Controversial topics addressed in games

[mouseno4]

Controversial topics addressed in games

With regards to the recent trailer that made it abundantly clear to the world that topics such as religious fanaticism, war crimes and racism along with the already known constant use of bad language, nudity and sex scenes in The Witcher Wild Hunt - why is it that there are so few games that come even close to touching these topics? That is not even mentioning the vicious violence that involves disembowelment, beheading and dismemberment etc.

Could it also be conceived that the lack of these things in games and to the degree that The Witcher Wild Hunt has them, is a good thing? That the simply rarity of games of this type and content makes this game unique? A ''one-off'' kind of game.

Before you reply, know that i personally have no problem with any of these, as long as it is put in context!

 

[damascus57]

I mean, I long for the day where there is a hugely successful AAA title that can be directly compared to "To Kill a Mockingbird" because that'll be the moment when all generations of people can appreciate what value interactivity adds to literature., and thus, will open up video games as a market to the more senior of our citizens.

Geralt would make a great Atticus Finch.

 

[shawn_kh]

We live in a violent and unfair world, and unfortunately all the "contriversial" topics that you mentioned exist in the world that we live in.
Many choose to ignore them, and many are forced to ignore them. But ignoring is not going to solve these issues, and these problems keep growing until it is too late to address them by non-violent means.
We have to acknowledge that these issues exist and avoid hiding them.

 

[mecha_fish]

It's possible that since these things were addressed in the books that the game is based on, it makes it easier to address the topics in a more lore-driven matter than an observation about reality.

Racism in fantasy games is not new, a recent example being Besthesda's Skyrim's reference to the racism experienced by the dark elves and probably other races within that universe as well. Not to mention Forgotten Realms universe portrating plenty of that. Just thought I'd bring that up -- to me those things pale to what has been actively addressed as a main plot for the previous two witcher games and potentially what's to come in the witcher 3.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

My opinion is that this is mostly a rarity because most games are still thought mainly as entertainment and less as art, and like so, entertainment has to entertain, and games because they are much more interactive than other media, are a perfect fit for ego boosting power-fantasies, and in such a fantasy, having a world with the struggles and complexity of the real world goes against that ideal.

This is especially true for RPGs btw, hence most RPGs have a relatively idealistic portrayal of the events that happen in them, even when it might be inter-planetary war like in Mass Effect, and actually, the whole JRPG genre is almost solely based on mostly idealism.

Once you remove the necessity of games to "make you feel powerful/the-best", a whole range of possibilities arises, and TW games explore things like dilemmas, struggles, the tough reality of making decisions and judging dubious and dangerous consequences, all things directly opposite to the joy of being always in control, like what other games tend to focus on.

I dont think games in general dont approach these subjects because they arent good, its just that they have different objectives.

 

[mouseno4]

It's possible that since these things were addressed in the books that the game is based on, it makes it easier to address the topics in a more lore-driven matter than an observation about reality.

Racism in fantasy games is not new, a recent example being Besthesda's Skyrim's reference to the racism experienced by the dark elves and probably other races within that universe as well. Not to mention Forgotten Realms universe portrating plenty of that. Just thought I'd bring that up -- to me those things pale to what has been actively addressed as a main plot for the previous two witcher games and potentially what's to come in the witcher 3.

I played those and know for a fact that the level these topics are addressed there are far outweighed by the level they are addressed in the Witcher games. The whole subject of racism is front and center in TW games.

TW3 is such a very mature game designed ONLY for mature adults. Completely without exception. No other game i know of, comes close to the level of mature topics observed in these games. Some recent games have touched on them of course, but nowhere near the same level.

It just seems like mature games - truly mature games that bring up ''dangerous'' topics - are so rare still.

 

[Ifrit30]

I think that's mainly because the Publishers are targeting the mainstream, getting as much people as possible to buy their games (i.e. COD series) and you can't do that with such sensitive and maybe complex topics.

That's probably the reason why CD Projekt are doing mature games, because it is lacking.

 

[Reventine]

I'm hoping the Witcher as a series will lead the way for more games to broach more sensitive real world topics.

I only hope they can pull it off with half as much skill.

 

[mouseno4]

I'm hoping the Witcher as a series will lead the way for more games to broach more sensitive real world topics.

I only hope they can pull it off with half as much skill.

This gets my stamp of approval.

 

[wichat]

My opinion is that this is mostly a rarity because most games are still thought mainly as entertainment and less as art, and like so, entertainment has to entertain, and games because they are much more interactive than other media, are a perfect fit for ego boosting power-fantasies, and in such a fantasy, having a world with the struggles and complexity of the real world goes against that ideal.

This is especially true for RPGs btw, hence most RPGs have a relatively idealistic portrayal of the events that happen in them, even when it might be inter-planetary war like in Mass Effect, and actually, the whole JRPG genre is almost solely based on mostly idealism.

Once you remove the necessity of games to "make you feel powerful/the-best", a whole range of possibilities arises, and TW games explore things like dilemmas, struggles, the tough reality of making decisions and judging dubious and dangerous consequences, all things directly opposite to the joy of being always in control, like what other games tend to focus on.

I dont think games in general dont approach these subjects because they arent good, its just that they have different objectives.

And because the first gamer generation has grow up, and CDPR belong to this generation and they know what we'd like to find in a good game. They've done it and at the same time they are showing to big publisher that mature games with closer stories will be well sold.

 

[caspartine]

And because the first gamer generation has grow up, and CDPR belong to this generation and they know what we'd like to find in a good game. They've done it and at the same time they are showing to big publisher that mature games with closer stories will be well sold.

Exactly what I mentioned in a similar topic few days ago. The first generation of gamers has grown up, we have families now, but we still like to play games. But we don't want to stomp mushrooms anymore, so it is only logical there are games that are focused on us, or let's say "grown" as well. We certainly aren't the majority, but it's good there are games developed with this in mind.

 

[RedFire01]

Exactly what I mentioned in a similar topic few days ago. The first generation of gamers has grown up, we have families now, but we still like to play games. But we don't want to stomp mushrooms anymore, so it is only logical there are games that are focused on us, or let's say "grown" as well. We certainly aren't the majority, but it's good there are games developed with this in mind.

Um, but that IS the majority of Gamers though.

 

[warbaby2]

Um, but that IS the majority of Gamers though.

It is for certain games, not all of them...

 

[mecha_fish]

I played those and know for a fact that the level these topics are addressed there are far outweighed by the level they are addressed in the Witcher games. The whole subject of racism is front and center in TW games.

TW3 is such a very mature game designed ONLY for mature adults. Completely without exception. No other game i know of, comes close to the level of mature topics observed in these games. Some recent games have touched on them of course, but nowhere near the same level.

It just seems like mature games - truly mature games that bring up ''dangerous'' topics - are so rare still.

I agree completely. When I first saw the post, I thought 'pfff' RPGs have had that content for years, but when it comes to maturely addressing them and down to solidly whether one should become involved with these things or not, actively making decisions... I can't think of many games that address it, let alone that thoroughly.

Then there's religious fanaticism -- I think this is also on about the same par as racism in other RPGs. It exists, but it doesn't mean anything. Seeing as how the sorceror's council playing out badly at the end of tw2 shows what we can expect from relgious fanaticism, I think. Not to mention in that intro video (the one with the cartoon style, old man talking to the masses about the conjunction and everything) had some heavily Nilfgaardian religious propaganda against witchers and sorcerers... it seems pretty heavy.

And I can bet that the war crimes mentioned in the books will definitely leave grounding for more serious discussion of these things in tw3. I'm very excited these things are (probably) going to be properly addressed.

 

[mouseno4]

I agree completely. When I first saw the post, I thought 'pfff' RPGs have had that content for years, but when it comes to maturely addressing them and down to solidly whether one should become involved with these things or not, actively making decisions... I can't think of many games that address it, let alone that thoroughly.

Then there's religious fanaticism -- I think this is also on about the same par as racism in other RPGs. It exists, but it doesn't mean anything. Seeing as how the sorceror's council playing out badly at the end of tw2 shows what we can expect from relgious fanaticism, I think. Not to mention in that intro video (the one with the cartoon style, old man talking to the masses about the conjunction and everything) had some heavily Nilfgaardian religious propaganda against witchers and sorcerers... it seems pretty heavy.

And I can bet that the war crimes mentioned in the books will definitely leave grounding for more serious discussion of these things in tw3. I'm very excited these things are (probably) going to be properly addressed.

One of the prime examples of this was Dorian from Dragon Age Inquisition.

Spoiler alert for that game

Spoiler

He is a gay character who is shunned by his parents for his ''habits''. They ignored him, locked him away and tried to force him to change. Not only that, but you get to choose how it ends! That is one hell of a controversial subject if ever i saw one. But it took a AAA game to take such a huge risk with this particular subject.

This kind of tackling of the controversial subjects is just so rare in games. Its almost like developers just want to please anyone and everyone at the same time, without ever delving into the moral questions like Star Trek was well known for.

 

[tahirahmed]

One of the prime examples of this was Dorian from Dragon Age Inquisition.

Spoiler alert for that game

Use spoiler tag next time please

Spoiler

like this

 

[warbaby2]

Yea, only that in Dragon Age it's too "on the nose"... I mean, the fact that the player even has to "deal" with it. Why? It's the same with the trans character... why do games like the Dragon Age series feel the need to "educate" the player on it's controversial topics. Movies don't do that... it just feels so pandering and condescending.

 

[dragonbird]

Yea, only that in Dragon Age it's too "on the nose"... I mean, the fact that the player even has to "deal" with it. Why? It's the same with the trans character... why do games like the Dragon Age series feel the need to "educate" the player on it's controversial topics. Movies don't do that... it just feels so pandering and condescending.

I think this is one reason why it's a problem. Games are all about choice and consequence, so how does a developer handle something like this? Do you give choice and consequences? That could lead to a lot of negative publicity if one of those choices is to play as a bigot, which would definitely be seen as moving from "game depicts a racist/sexist/whatever world" to "game encourages racism/sexism". On the other hand, if you force the player into taking a NON-bigoted stand, you run the risk of being seen as pandering and condescending, the problem you mention.

It takes a good writer to avoid falling into either trap, and I think that a lot of games simply avoid dealing with it, rather than risk getting it wrong. Or they fall into the "educating the player" trap rather than risk the alternative.

I think that The Witcher avoids it by having good writers, and the confidence that they can address these issues without falling into any traps. Also, I think, the fact that Geralt is an outsider helps - it makes it possible for them to let the player pick a path without it ever being because he's a bigot, or because he's fighting bigotry. He always has other reasons.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

And because the first gamer generation has grow up, and CDPR belong to this generation and they know what we'd like to find in a good game. They've done it and at the same time they are showing to big publisher that mature games with closer stories will be well sold.

Yeah, but at the same time, I dont think its such a "generational" thing.

I can totally appreciate power fantasies, I like mass effect for example and feeling like a galaxy saving hero and etc. Even the witcher games, while they deal with struggle and hard things, still at some level put you in the boots of the "greatest swordsman in the northern realms", and THE legendary witcher, something that would be exiting to be and would certainly make you feel powerful and even proud perhaps.

I think they are just different types of fun and satisfaction, thats all. Some games are enjoyed like that, and on the other hand for example, survival horror games were precisely the opposite of most other genres, putting you in the worst situations possible, always being relatively weak or mundane protagonists.

But I do agree with the relationship this has with publishers and risk taking in business, the safest way to play this is definitely to try and make the most people as happy and satisfied as possible, in the most common/universal way, and CDPR are not into that.

@warbaby2 they put that responsibility in the player because of what I said before basically, its all about power, control, ownership of the "right judgement", the game is aimed at letting you express your feelings/opinions, but also imposing them to make the world a "better" place.

And about the educating thing, I'd argue its more of the same, when something "bad" or harsh is represented in a mostly idealistically toned world, those events usually serve the purpose to show or explain why that is bad and how it could be good or more fair.

Its like there needs to be an argument for why you are putting "bad" or pessimistic things in the game, otherwise the game is too dark or even supporting the wrongdoings. "Is there sexual discrimination in DAI? yeah? ok but use it to show how thats totally wrong and let something good come out of that situation." Thats how I think the process goes more or less.

 

[xdevnull]

What I liked about the Witcher, and it's been born out in the games, is that it's fairly cynical, or at least not idealistic. Yes there's racism, sexism, brutality, all in the name of order or nobility or rights or the mob. But it's never something that is "dealt" with. It is never something that is "solved," even on a personal level. Sure, Geralt might free someone who is falsely accused, but then is led into a trap by that very same person. You might try and stop a pogrom, but you'll probably end up dead and the pogrom will still happen. Geralt is pulled in the direction of "good," but he knows almost nothing will come of it. The best you can do is find a little happiness.

What I think makes the Witcher "mature," a word that get's bandied about a lot, is not that these issues are dealt with, or raised, but the way in which they are injected with enough ambiguity to be a reflection of the realities of life. They are almost completely lacking in self-righteous posturing.