybe it really isnt (skyrim, DAI, etc), and if they think its too simple and dumb, well.... it can go either way, they are idiots not realizing of the depth and detail, or the game is such a disaster of casual dumbing down that even them think its too much xD. I hope its the former of course.

 

[ONLY_ONCE]

All I am concerned about (even if some so called "journalists" reported otherwise) is that the game will end up too casual and too much for the "wider audience"

They want a wider audience, they are on both consoles now. If they make this game to hard like dark souls or lords of the fallen, it's going to turn a lot of people off, even me. It should not matter to you if easy/normal are more casual in nature, because the few hardcore gamers like you, will have your hard/dark mode.

 

[Sagitarii]

They want a wider audience, they are on both consoles now. If they make this game to hard like dark souls or lords of the fallen, it's going to turn a lot of people off, even me. It should not matter to you if easy/normal are more casual in nature, because the few hardcore gamers like you, will have your hard/dark mode.

You have the point, although it pains me that nowadays difficulty levels don't correspond with their names at all.
The games should not be catered to casuals. Nor they should be catered to hardcore players. Both types of players (and, well, the players in the middle of the spectrum), should have a mode for themselves.

 

[Kassandrian]

It shows how difficult it is to finetune such a mechanic.

I really hope this gets to revision, or we just saw the tutorial part where it is very imminent and is "forced" on you for tutorial reasons, who knows.
However I feel it seems to easy to let this get out of hand:
hunt a monstrer = find red dots + questmarker
solve quest = find red dots plus questmarker
...
this will end like a lot of open world games where instead of actually describing the quest the game only gives you the marker and says "go here", but this time it'll be "go here on this path".
This will make quests feel way more repetitive than any fetchquest, because the sense of acutally "solving" the quest will be missing - independent of the way the quest is served by the surroundings. Which would go against their initial vow to make quests interesting and unique.

I choose to trust them that it wont get out of hands like in batman, but im not sure anymore. some Dev-feedback would be nice.

to tune down the mechanic (maybe) - eliminate the different colors for the soundsources and make the "activationradius" for questmarkers way, way smaller - so we are forced to follow the tracks (so the general questmarker gives an wider area, or signals the exact location only after enough localization).
Now let the tracks be only visible if the creature was there some while ago, or we have some sort of "clue" found.
And PLEASE! let the witcher senses lead us into traps, this will make the player wary - not blindly trusting the guidefunction will increase the tension during the quest which will increase the reward felt, just my opinion

 

[thislsmadness]

Even the part about enhanced hearing looked like it was too simple and hand holdy. I think when you catch a particular sound its origin appears in the screen with a marker of some sorts, thats what I remember from the MS E3 demo. Actually, watching that demo again, a crow's sound mixes with the griffin sound, but the system literally shows the crow sound in white markers, and the griffin one in red, seriously do we really need THAT amount of help? Its doing practically everything for you.

They could've just made the sound of monsters or enemies separated from the enhanced ambient sounds and tie it closely to the surround effect, or whatever its called when you can clearly tell something is coming from left or right, front or back, instead of using visual cues.

I don't necessarily have a big issue with the "Witcher sense" pinpointing things in the environment. The guy was able to pinpoint Elven archers breathing in trees, he could even tell that one recently had a cold based on the breathing pattern. So being able to distinguish between a crow and a Griffin shouldn't be something he even has to think about. For the most part, its not even that different than the medallion in the second game.

What I want is for them to do something more fun+compelling with it than: go here> game says "USE YOUR WITCHER SENSE" > use Witcher sense to highlight the quest item> leave. I really liked how it was used during the Griffin Hunt since, as far as I could see, the game never prompted the player to use the Witcher senses. If its a case where I'm running around and I spot something interesting then I initiate the Witcher sense on my own, I think thats fine.

 

[red36]

That sounds right madness. Geralt is like a dog with his sense of sound and smell. Off hand i forget if thats naturally or because of his potions, but i believe its the former since the later is so seldom referred to. Therefore, as an RPG, what is natural for Geralt is natural for the player. The challenge comes from the fact that Geralt still finds many things challenging, just discerning between griffons and deer is not one of them.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

I don't necessarily have a big issue with the "Witcher sense" pinpointing things in the environment. The guy was able to pinpoint Elven archers breathing in trees, he could even tell that one recently had a cold based on the breathing pattern. So being able to distinguish between a crow and a Griffin shouldn't be something he even has to think about. For the most part, its not even that different than the medallion in the second game.

What I want is for them to do something more fun+compelling with it than: go here> game says "USE YOUR WITCHER SENSE" > use Witcher sense to highlight the quest item> leave. I really liked how it was used during the Griffin Hunt since, as far as I could see, the game never prompted the player to use the Witcher senses. If its a case where I'm running around and I spot something interesting then I initiate the Witcher sense on my own, I think thats fine.

I have two personal problems with what you said:

1) No matter what Geralt can or cant do lore and story wise, the player has to do something, otherwise its not a game, and that something has to have a challenge, otherwise its not a game, and probably wont be fun. I totally agree with what you said about his skills, but its inconvenient to let the game take care of so many things, leaving you little to enjoy doing. There are many things Geralt doesnt even need to think about, like using Igni against a fire elemental, yet in the game we can do that precisely, because its up to us, and thats part of the fun/freedom/challenge.

2) While Geralt can easily distinguish that, the ability isnt well reproduced in the game, because it translates it into visual feedback, not using audio. So it does kind of break the immersion, the markers that easily distinguish the crow and the griffin are not for geralt and geralt does not see them, those are for the player, so the way Geralt can tell about the difference is never actually used in the game.

Thats just my personal opinion, Its not like it super bothers me, not at all, but it could be done so much better that it pisses me of a bit because of wasted potential, there is no need to solve things like this.

After that I totally agree with you.

 

[thislsmadness]

I have two personal problems with what you said:

1) No matter what Geralt can or cant do lore and story wise, the player has to do something, otherwise its not a game, and that something has to have a challenge, otherwise its not a game, and probably wont be fun. I totally agree with what you said about his skills, but its inconvenient to let the game take care of so many things, leaving you little to enjoy doing. There are many things Geralt doesnt even need to think about, like using Igni against a fire elemental, yet in the game we can do that precisely, because its up to us, and thats part of the fun/freedom/challenge.

2) While Geralt can easily distinguish that, the ability isnt well reproduced in the game, because it translates it into visual feedback, not using audio. So it does kind of break the immersion, the markers that easily distinguish the crow and the griffin are not for geralt and geralt does not see them, those are for the player, so the way Geralt can tell about the difference is never actually used in the game.

Thats just my personal opinion, Its not like it super bothers me, not at all, but it could be done so much better that it pisses me of a bit because of wasted potential, there is no need to solve things like this.

After that I totally agree with you.

1. The point is that lore and gameplay do not have to run contrary to one another. The idea that Witcher senses are there to "simulate" Geralt's ability to see, hear, and smell things well beyond that of a normal person is a good concept. What matter isn't that it highlights a few items of interest in the environment, what matters is the actual gameplay application. That is why I point to the Griffin as an example of good usage. In the video the player is the one initiating the use of the Witcher senses, the game isnt automatically doing it or even providing prompts to suggest it. That experience appears to be player driven. The fact that it highlights the blood is not at all an issue for me -- "Pixelhunting" is a mechanic I have zero reverence for.

2. If they want to convey Geralt's ability to pinpoint exactly where/what a sound is coming from then it kinda has to be visual. Likewise, any smells we encounter would also need some visual representation because there are practical limitations on how we can interact with Geralt's world.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

1. The point is that lore and gameplay do not have to run contrary to one another. The idea that Witcher senses are there to "simulate" Geralt's ability to see, hear, and smell things well beyond that of a normal person is a good concept. What matter isn't that it highlights a few items of interest in the environment, what matters is the actual gameplay application. That is why I point to the Griffin as an example of good usage. In the video the player is the one initiating the use of the Witcher senses, the game isnt automatically doing it or even providing prompts to suggest it. That experience appears to be player driven. The fact that it highlights the blood is not at all an issue for me -- "Pixelhunting" is a mechanic I have zero reverence for.

2. If they want to convey Geralt's ability to pinpoint exactly where/what a sound is coming from then it kinda has to be visual. Likewise, any smells we encounter would also need some visual representation because there are practical limitations on how we can interact with Geralt's world.

1: I agree but the gameplay application precisely is something that suffers when you make it too easy and simple, explicit even, because the mechanic is not just a tool, but its a tool that has to allow some degree of work from the player and chance of failure or at least not being entirely and perfectly controlled at will, thats the difference between a game and a toy for example. WS work perfectly when its player driven, sure, we can agree, but working isnt enough, it has to work in a way that supplements the system with something valuable and interesting to be part of. The whole deal with tracks, marks in the environment, dead bodies and their story, sounds, etc, all make for terrific opportunities to tie WS with Monster Hunting preparation, lore learning and other activities, its a shame that in favor of more "accurate" simulation of Geralt's senses gameplay has to be sacrificed to such a big deegre. I there is a much better balance possible.

2: Yeah im with you, if it has to be super precise, it has to be visual in this case, I don't think precision is needed since its a gameplay detriment, but yes, its either precision with visual hints or more vague but immersive with audio. I just personally like the later.

 

[thislsmadness]

1: I agree but the gameplay application precisely is something that suffers when you make it too easy and simple, explicit even, because the mechanic is not just a tool, but its a tool that has to allow some degree of work from the player and chance of failure or at least not being entirely and perfectly controlled at will, thats the difference between a game and a toy for example. WS work perfectly when its player driven, sure, we can agree, but working isnt enough, it has to work in a way that supplements the system with something valuable and interesting to be part of. The whole deal with tracks, marks in the environment, dead bodies and their story, sounds, etc, all make for terrific opportunities to tie WS with Monster Hunting preparation, lore learning and other activities, its a shame that in favor of more "accurate" simulation of Geralt's senses gameplay has to be sacrificed to such a big deegre. I there is a much better balance possible.

2: Yeah im with you, if it has to be super precise, it has to be visual in this case, I don't think precision is needed since its a gameplay detriment, but yes, its either precision with visual hints or more vague but immersive with audio. I just personally like the later.

1. I agree that there needs to be good balance, these things are a sum of all parts. Witcher Sense alone should not trivialize the game unless CDPR intends for it to be simple and easy. They can make Geralt impervious to all damage and if the entire challenge leans on that mechanic, then its bad design. However, if they can make Geralt impervious and then put him in situations where he must protect others... suddenly, that entire dynamic has changed. This is why I'm saying that the Witcher senses highlighting things in the environment aren't the issue, the concept of "simulating Geralt's senses" is good. The issue is the benign bits that seem to surround it in the those 3hr impressions. where its go to the quest marker> use witcher sense>collect item>complete task... The witcher sense is not the problem, its the combination of that and the quest marker that throws the balance off. It would be better if they just circle an area of the map and then let you utilize a combination of the Witcher sense and clues to find the exact location.

2. I dont see how its a detriment. I assume that audio cues are also still there and you have to make the choice to mash the Witcher sense button to even see it. I suppose immersion is such a highly subjective thing, we all have our own tolerances and preferences. The other day I saw someone suggesting they put in a first person mode because its more "immersive", and hes probably right but I could never fathom playing the game like that.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

1. I agree that there needs to be good balance, these things are a sum of all parts. Witcher Sense alone should not trivialize the game unless CDPR intends for it to be simple and easy. They can make Geralt impervious to all damage and if the entire challenge leans on that mechanic, then its bad design. However, if they can make Geralt impervious and then put him in situations where he must protect others... suddenly, that entire dynamic has changed. This is why I'm saying that the Witcher senses highlighting things in the environment aren't the issue, the concept of "simulating Geralt's senses" is good. The issue is the benign bits that seem to surround it in the those 3hr impressions. where its go to the quest marker> use witcher sense>collect item>complete task... The witcher sense is not the problem, its the combination of that and the quest marker that throws the balance off. It would be better if they just circle an area of the map and then let you utilize a combination of the Witcher sense and clues to find the exact location.

2. I dont see how its a detriment. I assume that audio cues are also still there and you have to make the choice to mash the Witcher sense button to even see it. I suppose immersion is such a highly subjective thing, we all have our own tolerances and preferences. The other day I saw someone suggesting they put in a first person mode because its more "immersive", and hes probably right but I could never fathom playing the game like that.

1: yes i agree, i have no problem with WS and its concept, as I said, its ripe with great potential, but indeed the balance is what makes or breaks things many times, I just hope WS doesn't become merely a synonymous of more/better markers.

2: The audio cues are there but they are useless and irrelevant, because of a "gameplay solution" (visual hints), when instead, both could be combined for a better result, audio cues that better represent Greal't hearing AND that they allow you to play with them to track monsters and/or recognize them. I'm not really one of those hardcore immersion or realism fanatics, but one thing that tends to bother me is unnecessary stuff that takes away from the experience when it could totally be avoided, and I feel this is that kind of case. The first person guys are crazy xD

 

[Eisheiliger]

I mostly agree with your above statments, I find it strange that none of the npc's even looked at them riding through. The other thing that was kinda lame, was the sound and recorded distance of them talking. The voice actors are fine, but it didn't sound like they were outside yelling over there horse and the distance did not match their tone. I think RDR did a great job with this area of things, I hope TW3 can match that at least. Anyways... no worries about the hud, we can change that.

Now that you mention it - that's something else that should be worked on. If a game of 2010 can pull it off a game of 2015 should do as well.

 

[red36]

Regarding Witcher senses and the griffon sound, I think the issue is that the game chooses to use an icon to display the information rather than using visual cues. If instead of an icon, sound wave visuals reverberated around the direction the sound emanated (on the 2d plane of the screen if the object is off screen, or from the space itself if already looking at the origin point). This would A: feel less precise and therefore less like hand holding and more of an actual sensory experience and B: would forgo the use of another ICON on the screen TELLING you where things are.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

I'd really like to be able to reduce the distance of "information pop ups" like names of NPCs, race and animal types, herb names and such. I don't want to appear them on scree until I stand directly in front of the respective people or items (but I also don't want them to be totally invisible/non-existent).

And please, let us turn off highlight effects for items (if they somehow exist). For example, if I stand in front of a flower just give it a small name tag on top of it without any additional hightlights of the flower itself. I really hate these kind of immersion breakers and it would be very cool if we could turn them off...

 

[thislsmadness]

1: yes i agree, i have no problem with WS and its concept, as I said, its ripe with great potential, but indeed the balance is what makes or breaks things many times, I just hope WS doesn't become merely a synonymous of more/better markers.

2: The audio cues are there but they are useless and irrelevant, because of a "gameplay solution" (visual hints), when instead, both could be combined for a better result, audio cues that better represent Greal't hearing AND that they allow you to play with them to track monsters and/or recognize them. I'm not really one of those hardcore immersion or realism fanatics, but one thing that tends to bother me is unnecessary stuff that takes away from the experience when it could totally be avoided, and I feel this is that kind of case. The first person guys are crazy xD

1. Yeah, I hope that some of the more rote things we've heard are limited to the early parts of the game. If this game is 100hrs long they should expect players to have a master of the mechanics.

2. Yeah, they are lol... in any case, those sound waves just dont bother me in the least. As with anything, there is probably a more they could have done with it but, as is, I don't find it egregious.

I'd really like to be able to reduce the distance of "information pop ups" like names of NPCs, race and animal types, herb names and such. I don't want to appear them on space until I stand directly in front of them (but I also don't want them to be totally invisible/non-existent).

And please, let us turn off highlighted items (if they somehow exist). For example, if I stand in front of a flower just give it a small name tag on top of it without any additional hightlights of the flower itself. I really hate these kind of immersion breakers and it would be very cool if we could turn them off...

Yeah, the "name plates" are much more irksome for me. One of the previews mentioned that there was a "whole page" of options for customizing the hud so I hope that is an option.

I think the highlighting is only present if you are actively holding down the the Witcher sense button, it doesnt seem to persist the way it did in Witcher 2... which is something I did not like.

 

[Nenous]

Something that really stood out to myself, was seeing a ship come into port, it's small details like that, which will define Witcher3 from all other games.

 

[barzozwierz]

Love the music and the visuals. I do hope fonts and icons will be changed, it reminds me more a mobile app than a game in feudal setting.
Why does Geralt need witcher senses anyway if the minimap shows exactly where to go? Fingers crossed hand-holding is an option, not a feature.
Search for Ciri seems more like a main plot than a side-quest. If that's really the case, I'm quite disturbed, one choice in 35 minute gameplay? No, I do not count the paths Geralt can take to move from point A to B (unless there is an additional quest/plot twist/insight into crone's or spirit's identity on one of the paths) or how many times some peasant chooses to snort in his daily cycle.

Currently playing Witcher 2 for the very first time in my life*. Love the game so far, even tho the atmosphere in 1st game was more magical (bring back slavic bestiary, dragons are boring as hell), WH recaptured it somehow - at least in this video.
I don't believe in open world games, interesting ones are like virgins or unicorns... but I'll keep open mind

*) after having my heart broken by DA:I

 

[gtxman]

Love the music and the visuals. I do hope fonts and icons will be changed, it reminds me more a mobile app than a game in feudal setting.
Why does Geralt need witcher senses anyway if the minimap shows exactly where to go? Fingers crossed hand-holding is an option, not a feature.
Search for Ciri seems more like a main plot than a side-quest. If that's really the case, I'm quite disturbed, one choice in 35 minute gameplay? No, I do not count the paths Geralt can take to move from point A to B (unless there is an additional quest/plot twist/insight into crone's or spirit's identity on one of the paths) or how many times some peasant chooses to snort in his daily cycle.

Currently playing Witcher 2 for the very first time in my life*. Love the game so far, even tho the atmosphere in 1st game was more magical (bring back slavic bestiary, dragons are boring as hell), WH recaptured it somehow - at least in this video.
I don't believe in open world games, interesting ones are like virgins or unicorns... but I'll keep open mind

*) after having my heart broken by DA:I

whats wrong with DA:I?

 

[dragonbird]

whats wrong with DA:I?

The main thing that's wrong with DA:I is that there are far too many threads that divert into off-topic discussions about it. So not this one, thank you.

 

[Medy89]

It shows how difficult it is to finetune such a mechanic.

I really hope this gets to revision, or we just saw the tutorial part where it is very imminent and is "forced" on you for tutorial reasons, who knows.
However I feel it seems to easy to let this get out of hand:
hunt a monstrer = find red dots + questmarker
solve quest = find red dots plus questmarker
...
this will end like a lot of open world games where instead of actually describing the quest the game only gives you the marker and says "go here", but this time it'll be "go here on this path".
This will make quests feel way more repetitive than any fetchquest, because the sense of acutally "solving" the quest will be missing - independent of the way the quest is served by the surroundings. Which would go against their initial vow to make quests interesting and unique.

I choose to trust them that it wont get out of hands like in batman, but im not sure anymore. some Dev-feedback would be nice.

to tune down the mechanic (maybe) - eliminate the different colors for the soundsources and make the "activationradius" for questmarkers way, way smaller - so we are forced to follow the tracks (so the general questmarker gives an wider area, or signals the exact location only after enough localization).
Now let the tracks be only visible if the creature was there some while ago, or we have some sort of "clue" found.
And PLEASE! let the witcher senses lead us into traps, this will make the player wary - not blindly trusting the guidefunction will increase the tension during the quest which will increase the reward felt, just my opinion

I think these witcher senses will point you and help find the right direction ... as we saw with the tree spirit , they dont guide you all the way so yeah... something in between ... keyword is "guide" ... no mayor handholding dont worry ... im positive there will be quest where you really need to think whats going on and use informations rather than your senses .. sometimes a mix of both ... this game is 18+ ^^ ...
I think they can do it ... after all its not intended for 12 yo kids who need glowing trails all over the place to not feel lost ..
They know stuff like this is key to not break immersion