Ah, so the game director (Sebastian Kalemba) and the narrative director (Philipp Weber) themself do not work on The Wicther 4?
I mean, they worked on The Witcher 3, so...
About Ciri who want to become a witcher, you simply choose to ignore that she explicitely said it's a damn curse. Something she never asked for. And the fact that she's tired of hiding, fleeing, by people try to use her, and most important hearing people saying what she can or can't do?
Well I just heard the majority of the witcher 3 crew left and went over to rebel wolves.
In life we don't always get to chose and get what we want. We just have to deal with whatever fate has in store for us and get on with our lives. that is a brutal reality we all have to face. And should be no difference for Ciri. That was also what attracted a lot of players in Geralt. Geralt didn't chose to become a witcher either. he was gifted as a child to the witchers and was forced to undergo the torturous high risk of death trials. For most part, he is just looking like a man who is asked to do whatever job is given him, no matter if he likes who is in charge or not. Oh and he's also robbed from having children and start a family for example since the treatment made him sterile. Not to mention the life of a pariah they must often live because witchers are known to take children when payment cannot be given. Witchers are not seen as good guys by the general populace but rather as a necessary evil. They therefor live the life of an outcast more. So yeah, one could also see all those as a possible burden or curse for someone wishing to live a happier life.
Why should Ciri be given more agency than him? If anything that is a core sentiment in these games is that whatever life throws at you you have to learn to live with it and improve your life despite of these conditions. Because trying to escape from it could leave to leave to far lesser either moral less reputable decisions or have in general worse outcomes. In many of the witcher's tales there are stories of people trying to change fate magically and ending up horribly. So hence they need a witcher to help solve the situation.
And if in the other hand, the game indeed is all about Ciri's choice, Then I think we as a player should also have the choice when we play as her to undergo the trials or not. Because if it's not only Ciri's scripted choices and also the player's choice is supposed to be there, then that choice should also be in there. unless of course player choice is really a false promise. After all we did leave w3 with Ciri not having passed the trials yet. So that is not by any definition set in stone.
This is why this argument completely fade away...
Because they decided that Ciri will be the next protagonist and so a witcher, a decade ago even before The Witcher 3 release... So "people" who left the studio since (at least, people you think they left^^), were still at CDPR and very likely took a part of this decision.
Oh I guess, you might argue "these people" left because they didn't agree with the idea of Ciri as a Witcher...
In fact they built up Ciri story arc in The Witcher 3 to more or less "introduce" her as Witcher in the next game. It's my interpretation, but the endings on The Witcher 3 depend mainly of how Geralt supports Ciri in her choices/wishes.
- Geralt support her to follow her own path > She become a witcher
- Geralt go against her wishes > she do not come back
This is why this argument completely fade away...
Because they decided that Ciri will be the next protagonist and so a witcher, a decade ago even before The Witcher 3 release... So "people" who left the studio since (at least, people you think they left^^), were still at CDPR and very likely took a part of this decision.
Oh I guess, you might argue "these people" left because they didn't agree with the idea of Ciri as a Witcher...
In fact they built up Ciri story arc in The Witcher 3 to more or less "introduce" her as Witcher in the next game. It's my interpretation, but the endings on The Witcher 3 depend mainly of how Geralt supports Ciri in her choices/wishes.
- Geralt support her to follow her own path > She become a witcher
- Geralt go against her wishes > she do not come back
You forget she can also become an empress. Which was the other good ending. And even in the monster hunting ending she is not a full witcher yet. And that is also a very open ending and very much up to interpretation. For me, it simply ment she stayed in very close contact with Geralt and Yennefer, who can help guide her into understanding her elder powers more. It's really not that hard to see it that way. I wanted to see a Ciri that is more in check and has matured to deal with her elder powers. Not as someone who would want to escape reality by just trying to find an easy fix. That doesn't seem like the kind of teaching either Geralt or Yennefer would give.
And I honestly don't know why these people left. I'm no insider in Cdpr company politics nor am I in any of those person's shoes. So I'm not going to pretend I know why. Nor do I need to know their reasons as they might as well be very private towards most of them. All I know is this is not the same CDPR that delivered us that masterpiece 10 years ago. And they set the bar extremely high.
You forget she can also become an empress. Which was the other good ending. And even in the monster hunting ending she is not a full witcher yet. And that is also a very open ending and very much up to interpretation. For me, it simply ment she stayed in very close contact with Geralt and Yennefer, who can help guide her into understanding her elder powers more. It's really not that hard to see it that way. I wanted to see a Ciri that is more in check and has matured to deal with her elder powers. Not as someone who would want to escape reality by just trying to find an easy fix. That doesn't seem like the kind of teaching either Geralt or Yennefer would give.
About the endings, I only pointed out the two most opposed
Geralt support her choices/wishes > Witcher path.
Geralt try to decide for her and/or do not support her > She never come back.
And then the "middle" one > Ciri empress.
But then, again, why the hell Ciri would even want to "understand" something she hate?
Something which spoiled almost her entire life. Something which lead her to stay away from the only persons she ever loved and obviously... the persons who ever really loved her.
It would go against everything which has been written in TW3. That's would be incredibly cheap writing only to please some people...
Oh for a "strange" reason, Ciri changed her mind... Elder blood is no longer a bad thing nor a curse! So she decided it was a nice idea understanding it (with of course, Geralt's help who know nothing about it^^).
In life we don't always get to chose and get what we want. We just have to deal with whatever fate has in store for us and get on with our lives. that is a brutal reality we all have to face. And should be no difference for Ciri.
It actually is different for Ciri.
The books end with her saying "screw you" to the Loge of Sorceresses and other interested parties, abandoning her "fate" as a princess/mother of a new heir and going her own way.
In Witcher 3, one of the main themes of the game is how Geralt should allow Ciri to chose her own path and forge her own destiny.
There is even the line of dialogue, where Geralt says "You choose who you are".
Ciri decides to hunt down Imelrith voluntarily, she decided to intervine in the fight with Caranthir by her own choice and, ultimately, saves the world from the White Frost by her own choice too - despite the fact that prophecy wasn't even specifically about her.
For now, we have no idea why exactly did Ciri decide to turn into witcher, but if it is truly because of defiance in the face of fate and destiny, then it is completely in line with her previous characterization, as well as established themes.
I remember people saying that it wasn't lore friendly that TW1 had Geralt alive and kicking as the protagonist because of how the books end...
As much as I know how important it is to keep the lore and possibly all the details, there are always some decisions to be made while producing a game. The thing is to have it believably explained why things happened and why do we get the state of the world we do get. It's strange and completely unfair to decide that something is so broken after a single and very vague trailer...
It actually is different for Ciri.
The books end with her saying "screw you" to the Loge of Sorceresses and other interested parties, abandoning her "fate" as a princess/mother of a new heir and going her own way.
In Witcher 3, one of the main themes of the game is how Geralt should allow Ciri to chose her own path and forge her own destiny.
There is even the line of dialogue, where Geralt says "You choose who you are".
Ciri decides to hunt down Imelrith voluntarily, she decided to intervine in the fight with Caranthir by her own choice and, ultimately, saves the world from the White Frost by her own choice too - despite the fact that prophecy wasn't even specifically about her.
For now, we have no idea why exactly did Ciri decide to turn into witcher, but if it is truly because of defiance in the face of fate and destiny, then it is completely in line with her previous characterization, as well as established themes.
The line Geralt says is also an optional choice you can pick. The other one seems to lead more to acceptance of her fate and learning to live with it. Not saying that the option to chose "you are free to choose" is the worse one of the two but it is there as well. So this is more the outcome of player choice.
Once again, it is very much up to interpretation what or what not Geralt should have done. Or which is the best moral option for him to pick. Just letting someone run wild is also not something any parental figure would do. And learning how to deal with problems in life and not running away from it is probably the more mature option. In order to change your fate you have to face it. Not run away. Running away would be chosing the witcher life. Where her potential would be dulled through the tials.
About the endings, I only pointed out the two most opposed
Geralt support her choices/wishes > Witcher path.
Geralt try to decide for her and/or do not support her > She never come back.
And then the "middle" one > Ciri empress.
But then, again, why the hell Ciri would even want to "understand" something she hate?
Something which spoiled almost her entire life. Something which lead her to stay away from the only persons she ever loved and obviously... the persons who ever really loved her.
It would go against everything which has been written in TW3. That's would be incredibly cheap writing only to please some people...
Oh for a "strange" reason, Ciri changed her mind... Elder blood is no longer a bad thing nor a curse! So she decided it was a nice idea understanding it (with of course, Geralt's help who know nothing about it^^).
Because in order to change something you hate, you must understand it first. Ciri chosing the witcher life to escape fate, feels to me like the drunkard chosing alcohol to forget he is married. Where Ciri, even as powerful as she is, still has many of flaws and uncertainties. This leads to be honest to a much better root of storytelling. Who wants to hear the story of the person who lives the perfect life he ever wanted and has no real struggles? And in W3, you could chose so many options, your way isn't the only way it gets done. Geralt has something over her that she hasn't had yet: experience in life. And if he didn't understand all of the matter himself, he has built up a ton of contacts during his time of people who probably could effectivly help. You seriously underestimate the type of "parental" role he and Yennefer could have here.
it would not be cheap writing, it would be enriching it. It would create a lot more depth to the character and give us a lot more options to explore with her. It would literally open up paths you haven't seen before in the previous games. So yeah, the ciri with the non neutered elder powers and not having passed the trials would actually be a lot more of an interesting choice.
The line Geralt says is also an optional choice you can pick. The other one seems to lead more to acceptance of her fate and learning to live with it. Not saying that the option to chose "you are free to choose" is the worse one of the two but it is there as well. So this is more the outcome of player choice.
There is also non-optional line by Ciri, where she says "It's my story, Geralt, not yours - you must let me finish telling it". It's a bit of a running theme with the game, you know.
Once again, it is very much up to interpretation what or what not Geralt should have done. Or which is the best moral option for him to pick. Just letting someone run wild is also not something any parental figure would do. And learning how to deal with problems in life and not running away from it is probably the more mature option. In order to change your fate you have to face it. Not run away. Running away would be chosing the witcher life. Where her potential would be dulled through the tials.
Facing her fate and not running away from it is what she did in Wild Hunt. It was actually a major point of contention between her and her friends/family after the battle for Kaer Morhen, because the consensus by that point between them was to keep running and hiding, while Ciri was the one who said that they must counter-attack. The cosmic purpose of Elder Blood was to stop the White Frost (in-game, at least) - that's exactly what she did.
And right now, these theories are more speculative than anything. People assume that she rejected her powers voluntarily or that she chose the witcher trials to suppress the Elder Blood, but that's just one theory. I'm of the opinion that something happened to her powers independently and that she decided to go through mutations as a way to compensate for that. Or maybe everyone is wrong and it is something else entirely.
There is also non-optional line by Ciri, where she says "It's my story, Geralt, not yours - you must let me finish telling it". It's a bit of a running theme with the game, you know.
Facing her fate and not running away from it is what she did in Wild Hunt. It was actually a major point of contention between her and her friends/family after the battle for Kaer Morhen, because the consensus by that point between them was to keep running and hiding, while Ciri was the one who said that they must counter-attack. The cosmic purpose of Elder Blood was to stop the White Frost (in-game, at least) - that's exactly what she did.
And right now, these theories are more speculative than anything. People assume that she rejected her powers voluntarily or that she chose the witcher trials to suppress the Elder Blood, but that's just one theory. I'm of the opinion that something happened to her powers independently and that she decided to go through mutations as a way to compensate for that. Or maybe everyone is wrong and it is something else entirely.
Well fine, but that is just her opinion then. One of the very many. And that is still very vague and extremely open. Besides: why should everything be around her choice only? It's not like Geralt was given that much agency in his games either. I would say it's a pretty narcissistic attitude of hers if she expects literally everyone and everything to bend over for her will. It certainly doesn't make her very much relatable to most of us. You know, us the rest of people who have to make a balance in between our own wishes and those of others.
Besides, the way I remember the ending, it was not the decision to go hide or run away, it was the decision to prepare more. Which was certainly more of a strategic plan than having her run off again and being reckless. there is a difference in between being brave and being stupid. And even if was it out of pure defiance and heading out despite of danger, it still contradicts then the decision later to be rid of it all together.
And anyway there is still only two possible outcomes:
- She loses her powers beforehand, and then it just doesn't make sense for her as a woman to pass the trials, as her elder blood is seen by many as the catalysator of which she as an exception can pass them. unless of course we go course for the "oh but look at this witcher school of which surprisingly nobody heard about beforehand", "turns out they have been secretly going further on experimenting on girls, and have reached some form of success"... which would mean they basically have been mass murdering girls with the trials and experimenting. Sounds so great to me, and so fitting for Ciri to be going along with that just to get her mutations. Would definitly not turn her quite villainous.
- she loses them with the trials and then basically we return her to a blanc state. And completely say goodbye to the elder blood bloodline. Unless some Mcguffin happens and everything literally magically get solved. Which would then pose the next question: "what was the point of the detour?".
Both outcomes seem very feeble to me, while the road was way open to go further with her the way she was.
Anyway I'm still beiieving that we as a player should have the choice with Ciri to go on with the trials or not. Have a game that both sides of the argument can enjoy.
Nothing personal but your interpretation seems to be based on your subjective take. There are literally hundreds of ways to handle things.
Let's start with the fact that Ciri was ALWAYS considered special and sheltered by so many people (including the mightiest witcher, mightiest sorceresses and mightiest emperor). It's VERY lore friendly to make her exception to whatever could be thrown her way. If any character in the universum could count on special handling she sure was the one. It doesn't matter if that's relatable or not for a commoner - that's a fact. Personally I enjoy playing as 'normal' and relatable character myself so I kind of understand your point, but Geralt was already saving the world - we were never really getting relatable characters in the Witchers games.
As for how she could have become a witcher:
- After the trilogy's story and Vesemir's death witchers decided to let some sorceresses closer to their secrets. That opens up unlimited possibilities at changing the witcher-making process and making impossible into possible.
- She could have met a mysterious monster that sucked out her elder blood, she was on a verge of dying so it was either putting her through trials or letting her die. She survived because the trial killed the last cells of her elder blood instead of her human part...
In both cases - these could happen no matter what ending we got for TW3. I am obviously making these ideas up in a matter of seconds, without giving it much thought. I am just saying that there is limitless way to making her become witcher have sense. Until we get the actual explanation in the game it's just saying either "I don't want to play as Ciri/female because I don't" or "I don't want to play a witcher Ciri because that's not how I would design the story for her".
Nothing personal but your interpretation seems to be based on your subjective take. There are literally hundreds of ways to handle things.
Let's start with the fact that Ciri was ALWAYS considered special and sheltered by so many people (including the mightiest witcher, mightiest sorceresses and mightiest emperor). It's VERY lore friendly to make her exception to whatever could be thrown her way. If any character in the universum could count on special handling she sure was the one. It doesn't matter if that's relatable or not for a commoner - that's a fact. Personally I enjoy playing as 'normal' and relatable character myself so I kind of understand your point, but Geralt was already saving the world - we were never really getting relatable characters in the Witchers games.
As for how she could have become a witcher:
- After the trilogy's story and Vesemir's death witchers decided to let some sorceresses closer to their secrets. That opens up unlimited possibilities at changing the witcher-making process and making impossible into possible.
- She could have met a mysterious monster that sucked out her elder blood, she was on a verge of dying so it was either putting her through trials or letting her die. She survived because the trial killed the last cells of her elder blood instead of her human part...
In both cases - these could happen no matter what ending we got for TW3. I am obviously making these ideas up in a matter of seconds, without giving it much thought. I am just saying that there is limitless way to making her become witcher have sense. Until we get the actual explanation in the game it's just saying either "I don't want to play as Ciri/female because I don't" or "I don't want to play a witcher Ciri because that's not how I would design the story for her".
Well we can agree on one thing here: Ciri has indeed always been a sheltered child and always had the best people looking after. However the word "gratitude" isn't in her vocabulary very much as she still only wants her will and her will to happen only. In Witcher 3 I have always found her actions quite childish and rash. Geralt has always been more relatable to me. yes he has at some point "saved the world" but most of his stories are pretty much down to earth for this world.
the sorceresses have already always been involved in witcher making. In fact, one of the recounts done where they did test on girls and all the girls dieing is done by a sorceress in the books. It was even with their council that the trials on girls kept on failing. And if you follow lore re opening that branch will always come at a high sacrifice. Because in order to experiment, children have to be put through the tests. In this case then it would have to be strictly girls. There is a reason why Geralt and co were so set to not do the trials on anyone again. Because even with the boy's much higher success rate, it was still an unnecessary cruelty. You take that type of gravitas out of the situation, it means then that becoming a witcher is no trifle at all anymore. Lorewise, it would mean like saying: ow yeah, Superman didn't come from Krypton.
Your second option would basically mean eradicating the entire Elder bloodline influence on her. So basically pull a 180% on the book lore.
Now I know some people are deadset on having their witcher Ciri, no matter how much uprooting and deforming the lore it would take. Me, I just want my option to have Ciri not passing the trials and be more lore friendly.
the sorceresses have already always been involved in witcher making. In fact, one of the recounts done where they did test on girls and all the girls dieing is done by a sorceress in the books. It was even with their council that the trials on girls kept on failing.
As far as I remember, there are no mentions of girls not passing the trials in the books. Triss even contemplates why witchers didn't mutate Ciri yet - and reaches the conclusion that they simply don't know how, not that it's impossible. She even thanks them for not trying it on her - and it wasn't met with "Emm, we wouldn't even bother, because girls can't be mutated anyway" - they just stand there silently and object to other things.
Neon Knight discussed it in his video, but essentially, the lore about all the girls dying during the trials is a CDPR lore.
And even there, only first couple trials were mentioned, where all girls have died and 90% of boys have died, so Alzur and co have simply decided to move on with what was working, instead of perfecting the formula.
I almost finished the main game (again^^), I honestly those who wonder why Ciri would want to get rid of her elder blood and so, her great powers, really need to play (or likely replay) the game, because Ciri say it herself
Well we can agree on one thing here: Ciri has indeed always been a sheltered child and always had the best people looking after. However the word "gratitude" isn't in her vocabulary very much as she still only wants her will and her will to happen only. In Witcher 3 I have always found her actions quite childish and rash. Geralt has always been more relatable to me. yes he has at some point "saved the world" but most of his stories are pretty much down to earth for this world.
the sorceresses have already always been involved in witcher making. In fact, one of the recounts done where they did test on girls and all the girls dieing is done by a sorceress in the books. It was even with their council that the trials on girls kept on failing. And if you follow lore re opening that branch will always come at a high sacrifice. Because in order to experiment, children have to be put through the tests. In this case then it would have to be strictly girls. There is a reason why Geralt and co were so set to not do the trials on anyone again. Because even with the boy's much higher success rate, it was still an unnecessary cruelty. You take that type of gravitas out of the situation, it means then that becoming a witcher is no trifle at all anymore. Lorewise, it would mean like saying: ow yeah, Superman didn't come from Krypton.
Your second option would basically mean eradicating the entire Elder bloodline influence on her. So basically pull a 180% on the book lore.
Now I know some people are deadset on having their witcher Ciri, no matter how much uprooting and deforming the lore it would take. Me, I just want my option to have Ciri not passing the trials and be more lore friendly.
And again - it's based on what YOU think would be best and what suists YOUR vision of events.
Ciri IS indeed shown as childish and rush - precisely words I would use myself to describe her from TW3. Totally agreed. I would also understand why not everyone would like her as a character. We are however not discussing if she is likeable or not (in my opinion - contrary to Geralt - she is a much better character for players to shape as she is full of contradictions - good heart, willing to save innocent ones, while acting on instincts and feelings and not being a stranger to direct mischieves and breaking the law)
The fact stays that Ciri is the one and only character that can easily be thrown into any circumstances and make it fit the lore - as she is one of a kind. Whatever the developers decide to create for the story, it's reasonable to say 'because of her elder blood' and it ends the discussion... It's not like the lore says 'Thousands of other Elder Blood ancestors were subjected to this and that and it was determined not to work'. The lores says the opposite thing: Ciri could do and experience things that were considered impossible otherwise.
As for the game's lore: It makes perfect sense for witchers to change their rules a bit AFTER Vesemir dies and Geralt becoming pretty much the witcher that everyone looks up to for directions, whether he likes it or not. It then makes perfect sense for Geralt allowing Yennefer and Triss to study the mutations and trials... And it makes sense for Yennefer to find out that 'elder blood' can be used as a catalyst that will make the trials not life threatening for Ciri. If not, it makes sense for Yennefer to learn and understand how the mutations go and learn how to make Ciri into a witcher without trials, by using magic... And if not... It makes sense for Ciri to become a witcher without going through trials at all... simply if the sorceresses learnt that potions don;t kill ones with elder blood - simple.
My second option would however fit the game's lore, where Ciri clearly doesn;t want to have the Elder bloodline... So still lore friendly by all means...
And - no, Ciri wasn't my first hope for the protagonist of TW4. My first choice would be to create our own character - not even necessarily a witcher. But I do understand the choice of Ciri and I do understand that until we learn how things are set it's meaningless to criticise based on assumptions. There are hundreds of ways to explain Ciri as a wicther in a great way and hundreds of ways to mess this up. As long as the creators do this right I have no reason to complain about it.
Well, the release is still far away, so it’s too early to need convincing. So far we know almost nothing about the game.
However, Ciri was much more powerful than Geralt in TW3 and she is playing a huge part in the books too. So going with her as main protagonist is definitely not some random decision.
But no matter how good or bad something may sound in theory, in the end it will boil down to good writing, directing and game design to make it work. Anything can be entertaining and immersive if you are able to back it up storywise. At the same time, even the best ideas can easily fail if the writing falls flat.
Having played TW1-3, CP2077 and Thronebreaker I have no reason to doubt CDPR’s ability to tell a great story with intriguing main characters. But yeah, that’s just my view and only the final game will tell.
Exactly.
In a world where many big game-companies managed to ruin their brands and game with forced messages, bad gameplay and ugly or boring characters, so far cdpr stands out as loyal to their games, worlds and stories.
And frankly Ciri as player-character could work very well, in fact i had hoped that after w3. In fact the elder blood was always of such importance in the books that i cant imagine a continuation of the saga without it playing a role.
Of course i can understand the many concern people have with ciri as a mutant, because honestly i share them.
But because cdpr has so far not disapoint me in the story department i want to believe that they know this too and has something planed for this. I think they deserve that much trust until they release more infos or the game itself.
As far as I remember, there are no mentions of girls not passing the trials in the books. Triss even contemplates why witchers didn't mutate Ciri yet - and reaches the conclusion that they simply don't know how, not that it's impossible. She even thanks them for not trying it on her - and it wasn't met with "Emm, we wouldn't even bother, because girls can't be mutated anyway" - they just stand there silently and object to other things.
Neon Knight discussed it in his video, but essentially, the lore about all the girls dying during the trials is a CDPR lore.
And even there, only first couple trials were mentioned, where all girls have died and 90% of boys have died, so Alzur and co have simply decided to move on with what was working, instead of perfecting the formula.
yes there are in the books. The blood of elves. The account of the sorceress states that the male survives. If there were only males present in that group, they wouldn't need to specify "the male". It is in the books. And then Alzur would have been right to do so. Why continue working on the failing female part when you got a more working male part you can further perfect? It makes perfect sense and it avoids unneccesary cruelty. There is simply no point or need in further investigating the trials for girls. If all the girls died in the testing, never saying "it's impossible" doesn't also exclude "impossible". For saying "it's possible" though, there has to be at least one example of success or breakthrough before Ciri. And don't dare bring up the cat school female witchers, because we all know that is coming from a tabletop fanfic rpg.
And again - it's based on what YOU think would be best and what suists YOUR vision of events.
Ciri IS indeed shown as childish and rush - precisely words I would use myself to describe her from TW3. Totally agreed. I would also understand why not everyone would like her as a character. We are however not discussing if she is likeable or not (in my opinion - contrary to Geralt - she is a much better character for players to shape as she is full of contradictions - good heart, willing to save innocent ones, while acting on instincts and feelings and not being a stranger to direct mischieves and breaking the law)
The fact stays that Ciri is the one and only character that can easily be thrown into any circumstances and make it fit the lore - as she is one of a kind. Whatever the developers decide to create for the story, it's reasonable to say 'because of her elder blood' and it ends the discussion... It's not like the lore says 'Thousands of other Elder Blood ancestors were subjected to this and that and it was determined not to work'. The lores says the opposite thing: Ciri could do and experience things that were considered impossible otherwise.
As for the game's lore: It makes perfect sense for witchers to change their rules a bit AFTER Vesemir dies and Geralt becoming pretty much the witcher that everyone looks up to for directions, whether he likes it or not. It then makes perfect sense for Geralt allowing Yennefer and Triss to study the mutations and trials... And it makes sense for Yennefer to find out that 'elder blood' can be used as a catalyst that will make the trials not life threatening for Ciri. If not, it makes sense for Yennefer to learn and understand how the mutations go and learn how to make Ciri into a witcher without trials, by using magic... And if not... It makes sense for Ciri to become a witcher without going through trials at all... simply if the sorceresses learnt that potions don;t kill ones with elder blood - simple.
My second option would however fit the game's lore, where Ciri clearly doesn;t want to have the Elder bloodline... So still lore friendly by all means...
And - no, Ciri wasn't my first hope for the protagonist of TW4. My first choice would be to create our own character - not even necessarily a witcher. But I do understand the choice of Ciri and I do understand that until we learn how things are set it's meaningless to criticise based on assumptions. There are hundreds of ways to explain Ciri as a wicther in a great way and hundreds of ways to mess this up. As long as the creators do this right I have no reason to complain about it.
I would say she is the opposite of Geralt when it comes to being shapeable. She will come with a very high pre prescribed set of world views and political views. The devs said she would become more politically active and opinopnated than Geralt. This is why Geralt was more shapeable in your playthrough. He has basically a neutral stance at the beginning so it's way easier to go either evil or good with him. A character like Ciri with a pre dispositoned political world view is in that term more narrowminded.
well definity it doesn't make sense, definitly not with Geralt. He is one of the biggest proponents of not doing the trials on anyone anymore. there is severe childhood trauma connected with the trials for him. He is very much against them. If it were up to him, he wouldn't mind if he was the last witcher being alive and him being the last of his kind. He was even repulsed about the fact that Vesemir kept the table for the trials. He knows the risks by far outweigh the chances of a possible positive outcome. Because even with a positive outcome a witcher's life is not roses and sunshine. it means living like a pariah because almost everyone hates or fears you and in the end get swallowed up by the same monsters you are designed to hunt. No sensible man would put someone they love through torture with high risk of death, only to have the outcome to be worse then they have been before.
You have to have the mutations in order for the potions to work. Well ok maybe not something as light it might as well count as a coughing syrop. But for all the body altering ones- definitly mutations are needed.
yes there are hundreds of way to explain why things change, there also hundreds of way to make the "witcher' setting not the witcher setting anymore. You might as well say that the way first female witchers were created when the sorceressses flew around on broomsticks while chewing magic bubblegum, they spit it out and from the splashes female witchers were born or something. There is only so much you can do to break the settings so they aren't the settings anymore. Superman doesn't come from krypton.
So yeah, my proposition of not having ciri pass the trials and just relying on her magic and sword skills without potions or mutations, still seems the best one to me.
Exactly.
In a world where many big game-companies managed to ruin their brands and game with forced messages, bad gameplay and ugly or boring characters, so far cdpr stands out as loyal to their games, worlds and stories.
And frankly Ciri as player-character could work very well, in fact i had hoped that after w3. In fact the elder blood was always of such importance in the books that i cant imagine a continuation of the saga without it playing a role.
Of course i can understand the many concern people have with ciri as a mutant, because honestly i share them.
But because cdpr has so far not disapoint me in the story department i want to believe that they know this too and has something planed for this. I think they deserve that much trust until they release more infos or the game itself.
But this current crew hasn't really showed that thus far. For 95% of this current crew it will be the first witcher game they ever worked on. And the companies' policies have changed in the meantime. There is an entire diversity and inclusion section to review on the website. Plus they have already said Ciri will be more politically active in director's interviews. So i'm guessing that a lot of that type of messaging will be put into this game.
Plus i see several articles pop up where it's claimed CDPR come out saying that in this game they would explore "the struggle of women in medieval society". Appearantly not knowing that if you were bottom class in medieval society, cruelty and misfortune was spread equally no matter what gender you were.
And regarding the elder blood, I share the same opinion with you. I just dont fit it for Ciri to pass the trials of the grasses. Her elder blood magic and basic sword skills should have been enough. she doesn't need the mutations
there is severe childhood trauma connected with the trials for him. He is very much against them. If it were up to him, he wouldn't mind if he was the last witcher being alive and him being the last of his kind. He was even repulsed about the fact that Vesemir kept the table for the trials.
Wouldn't you confuse Geralt and Lambert by any chance?
Because what you describe here, it's Lambert, not Geralt behavior. Geralt is more or less "neutral" as always
yes there are in the books. The blood of elves. The account of the sorceress states that the male survives. If there were only males present in that group, they wouldn't need to specify "the male". It is in the books.
Let's check the books then.
Blood of Elves, Chapter 2, Triss POV:
The girl overcame her hesitation, approached and stretched out her hand. Triss stood with only a little assistance. Because she was not concerned with having help. She wanted a closer look at the girl. And to touch her. The green eyes of the little witcher-girl betrayed no signs of mutation, and the touch of her little hand did not produce the slight, pleasant tingling sensation so characteristic of witchers. Although she ran the Killer path with a sword slung across her back, the ashen-haired girl had not been subjected to the Trial of Grasses or to Changes. Of that, Triss was certain.
Triss clenched her fist and punched the pillow. No, she thought, no. Don’t be silly. Don’t think about it. Think about . . . About Ciri. Is she . . . Yes. She was the real reason behind her visit to Kaer Morhen. The ash blonde girl who, here in Kaer Morhen,they want to turn into a witcher. A real witcher. A mutant. A killing machine, like themselves. It’s clear, she suddenly thought, feeling a passionate arousal of an entirely different nature. It’s obvious. They want to mutate the child, subject her to the Trial of Grasses and Changes, but they don’t know how to do it. Vesemir was the only witcher left from the previous generation, and he was only a fencing instructor. The Laboratorium, hidden in the vaults of Kaer Morhen, with its dusty demi-johns of elixirs, the alembics, ovens and retorts . . . None of the witchers knew how to use them.
Later-later, when she confronts the gang on Ciri's diet and upbrining:
‘Fewer infusions of your mystery-shrouded herbs,’ she continued, trying not to giggle, ‘and more milk. You have goats here. Milking is no great art. You’ll see, Lambert, you’ll learn how to do it in no time.’
‘Triss,’ started Geralt, ‘listen—’
‘No, you listen. You haven’t subjected Ciri to violent mutations, haven’t touched her hormones, haven’t tried any elixirs or Grasses on her. And that’s to be praised. That was sensible, responsible and humane. You haven’t harmed her with any of your poisons – all the more so you must not cripple her now.’
At no point she stops and says "Oh, silly me, how could I forget that women can't be mutated into witchers?" and at no point other witchers say "Oh, Triss, silly you, women can't be mutated into witchers!" - when she first meets Ciri, she checks her for mutations, later she thinks that witchers would want to mutate her, but that they don't know how, for which she still thanks them later.
The only account of "only males surviving" that I could find was in the end of Chapter 2:
The snow fell and fell. It brightened up only with the arrival of Midinvaerne, the Day of the Winter Equinox. On the third day all the children died save one, a male barely ten.
Which, again, doesn't say that women cannot, under any circumstances undergo trials - it doesn't even mention whether or not there were girls there at all, because the boy was the sole survivor out of the entire group. And if the girls were there, what percentage of the group were they? 10 out of 20? 1 out of 10?
Why? The last witcher was created conventionally decades ago, whatever formula that will appear later will most likely be either completely new or have some major changes to the original one. Besides, someone has to be the first successful subject - Ciri being the first is not improbable, considering all the insane things she's done before.
Wouldn't you confuse Geralt and Lambert by any chance?
Because what you describe here, it's Lambert, not Geralt behavior. Geralt is more or less "neutral" as always
i mean of course ciri is going to experience some sexism... everything else would be strange. I just hope they dont make that the focus. Everyone suffers and its just a fact that even in the witcher world women are only rarely fighters.
Still think that could work with Ciri.
But just in case: [...] PLEASE NO HOUSE OF DRAGON SEASON2!!!
