I'm playing this game right now, so underrated. My mind is completely blown from all the decisions put in front of me. The story is deep and ultimately in the end becomes a character study on the effects of war on the psyche. I just reached the tallest building in Dubai, let's see what happens next.
There's a difference between adult themes and handling things in a mature way. Just throwing in random drug use or rape to have adult content isn't handling things in a mature way. If they do include that sort of stuff in Cyberpunk 2077, I hope they give an indepth and well thought out depiction of it.
I know I'll get some hate for this, but the way the first Witcher game (since I haven't played the second I can't comment on it) handled sex is what I'm talking about when I say adult content but not mature content. Sex and relationships in The Witcher were shallow, cheap and boring. I don't want to see them doing the same thing with Cyberpunk 2077.
I know I'll get some hate for this, but the way the first Witcher game (since I haven't played the second I can't comment on it) handled sex is what I'm talking about when I say adult content but not mature content. Sex and relationships in The Witcher were shallow, cheap and boring. I don't want to see them doing the same thing with Cyberpunk 2077.
No hate from me, you have a good point. Mature to me is complexity, depth & nuance, inferences & implications rather than direct & straightforward. You can't talk to a child, and expect them to understand, with metaphors and the like as you would to an adult.
Adult is probably the wrong term to use here, I think we really mean Mature.
"Critics who treat adult as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence."
- C. S. Lewis.
Something a lot of folks aren't taking into account is THEIR cultural background.
For years the European market has been far more graphic when it comes to sexual aspects of games; and far less tolerent of violence, blood, and gore then the American one.
Like it or now where you grew up will influence how you precieve things.
For years the European market has been far more graphic when it comes to sexual aspects of games; and far less tolerent of violence, blood, and gore then the American one.
Like it or now where you grew up will influence how you precieve things.
I believe Tomb Raider 2013 have rape issue
But that doesn't make the game look bad.
It just one criminal factor in our life.
Like stealing things, killing people, robbing them, etc.
But that doesn't make the game look bad.
It just one criminal factor in our life.
Like stealing things, killing people, robbing them, etc.
caoimbh, nice of you quoting C.S. Lewis. He knew how to put it best.
And I knew about this and other games through the videos of Benzaie, and it was all pretty laughable in that context, but it would have been very offensive on its own.
I don't believe in censorship but I do believe in personal responsability (uh... XD). I think authors or production comittees should be held responsible (and I don't mean punishment, I mean the "favor of the public" should be affected by this) for the way they depict ideas and situations in their work, what transpires from this, if it's advocating for something, denouncing it, etc.
I didn't mean that "you can't do it, I meant you shouldn't"... no, I think it's more of a "why would you even" kind of thing. So consenting adult couples can... roleplay a little. I don't understand nor share this kind of "fantasy". And again in videogames it's a "no harm done, right?" situation but... it seems so wrong to me.
And I knew about this and other games through the videos of Benzaie, and it was all pretty laughable in that context, but it would have been very offensive on its own.
I don't believe in censorship but I do believe in personal responsability (uh... XD). I think authors or production comittees should be held responsible (and I don't mean punishment, I mean the "favor of the public" should be affected by this) for the way they depict ideas and situations in their work, what transpires from this, if it's advocating for something, denouncing it, etc.
No, it doesn't. That bit got removed from the game because politically correct people and feminists are upset over fictional characters and what might happen to them, I mean that in a way that's not even healthy to think about. And it was all written by a woman anyway.
Besides, the whole "issue" is hilarious. "Potential, off-screen, rape scenes are bad but now go and shoot those fifty guys ahead in their balls and watch them squirm". Truly, an amazing delusion.
It isn't just politically correct people and feminists who are offended over rape scenes, and the fact that they're fictional doesn't suddenly make it OK. And from a game developer's viewpoint, it probably depends on whether they want to attract a broad demographic or just "players who want to watch a rape scene".
There are times when courting controversy is valid, but I'm really struggling to see why this particular form of controversy would ever be appropriate for a game developer.
There are times when courting controversy is valid, but I'm really struggling to see why this particular form of controversy would ever be appropriate for a game developer.
I think it's about presentation. You can't just do like they did in movies like "The Hills Have Eyes" and plug in a rape scene just because and say "Hey, look what we did! Aren't we edgy?" It has to serve a purpose form a story telling standpoint.
The scene from Tomb Raider, as I understood it, was meant to show Lara Croft as vulnerable and desperate, to make the player feel protective of her as a person, and to give context to the reason she is suddenly okay with killing people. I don't think they were actually gonna show her getting raped, rather suggest that was what was about to happen, which is why she stepped over the edge and killed the guy to start with. In this case, the suggestion of rape serves a purpose for character development.
I personally have trouble dealing with depictions of rape. I guess I'm kind of chivalrous, but that kind of thing makes me descend into a blind rage. Seeing that scene in Tomb Raider would have made me want to kill everything in the game on general principle. I guess I'm that target demographic.
It can be done in a way that pushes the story, but you have to be very careful with it. There's a fine line between drama and exploitation.
Yes, I get it, we all get it, rape is bad. No one who's a decent human being does it. But why is it allowed to shoot guys in the balls? How is that less horrific? Or killing them in any other way for that matter. That's the thing that irks me the most. They all go on and on about imaginary women... I mean, look at that recent thing for God of War, the trophy achievement that was once "Bros before Hoes" for killing the Fury boss. So many called it misogynistic. Really? Why? It's a monster, a female monster, but nothing that should have gone this far that they had to change the trophy name to "Bros before Foes".
But now look at all the things you can do various male enemies in any game. Who's bitching about that? No one. Because in all honesty, it doesn't matter. And it shouldn't matter for any gender at all. A game is a game, and everyone can interpret things in it the way they want it, because it's all subjective.
Tomb Raider had a lousy story but the scene where she has to fight off a would be rapist was not out of place at all. It wasn't put there for titillation, but for drama and realism. I have a real problem with people telling what artists and writers can or can't put into their creations. This usually parades under the guise what is deemed appropriate, and it's harder to find a more tenuous or shifting definition than that. Should rape be in games? Well, it already is. It's in both Witcher games, and to pretty good effect, because the writers were sensitive to presentation and intent. As long as this is what guides controversial material, I'm fine with it. And let's not forget that games are the whipping post when it comes to this topic. A naked pair of tits is still controversial...
You've answered the God of War question yourself - they fixed it by changing the trophy name. The primary reason why it was offensive wasn't the violence, it was the fact that a trophy name used an extremely offensive word for women.
And no, I don't know why our society considers it OK to show graphic violence but not rape, but it does. And slimgrin's right about presentation being everything. The existence of rape in a video game isn't in itself offensive. Showing rape almost certainly would be. Having the player's character carry out the rape definitely is. And censorship isn't the main issue - the developer wants to sell the game, so courting a controversy that would actually stop people from buying the game isn't really a good idea.
Can you think of a western made game, made in the last 15 year or so, that had the main character commit rape? Neither can I. Witnessing rape (as in watching the scene happening without being able to do anything about it)? None, again. And yes, it's all about the presentation, we all know that. Just like how it was handled in the Witcher games. They don't use it as shock value, they just place it there as part of the story/background for some characters/events. No one is suggesting otherwise and it wouldn't have been shown graphically in Tomb Raider at all, it was just part of the setting.
Another thing about TR is people seem somewhat shocked by the death scenes. They're really not that gory in comparison to, say, Dead Space ones.
Also, how is that even offensive for women? You'd have to think all women are "hoes" to take it as an insult. It's fair to say that the "hoe" bit in this case was meant for the Fury boss fight and not everyone in general. There was nothing to be fixed at all, the developers/publishers just were forced into doing so because a group of "your rights end where my feelings begin" people have too much time on their hands and see "issues" everywhere. I don't even play the God of War games, but the whole thing has been utterly silly from the start.
Another thing about TR is people seem somewhat shocked by the death scenes. They're really not that gory in comparison to, say, Dead Space ones.
Also, how is that even offensive for women? You'd have to think all women are "hoes" to take it as an insult. It's fair to say that the "hoe" bit in this case was meant for the Fury boss fight and not everyone in general. There was nothing to be fixed at all, the developers/publishers just were forced into doing so because a group of "your rights end where my feelings begin" people have too much time on their hands and see "issues" everywhere. I don't even play the God of War games, but the whole thing has been utterly silly from the start.
its only because of the mainstream media that this kind of 'controversy' is an issue. they need stories, they would drag the developers/publishers name through mud, they would call them misogynistic, accuse them of corrupting youth and condoning violence against women, its nothing new.
80% of people would just lap it up, and unfortunately gaming companies cant rely on the remaining 20% to be their sole customers