Creature Subspecies Variety

[FANt0M]

You can post what would be the thread's opening post here in this thread, and we'll move it to a new thread. Include your desired title in the post.

Awesome, thanks. Then I compile screenshots in collages (less images more information) and post text soon here.

For the suggestion, we have a dedicated Suggestions board. Go ahead and post that here, and ping any of the moderation team when it's written. We'll move it.

Well, I think once I publish it tomorrow, you'll have a better vision of where and how to place it here. For me, this isn't so much a discussion point (although I think there will be some who agree with me), but rather an opportunity to voice an idea based on what I've already seen in Witcher 1-2-3, so that it can be noticed by some real developers.

Post automatically merged: Apr 1, 2026

Okay, here is theme I wanted to post:
Title: Bestiary idea for The Witcher 4 - tracking discovered monster variants

Hello RED team.
One of my favourite aspects of the Witcher games has always been the Bestiary. I first grew attached to it in The Witcher, was very glad to see it return in The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings, and in The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt I genuinely enjoyed it like a child discovering a collection album.

I also tend to love similar systems in other games. Creature catalogues in Dungeon Siege II and the machine catalogues in the Horizon Zero Dawn/Forbidden West series were always very satisfying for me. Even the mobile game The Witcher: Monster Slayer had a surprisingly enjoyable monster collection system before it was shut down.

For me the Bestiary is not only a gameplay tool that explains monster weaknesses. It also feels like a chronicle of the witcher’s journey, slowly filling up as you explore the world, complete contracts and encounter new creatures.


One thing that always impressed me in The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt is how much visual variation exists within the same monster species.
However, most Bestiary entries represent a species with only one illustration and one entry, even though the actual creatures encountered in the world can vary quite significantly.

For example, drowners appear in couple distinct forms. Some are bald with mohawk while others have hair or fin-like crests. Some have simple limbs, while others develop more pronounced fins.
Grave hags and water hags also show noticeable variation. Besides their characteristic swollen belly, some individuals have natural fungal growths on their bodies, while others decorate themselves with bones or remains of their victims.
Nekkers sometimes appear with different forms of primitive “armour”, different horns (or ears) directions, and even different war paint patterns.
Foglets can also vary in skull structure: some have a rear bone plate, not just round skull or/and develop additional horn-like protrusions.
Flying monsters show similar diversity. Harpies come in various forms - not just the standard harpies and erynias, but also regional variants that differ in color and may have additional “clothing” or feathers (maybe it's celaeno).
Large monsters are no exception. Fiends encountered across the world are rare and usually differ greatly in fur coverage, horn shapes and colour.
Wraiths also show interesting variation in their visual storytelling. Some are bound to a gravestone behind them, while others appear as hanged spirits with a rope around their neck and a sack over their head. They also carry different improvised weapons, from fence poles to rusted blades.
Another memorable example are arachas — large insectoid monsters that appear in several forms, including armored and poisonous variants, with beautifully designed variations which is most noticeable in the shell of the armored ones.

All these details make the world feel biologically diverse and carefully crafted, but most of this variation is not currently reflected in the Bestiary.

Because of this, the Bestiary sometimes feels like it represents only the idea of a species rather than the full diversity that actually exists in the world.

So, based on what I’ve said above, here’s a small suggestion of mine. Yes, it sounds ambitious, but I hope someone on the development team will like this idea.
In a future Witcher game such as The Witcher 4 (to be honest, I'd really like to see that in the Witcher 3 too, but I understand that I'm about a decade too late to make such a wish) it could be very interesting if Bestiary entries allowed players to track discovered variants of a monster species.

For example:
Monster species page like it already was and exist:

• general lore
• weaknesses
• behaviour description

But it's image/model have variant tabs unlocked through encounters.

So when the player encounters a new variation of the creature, an additional tab could unlock showing:

• an illustration or model of that variant
• a short descriptive note (which can replace regular description)
• where that variation is typically encountered (if it not really random)

This would turn the Bestiary into something closer to a witcher’s field journal documenting the diversity of monsters, rather than just a single static entry per species.

Also one design choice I really appreciated is that some creatures can be recorded in the Bestiary even if the player does not kill them. For example, during a Skellige quests it is possible to encounter magma troll Wham-a-Wham and resolve the situation peacefully. The creature is still recorded in the Bestiary because Geralt encountered it and learned about it.
This small detail reinforces the feeling that the Bestiary represents knowledge and experience, not simply a list of enemies defeated.
A system that tracks discovered monster variants would fit very naturally with this idea.

Why this could work well:

1. It strengthens the Bestiary as a collection system
   Players would feel motivated to discover not only new species but also their variations.
2. It highlights the creature design work
   The Witcher games clearly contain a huge amount of creature design detail that many players may never consciously notice.
3. It fits the witcher fantasy perfectly
   A professional monster hunter documenting variations within species feels very natural within the lore.
4. It rewards exploration
   Rare variants could appear only in certain regions, contracts or unique encounters.

Even without changing the core Bestiary concept, this small addition could make it feel even more like a true witcher’s field journal.
Thank you for creating such an incredibly rich world.

 

[SigilFey]

Post moved!

 

[FANt0M]

Post moved!

Thank you. For the sake of clarity in the introduction, should I delete the part where I replied to the messages in the “Welcome” section?

 

[SigilFey]

Thank you. For the sake of clarity in the introduction, should I delete the part where I replied to the messages in the “Welcome” section?

Oh yeah, whatever! It's still your post. You should be able to edit it at will.

 

[Netaxus]

Why this could work well:

1. It strengthens the Bestiary as a collection system
   Players would feel motivated to discover not only new species but also their variations.
2. It highlights the creature design work
   The Witcher games clearly contain a huge amount of creature design detail that many players may never consciously notice.
3. It fits the witcher fantasy perfectly
   A professional monster hunter documenting variations within species feels very natural within the lore.
4. It rewards exploration
   Rare variants could appear only in certain regions, contracts or unique encounters.

5. The primary reason is the depth of the world. it suggests that the game world is alive, not a mise-en-scene but actually existing. This is a seed structure suggestion, it extrapolates onto all aspects of the game. It isn't ambitions it is a core requirement. Why viewing Lord of the Rings, because of this element. To speak for myself, this was the reason I played The Witcher in the first place, why I liked it. Without the beasts it were just a 0815 game, standard serial. I wouldn't take care to go deep. Its a giving and taking balance, if I feel given, I give back! I just like myself too much to waste an opportunity for honoring myself. Now I say, your welcome!

Here I described it on the example of MassEffect:
New EXODUS™ Gameplay: Exploring A Distant Frozen World

I have many points I miss in the bestiary:
As you described, there is cultural awareness or tribal dept of consciousness on some creatures of which I miss a deeper display. The kind of having humans for pray requires a depth of consciousness and with that clothing or tools and "settlements" even parasitic of human settlements - Vampires.

I would distinguish between consciousness level:
Every level of consciousness suggests pack hunting but with higher consciousness the likeliness reaches certainty, not habitual evolutionary adaption only.

A interesting origin of this humanoid hybrids could be Brokilon.
"The Water of Brokilon often activates the magical abilities in young girls, in similar way the Witcher mutagens do it in Witchers." --
Interesting alternative catalysts alternative for elder blood.

• Higher consciousness -- human like
  Bruxe/Alb -- Generally spoken, I don't understand the different categorizing
  As we all like cats, lone hunters, is not true, lions hunt in packs.
  I would make the main difference in the preferation of hunting or which magical use they have to differentiate.
  • Here we don't have question of tools.
    • We have a need for culture, how is it to be a Bruxe or Alb of what do you sing, how do you threat your meals. How they toy with the food. How do you sleep, head over?, and where in nature, so you like caves etc. There aren't much caves out there, maybe if there would be some kind of big worm that digs them, but if you don't have it. Maybe they live like Gypsy. You go from town hunting ground to hunting ground by equally begin flexible, flew the scene until the heat lowers. Then we ask us how are their carts designed, do we see cultural elements that embrace this philosophie of man hunt!?
  • Form of housing:
    • Does they burn in light or does it only hurt them painfully!? Not something you want to relex in?
      • Gypsy
        • Kingdom Comes Deliverance 2 Gypsies
      • Caves/abandoned mine shafts -- This games suggests that there is an offer and demand for this places on a regular bases
      • Cellars
      • Spoiler: Gypsy carts

        

        
        

        
  • Dryads - Evolution, StraCraft Zerg like, symbioses of different organism, equally to an insect hive
    • Spoiler: Wraith StarGate

      

      

      
      [*]
    • Brokilon suggest that formally naturally, it is lore conform. Here it is a difficult balancing to visualize that, how far Zerg and how to express it to not feeling too much. It is desired to have some kind of interact ability with humans or humanoids in general. This is really delicate, if this feels off too much you can't fix it sociologically and psychologically afterwards. Sure you can, but this is a main trigger, it shapes nature and magical attributes of every living being, damage is tremendous if first impression.
• Medium consciousness -- the question is, does one wants a further distinguishing, if not, human like.
  • Sirens/Ekhidna -- problem of air and water logistics, flying suggests a land hunting and potentially mountain nests or settlements, as the air flows there, thermals, allow energy saving flight, means only coastal regions would support air thermals.
    • Sirens/Ekhidna could be a subspecies of Harpy/Erynia
      • Coastal - Sirens/Ekhidna
      • Mountains - Harpy/Erynia
    • Question arrive on,
      • How far does their transformation go?
      • Do they need to cover some body parts?
      • Could they walk in full form?
    • River or lakes are generally good hunting grounds as the sexual pull and the inability to escape the situation allows an exposure of the victim. Normally a paralyzing toxin should be more effective then pure force.
      Thoughts on liquefaction, spider or just paralyzing alive. When we syntheses it with the succubi we have the aspect of magical energy feeding, means, the sexual aspect isn't pure slaughter as more a game, like succubi thatcreate a precedence case, which furtherly suggests an evolutionary develop this hunting methods. You won't be paralyzed as you needed for willing participation until you get paralyzed and eaten black widow like.
      • I say it simple: For what giving a monster tits and this hunting method by nothing fu**ing!? Why so much effort on nature side? This is the tension spike by it! You know you would die, but until then it needs to be sweet.
• Lower consciousness -- primitive tribal
  • Nekker
    • Primitive tools
    • Primitive clothing -- neanderthals
    • Shelter tents
    • Tribal dances and music
  • Erynia/Harpy
• Animal consciousness
  • Wolf
  • Bear
  • Griffin

 

[FANt0M]

Netaxus, what you’ve written - in my opinion, you’ve developed the idea to the level of a scientific treatise within the game world. It’s as if, for example, you were reading a book about monsters in the Oxenfurt Library not as a single page of interesting or funny text, but as a full-fledged book with articles, images and schemes, a scientific treatise. And it can be really cool to look but not as bestiary but as information itself.

I, however, view the bestiary specifically as working notes. And in the game, that’s exactly what it is: an image, a briefing text, and vulnerability icons. But beyond being a dry guidebook, it’s also an item for in-game collecting. And the game already has tons of content for that purpose, which the bestiary itself ignores. I’m confident that the next game installment will pay just as much attention to the encountered content - that is, species diversity, unique individuals in specific quests, and changes in appearance due to climate and terrain conditions. And this fairly simple addition to the bestiary mechanics could be made into a special feature for players who love this kind of in-game collecting, where they explore every single question mark on Skellige.​

That’s my point here. If we look specifically at how the bestiary looks in the third game, it could involve adding tabs as new species are discovered. I don’t know how it will be in the next game, but I’m sure something like this will remain - it’s unlikely they’d deprive us of such a cool aspect - and I hope that everything I’ve written here as a sort of feedback with the note “this is cool, but it could be improved” catches the eye and appeals to someone involved in realization.​

 

[Netaxus]

Netaxus, what you’ve written - in my opinion, you’ve developed the idea to the level of a scientific treatise within the game world. It’s as if, for example, you were reading a book about monsters in the Oxenfurt Library not as a single page of interesting or funny text, but as a full-fledged book with articles, images and schemes, a scientific treatise. And it can be really cool to look but not as bestiary but as information itself.​

​

I, however, view the bestiary specifically as working notes. And in the game, that’s exactly what it is: an image, a briefing text, and vulnerability icons. But beyond being a dry guidebook, it’s also an item for in-game collecting. And the game already has tons of content for that purpose, which the bestiary itself ignores. I’m confident that the next game installment will pay just as much attention to the encountered content - that is, species diversity, unique individuals in specific quests, and changes in appearance due to climate and terrain conditions. And this fairly simple addition to the bestiary mechanics could be made into a special feature for players who love this kind of in-game collecting, where they explore every single question mark on Skellige.​

That’s my point here. If we look specifically at how the bestiary looks in the third game, it could involve adding tabs as new species are discovered. I don’t know how it will be in the next game, but I’m sure something like this will remain - it’s unlikely they’d deprive us of such a cool aspect - and I hope that everything I’ve written here as a sort of feedback with the note “this is cool, but it could be improved” catches the eye and appeals to someone involved in realization.​

I just like the order, it clarifies many things. For the Conifers for example

• Conifers
  • Norway spruce (Picea abies): Most common tree; needles are prickly, cones hang down and fall off whole.
  • Alpine fir (Abies alba, Nordmann fir): Needles are soft and rounded; cones stand upright and disintegrate on the tree.
  • Sylvester (Pinus sylvestris): Long needles that grow in pairs; often reddish, scaly bark.
  • Larch (Larix decidua): Special feature: Sheds its needles in autumn, which turn golden yellow beforehand.
  • Yew (Taxus baccata): Very shade-tolerant, poisonous, has red arils (seed coats).
  • Douglas fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii): Soft needles that smell lemony when crushed.
  • Arborvitae (Thuja): Common hedging plant with scale-like needles.
  • Cypress/False cypress: Often compact, popular in gardens.
• Deep-rooted trees: yew, pine, larch, fir, juniper.
• Shallow-rooted trees: spruce.

Mostly taken in a different language like the magical language of the Aen Seidhe, Hen Llinge. It would be logical to use this language to describe this animals/beings. The feeling would be better, the normal way of funds and interest to describe this phenomenon are witches and wizards that basically need to use the Hen Llinge to do anything. I mean it would be logical, this would create the desired outcome.
Translator English to Hen Llinge/Elder Speech
This mages can get older as normal people 300 until 400 years. They needed to fight against monsters to survive, it had top priority. It would be written down.

In example of an Vampire/Undead/Night-walker:

It has been theorized that the strength and diversity of vampires is dependent on the age, this assumption allows a better categorization of vampires and will be ordered for better overview, the scientific gathering of mages consensus on this theory in 850 h.v. For sightings and information of behavior is the Loge or Oxenfurt connection agent willing to pay a good considerable amount of coin.

• Vampyrus/Inmortui/Nocturnus ambulator
  • Older = more powerful
    • Very Old
      • vampyrus vetustissimus
        • Unseen
    • Old
      • vampyrus vetus
        • Regis
        • Dettlaff
    • Medium
      • vampyrus medius
        • Bruxa
        • Vampyrus Bruxa man
    • Young
      • vampyrus iuvenis
        • Alp
        • Vampyrus Alp man
    • Very Young
      • vampyrus iuvenissimus
  • This suggests the question, if all are female, how do they reproduce, though human or Elfen reproduction.

Wiki Higher Vampires

If one categorize them differential it is no "scientific" approach, if feels messy. The same with individuals who you meet which get their own categorie, which is to much for an individual. They could get simply and entry to the generically build categorize as en added specimen. I would use this Bestiary game overlapping, if the Witcher meet one specimen, it won't be excluded in the next Bestiary. It is the tracking of his history, his Journey.

This is how I feel the required depth of description. There is something ongoing and the Witcher isn't always new in the world. Maybe he writes something of every encounter of monster of a species for other Witcher to adapt. There will be a note in his Bestiary for that encounters with repeating behavioral statistics, they repeat themselves, but this is analyses. You never know if it maybe important.