CP77 Gameplay Lenght for Each Class and Delivery Model?

[garothmaster]

CP77 Gameplay Lenght for Each Class and Delivery Model?

Hello Punks,


Those of you who had a chance to play a CP PnP session know that it usually lasts from 30 minutes (when a GM or Team is a bunch of noobs and killed instantly) up to 6 hours gameplay. Although I heard from punks who played 3 days in a row continously. When you do it couple of times per month it adds to the sum.
We mostly all agree that the classes are necessary for the CP77 project and gameplay and storyline should be customised for each class.
We all know the DLC model but a few of us really like it. Another idea is to provide the sandbox inpunt online by CDPR for you to experience news changes in media, new city events, additional packs of random street stories, random encounters, shoping promotions ect. everything to add real life to the city.

I would like to ask ech one of you how long should the Cyberpunk 77 gameplay last for each paricular class and in what manner should CDPR supply it?

1. A big funkin oldschool moloch of over 1000 hours RPG gameplay and different storylines for each class including online sanbox input CDPR (aditionally paid) in terms of news, city happenings, street stories ect. but less graphical glittering right from the box

2. A big funkin oldschool moloch of over 500 hours RPG gameplay and different storylines for each class but less graphical glittering right from the box

3. 300-500 hours good graphic RPG gameplay but completly different storylines each time replayed with different class
and online sanbox input from CDPR (aditionally paid) in terms of news, city happenings, street stories ect.

4. 200-300 hours good graphic RPG gameplay but completly different storylines each time replayed with different class

5. 200-300 hours good graphic RPG gameplay with similar storylines for one or two class and then DLCs for additional classes storylines

6. 100-500 hours good graphic RPG gameplay but completly different storylines each time replayed with different class and online sanbox input from CDPR (paid) in terms of news, city happenings, street stories ect.

7. 100-200 hours good graphic RPG gameplay but completly different storylines each time replayed with different class

8. 100-200 hours good graphic RPG gameplay with similar storylines for one or two class and then DLCs for additional classes storylines

9. 25-100 hours ultragraphic experience gameplay but completly different storylines each time replayed with different class and online sanbox input from CDPR (paid) in terms of news, city happenings, street stories ect. or DLCs

10. 25-50 hours ultragraphic experience gameplay but completly different storylines each time replayed with different class

 

[zheldor651]

Strongly depends on what you're calling "X hours gameplay". The player could, say, beat the storyline in Y hours, but to complete all the quests in the world it'd take Z hours. What is X? Is it Y? Is it Z? (Y+Z)/2? sqrt(Y*Z)?

"Different storylines" is a vague term too. Alpha Protocol didn't change much depending on your actions (you still had to complete the same missions, have the same amount of dialogues, run through the same maps), but it felt like the changes were radical.

In any case, please don't mention DLCs on this forum. Enhanced Edition was just a content patch (an outdated name for free DLCs), and we all loved it just like that.

 

[d1am0ndback]

I want 1000 hours of gameplay and storylines. Have the world record for dialogue in a game.

 

[garothmaster]

Strongly depends on what you're calling "X hours gameplay". The player could, say, beat the storyline in Y hours, but to complete all the quests in the world it'd take Z hours. What is X? Is it Y? Is it Z? (Y+Z)/2? sqrt(Y*Z)?

"Different storylines" is a vague term too. Alpha Protocol didn't change much depending on your actions (you still had to complete the same missions, have the same amount of dialogues, run through the same maps), but it felt like the changes were radical.

In any case, please don't mention DLCs on this forum. Enhanced Edition was just a content patch (an outdated name for free DLCs), and we all loved it just like that.

"X Hours Gameplay" - That's why the hours span like 100-200 is there. You can complete the main storyline in 100h + all additioonal quests in next 100h.
"Different storylines" - By different storyline I mean completely new quests, dialogues, locations ect.

 

[Aditya]

1000 hours?
"small aim is a crime" is one of the most famous inspirational lines by our (only) beloved former president Dr. Kalam here.
I see you have applied that quite literally.

 

[garothmaster]

1000 hours?
"small aim is a crime" is one of the most famous inspirational lines by our (only) beloved former president Dr. Kalam here.
I see you have applied that quite literally.

I should become your new president. Drop me a notice when you want serious change in the office.

Cyberpunk for everyone

 

[Sydanyo]

First of all, the length of the content is wholly dependent on the player; two different players will advance at completely different paces even if they do the exact same things in a game. Some people are slow, for various reasons. Some people advance fast, via various methods and styles of playing.

Let's take Skyrim, for example. You can finish the game in one sitting if you only run through the main quest. It's done in mere hours. However, if you throw yourself into the game, do a lot of the side quests, do a lot of exploring, raise your character to high levels and so on, you'll get a couple hundred hours out of one character easily. Now then, are we talking about finishing the main quest from A to B as fast as you can - as so many people have a tendency of doing, then afterwards complaining how the game was "short" - or are we talking about a game like Skyrim, where the vast majority of the content has absolutely nothing to do with the actual main plot?

If Cyberpunk 2077 will be a fully open sandbox with a nonlinear quest system, then it can at the same time be both very short, as well as offer hundreds of hours of gameplay. It all boils down to the person playing. If they find the game short, then perhaps the blame can be laid on themselves. However, 100-200 hours, replay value not withstanding, would be a sensible aim. 1000 hours or more for a single playthrough is utterly ridiculous for a single player game.

Graphics should, and most likely will not, have anything to do with the aforementioned; the graphics department most likely isn't involved with quest development.

 

[gregski]

We mostly all agree that the classes are necessary for the CP77 project and gameplay and storyline should be customised for each class.

Umm, actually, no we don't. There's a discussion going on about it and it's far from us "all agreeing" to one particular view.

I don't think any game should be designed with a number of hours in mind. Personally I don't care about it.

I'd rather play a few hours of To the Moon and actually FEEL something meaningful at the end, than wonder around a vast world of Skyrim for 100 hours without meaning or purpose.

 

[wisdom000]

I really don't know what to make of this thread...

On one hand, I want the longest game possible. The cyberpunk campaigns I have run or played in tend to last for months, more often than not years... In fact, the campaign with my nomad character just entered its fourth year... and that's playing on average once a week for between 4-6 hours at a time, sometimes more...

On the other, a whole lot of my enjoyment of a game like this is dependent on how customizable my characters is, how many vehicles I can store and customize, and how much I fun I can have just wandering around.

In Fallout NV I spent weeks collecting at least one of every single item of clothing and every weapon in the game you could get, all in perfect 100% condition. I know the wasteland like the back of my hand.

GTA3, GTA:VC, GTA:LCS, GTA:VCS, GTA4 and its DLC, RDR, Sleeping Dogs, and SR3 I have invested ridiculous amounts of time in.... but they are but a drop in the bucket compared to the truly monumental amount of hours I have spent on San Andreas and Saints Row 2... I can kill an entire day organizing my garages in San Andreas, making sure each vehicle is exactly where I want it, in the exact color and options...

Saints Row 2's story line was about half the length of GTA4 or Fallout NV.... but the amount of time I played it, even after finishing the story line completely.... absolutely eclipses those games... I have spent hours upon hours shopping. My garage is full, each car uniquely customized... I spent days working with a co-op partner to put the vehicles in specific order, unlocking them only when my garage was full of the vehicles I wanted to appear before them...

I have spent days upon days exploring every inch of these games, memorizing the streets... I have spent countless hours practicing my driving, so I can make perfect turns, and get the most out of my car. I have scouted the best places for gun exciting gun battles, the best spots for cover, I have several custom outfits, each representing a different mood, or style for my character.

And with Saints Row 2, I have done all of this several times, for several different characters....

Also with Saints Row 2, I was a part of the Saints Row Motors team.... a group on the old SR forums dedicated to getting every rare, formerly though to be impossible to obtain, mission specific vehicle in the game... and trading them amongst each other, or with anyone else who wants one. And while I loved the map and terrain variety of San Andreas, and loved their safehouses, especially the old airport out in the desert.... there is no game on the planet that I have had as much relentless fun doing non storyline shit as I did with Saints Row 2. And there are a great many who feel the same way, and spent the same amount of time with it.

I am praying, fervently wishing against the odds.... the Cyberpunk 2077 will not just match, but surpass the amount of enjoyment I was able to get from SR2.

I am also praying that even beyond that, there is an engaging storyline.

As for the roles, and their relation to the storyline, I have already put forth my ideas regarding that... I think the game would best be served by letting the character choose one primary role, which must always remain a level higher than all other roles, but that the character can earn as many roles as he wishes, with the special abilities given by roles merely adding to other skills. In other words, the way I do it with Interlock Unlimited.

Anyway, those are my desires. I am sure plenty will disagree with my priorities. But I remain adamant in that the fun I have outside the story of a game is every bit as important as the fun I have inside the story..... That is the mark of true re-playability.

 

[Aditya]

I should become your new president. Drop me a notice when you want a serious change in the office.

Cyberpunk for everyone

Well yes change in my country is very much required, totsl mess here. Send in the Psychosquad!

 

[braindancer12]

I really don't know what to make of this thread...

On one hand, I want the longest game possible. The cyberpunk campaigns I have run or played in tend to last for months, more often than not years... In fact, the campaign with my nomad character just entered its fourth year... and that's playing on average once a week for between 4-6 hours at a time, sometimes more...

On the other, a whole lot of my enjoyment of a game like this is dependent on how customizable my characters is, how many vehicles I can store and customize, and how much I fun I can have just wandering around.

In Fallout NV I spent weeks collecting at least one of every single item of clothing and every weapon in the game you could get, all in perfect 100% condition. I know the wasteland like the back of my hand.

GTA3, GTA:VC, GTA:LCS, GTA:VCS, GTA4 and its DLC, RDR, Sleeping Dogs, and SR3 I have invested ridiculous amounts of time in.... but they are but a drop in the bucket compared to the truly monumental amount of hours I have spent on San Andreas and Saints Row 2... I can kill an entire day organizing my garages in San Andreas, making sure each vehicle is exactly where I want it, in the exact color and options...

Saints Row 2's story line was about half the length of GTA4 or Fallout NV.... but the amount of time I played it, even after finishing the story line completely.... absolutely eclipses those games... I have spent hours upon hours shopping. My garage is full, each car uniquely customized... I spent days working with a co-op partner to put the vehicles in specific order, unlocking them only when my garage was full of the vehicles I wanted to appear before them...

I have spent days upon days exploring every inch of these games, memorizing the streets... I have spent countless hours practicing my driving, so I can make perfect turns, and get the most out of my car. I have scouted the best places for gun exciting gun battles, the best spots for cover, I have several custom outfits, each representing a different mood, or style for my character.

And with Saints Row 2, I have done all of this several times, for several different characters....

Also with Saints Row 2, I was a part of the Saints Row Motors team.... a group on the old SR forums dedicated to getting every rare, formerly though to be impossible to obtain, mission specific vehicle in the game... and trading them amongst each other, or with anyone else who wants one. And while I loved the map and terrain variety of San Andreas, and loved their safehouses, especially the old airport out in the desert.... there is no game on the planet that I have had as much relentless fun doing non storyline shit as I did with Saints Row 2. And there are a great many who feel the same way, and spent the same amount of time with it.

I am praying, fervently wishing against the odds.... the Cyberpunk 2077 will not just match, but surpass the amount of enjoyment I was able to get from SR2.

I am also praying that even beyond that, there is an engaging storyline.

As for the roles, and their relation to the storyline, I have already put forth my ideas regarding that... I think the game would best be served by letting the character choose one primary role, which must always remain a level higher than all other roles, but that the character can earn as many roles as he wishes, with the special abilities given by roles merely adding to other skills. In other words, the way I do it with Interlock Unlimited.

Anyway, those are my desires. I am sure plenty will disagree with my priorities. But I remain adamant in that the fun I have outside the story of a game is every bit as important as the fun I have inside the story..... That is the mark of true re-playability.

wow good comment nothing to add

 

[Sydanyo]

Games like the Fallout series, TES series and other such games which have evolved away from your basic adventure model, and incorporated a lot of "Sim" in the form of housing, followers, clothing, weaponry, cars, and so on, do often lack the sort of pressing need to be advancing a story. What I mean is this:

In Oblivion, for example, you escort the King who then dies, and you're left with the very important task of finding his son and bringing the amulet to him. Well. Nobody said you have to do it right now. How about we have a small vacation of about, oh I don't know, a couple years, doing all kinds of random things such as picking flowers and hunting rabbits, and then we can continue on the actual story?

To me, while a system such as that allows you to go adventuring elsewhere, it also disconnects you from the story completely, and because of that it doesn't feel like a story-driven game. Now, I've played my fair share of Sim City, Transport Tycoon, even Sims, or for example Spore, as well as other such fun games which have nothing to do with a story, and I can appreciate having some of that incorporated into the game, but I still feel like having a story that feels alive instead of "on pause" does good to a game.

To me, for some reason, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. has this. It allows you to explore areas somewhat freely, it allows you to "farm" enemies and get better gear and there are factions in the game too, so there's a very small sim-style element to it, and even though you spend hours sniping Russian soldiers from the bushes, it doesn't feel like the actual main story in the background has paused at all. Perhaps because the protagonist isn't the center of what's happening until at the very end.

For Cyberpunk 2077, I would be very disappointed if there wasn't a very rich story in it, almost like reading a book or watching a movie. I would also (have been) disappointed if it was going to be an on-rails type of a story, which I gather it's not going to be. However, having the freedom a sandbox brings, without disconnecting the player from the main plot like the TES-games and Fallout sort of do, will be a difficult thing to accomplish, I think.

 

[gregski]

Games like the Fallout series, TES series and other such games which have evolved away from your basic adventure model, and incorporated a lot of "Sim" in the form of housing, followers, clothing, weaponry, cars, and so on, do often lack the sort of pressing need to be advancing a story. What I mean is this:

In Oblivion, for example, you escort the King who then dies, and you're left with the very important task of finding his son and bringing the amulet to him. Well. Nobody said you have to do it right now. How about we have a small vacation of about, oh I don't know, a couple years, doing all kinds of random things such as picking flowers and hunting rabbits, and then we can continue on the actual story?

To me, while a system such as that allows you to go adventuring elsewhere, it also disconnects you from the story completely, and because of that it doesn't feel like a story-driven game. Now, I've played my fair share of Sim City, Transport Tycoon, even Sims, or for example Spore, as well as other such fun games which have nothing to do with a story, and I can appreciate having some of that incorporated into the game, but I still feel like having a story that feels alive instead of "on pause" does good to a game.

To me, for some reason, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. has this. It allows you to explore areas somewhat freely, it allows you to "farm" enemies and get better gear and there are factions in the game too, so there's a very small sim-style element to it, and even though you spend hours sniping Russian soldiers from the bushes, it doesn't feel like the actual main story in the background has paused at all. Perhaps because the protagonist isn't the center of what's happening until at the very end.

For Cyberpunk 2077, I would be very disappointed if there wasn't a very rich story in it, almost like reading a book or watching a movie. I would also (have been) disappointed if it was going to be an on-rails type of a story, which I gather it's not going to be. However, having the freedom a sandbox brings, without disconnecting the player from the main plot like the TES-games and Fallout sort of do, will be a difficult thing to accomplish, I think.

Exactly. I was saying this in some other place - in open-world/sandbox games you complete a quest from the main storyline and then ZAP - all of a sudden time stops, world events come to halt and the whole planet is just waiting for you to pick which mission you fancy next. Yeah, and the world doesn't give a damn if you decide to spend next couple of in-game months on aimlessly wandering around the map, picking blueberries or hunting rabbits. The "oh-so-important-world-saving-mission" is going to patiently wait there, until you trigger it in all your player's generosity, no matter when or in what order.

I wish game designers invented something to change this mechanic, because as fun as it have been for some time, at the very core it's just flawed.

 

[dragonbird]

Quite apart from the practical considerations (cost, time to make), the thought of 1000 hours of content leaves me cold. I agree with the others - adding massive amounts of content (more than any other game, ever?) isn't the way to engage the player, it just removes any sense of purpose.

Whether or not a game has 1000 hours of play isn't really dependent on how long the developer says it takes to go through the main story and side quests/missions. It depends on whether or not you, as the player, WANT to play for 1000 hours. This might be because you're willing to wander around just viewing the scenery, or because you're quite happy to grind for experience for days at a time. Or it may be because the game holds your interest enough to make it worth replaying over and over again, trying different builds, different choices, different ways of getting from A to B, hell, even different romances. Or you can speedrun it in a couple of hours and then play it another 500 times to see if you can beat your personal best. Or it gets mods that give replay value. Or all of the above.

Or you can get a game advertised as over 300 hours of content and find it lasts 7 hours before you give up out of boredom and never look at it again. (Looking at you, Skyrim)

I don't get the DLC reference - is the suggestion that expansion packs last this long? While it would be great for expansion packs to last as long as the original game, there are, again, practical considerations in terms of how long they'd take to develop. I've no problem with them charging for bigger expansion packs, but I'd rather they brought out smaller ones, maybe 10 hours or so, at a higher frequency. Just make sure that the toolkit is there for the modders.

 

[jiminyshrewster]

Voted 25-100 hrs

Realistically speaking, It would be very difficult to crunch 1000 hrs of content in a single game let alone for different roles and playstyles. In todays generation, 100 hrs out of one playthrough is more than enough for a game(some games don't even last 5 hrs on campaign mode). The Witcher 2 wasn't very long and it was well paced and had sufficient length.

I don't see the point playing one character in one city more than over 100 hrs. :\

I would still prefer the DLC model for story updates and such.

 

[gregski]

There are people that played Skyrim for 100+ hours because of it's vast open-world, plenty of side(fetch) quests etc.

There are people that played Witcher 2 for 100+ hours, as they replayed the game again and again and again, because of the complex story and choice & consequence system.

 

[Garrison72]

1000?! lol, what game has that much content?

I like long games, but to me long is around 40-50 hrs. If it's a bit less and the replayability is there, like in TW2, I'm fine with that. 20 hrs or less would be a bit disappointing.

 

[braindancer12]

There are people that played Skyrim for 100+ hours because of it's vast open-world, plenty of side(fetch) quests etc.

There are people that played Witcher 2 for 100+ hours, as they replayed the game again and again and again, because of the complex story and choice & consequence system.

good example

 

[wisdom000]

For Cyberpunk 2077, I would be very disappointed if there wasn't a very rich story in it, almost like reading a book or watching a movie. I would also (have been) disappointed if it was going to be an on-rails type of a story, which I gather it's not going to be. However, having the freedom a sandbox brings, without disconnecting the player from the main plot like the TES-games and Fallout sort of do, will be a difficult thing to accomplish, I think.

See, I never got that... I never felt disconnected from the story, no matte how much extra crap I did, or how long I deviated from the main storyline. In fact, what these games did do, is give me the feeling that I was a part of the world. I had times where I was just doing my own thing, before duty and responsibility called me back to action, and that made what I was doing feel worthwhile. It gave me a sense of living in the world for myself, as opposed to just living as a story mechanic.

I want a game that focuses on my character, and his choices, his style, his motivations, at least as much, if not more than whatever story is unfolding in the background. My character should not exist to move the story forward, the story should exist to move my character forward.

Whether talking about table top games, or video games... what I always remember most fondly is not the story... it's the moments. Often these moments have nothing to do with the storyline at all. For me, Fallout 3 was about discovering the abandoned school full of raiders, and of walking into Megaton for the very first time... In Fallout NV the moments I remember best were Fighting an overwhelming number of raiders who teams up with Ceasars legion bounty hunters, and had me pinned down, alone, in a ramshackle town in the middle of nowhere.surviving by the absolute skin of my teeth. Or Hunting up north, so come up on the summit of a plateau and seeing an incredible sunset.

In Gta, running from the police, taking a perfect corner, inching between two parked cars, and hitting a ramp on the other side to go soaring off over the freeway, to safely land on the other side. All at sunrise, with the panoramic view of the stunt jump rotating around my character.... it was a perfect gaming moment. In Saints Row 2, jumping out of a helicopter as swat is trying to shoot me down, landing on their helicopter, taking it over, and racing back to my helipad to store it while they furiously chase me.... Christ I don't think my adrenaline has ever flowed that hard playing a video game...

These moments made my character feel alive, they connected me to him... They were visceral. They felt like accomplishments. And truthfully, nothing in any of the Metal Gear games, nothing in Deus Ex, ever came close to giving me that feeling.

In fact, the story in Deus Ex was really kind of shit in the first place. It was rife with cliche and just always felt forced. At no time did I connect to adam jensen, at no time did I even care about him. He was so one dimensional it hurt, and the whole story was just one more in a long line of "chosen one saves the world" bullshit.

The whole time I play a story driven game, it leaves me with the feeling of being wholly irrelevant. The game wants me to play its story, and everything else be damned. I might as well watch a movie or read a book for that. I want to tell MY story, I want my character to be the driving force of the game, not the background plot.

This isn't to say the background plot can't be good. The stories for both Fallout NV, RDR, GTA4 and Sleeping Dogs were just fine. Hell RDR and Sleeping Dogs stories were some of th best I have ever seen in a game. If you felt disconnected to them, then that is a personal thing. Nothing stops you from playing straight through the main story, so you stay on the rails as it were. For m,. it in fact felt exactly the opposite, I felt MORE connected to the story in those games, and to my character, because the story took place at my choosing. When the "GM" dangled a plot hook in my face, it was my choice whether to bite, or come back to it later... and that made it feel like My story. It felt alive.

 

[netra]

Honestly, i'd rather have a good 30-50 hours of gameplay with high re playability than upwards of 100 hours of dragging plot developments, pointless fillers, and a watered down, stretched out story.