Crime system

[wichat]

Ethical or not, there's one thing sure: My Geralt doesn't suffer diogenes syndrome, and stealing in poor people's houses only lead you to acumulate garbage and trash. The money you get looting their chests and cabinets is not worth the time you lose doing it.

For this same reason I think CDPR has ignored implement a crime System for an act ultimately as illogical as stealing garbage ... And the few worthy of being interesting objects which you can find there can be purchased with gold that are in the containers without master ..

 

[Agent_Blue]

except the player then suffers severe consequences.

Which has been my point all along.

Impunity is the real issue. If you want to enforce Geralt's moral compass upon the player do it intelligently.

 

[ironclaw]

Yeah I don't think there should be a crime system. Just other systems built into the game's story, where npcs react based on your other choices.

If you start fights frequently, I'd love to see NPCS, upon seeing you(especially villagers), go quiet, start talking amongst themselves, or even run into their houses and lock the door, then see curtains pulled back as they look at you.

But a crime system, a morality system, a reputation system (like a score)... I don't think that would work very well. Seeing the characters react to specific events is enough for me, and in fact much more realistic.

 

[ReptilePZ]

Which has been my point all along.

Impunity is the real issue. If you want to enforce Geralt's moral compass upon the player do it intelligently.

Yes, I see you point. The thing is, no matter what, the character would not go out of his way to steal stuff unless there's a particular reason for it. While those consequences discourage the player from breaking the main charcter's personality, they don't completly prevent that - so something that should not happen in the story... still occurs. Why? Because Geralt suddenly decided that the 20 gold in that one drawer is more important than his morality?

But, honestly, if that would appease people, I'm willing to make that compromise. I just don't think it's worth devoting time and effort for the system at that point.

 

[wichat]

TruelyI rather spend my time in dicepoker as in TW1 than stealing in order to get some coins...

 

[dragoonlordz]

When you say "their Geralts" it becomes clear that you don't understand my point. It's not your Geralt. It's Sapkowski's Geralt. And the player should role-play him as such. The only way o ensure that is to remove the option to steal.

Bloth's suggestion still has the player breaking Geralt's character (which is why I don't think it's a better solution than simply not making the items inside people's houses lootable), except the player then suffers severe consequences.

All choice related to quest conclusions, dialogue or even stealing alters Sapkowski's Geralt. It has not been Sapkowski's Geralt from the moment the first game was created by allowing choice to become part of the game. It became the players version of Geralt. It's the difference between playing a game with such choices or playing a linear FF title where you have no choice to alter the narrative or have a difference to the personality. But in this game you are also given the freedom to match the personality of what you perceive as Sapowski's Geralt to remain the same as the one you play.

However make no mistake it stopped being his Geralt the moment choice was offered in branching dialogue, different choices in quest resolution and different choices in actions to achieve your goals. It IS the players version of Geralt in TW1, TW2 and should be in TW3. How close you keep it what you think is Geralts true self is upto you and you should not take away from others just because you wish to play that way. Doing so is the most selfish thing that you could ever ask for on here.

 

[talkshowhost]

To be totally honest, I was a bit put off every time Geralt waltz into any house and basically stole people's stuff. I wish they would get rid of that in the W3.

Did he do it by himself?

An open world needs to have the illusion of a proper world, so a basic thieving system and reputation must be there. Since the player controls Geralt he should have the choice.

 

[ReptilePZ]

All choice related to quest conclusions, dialogue or even stealing alters Sapkowski's Geralt. It has not been Sapkowski's Geralt from the moment the first game was created by allowing choice to become part of the game. It became the players version of Geralt. It's the difference between playing a game with such choices or playing a linear FF title where you have no choice to alter the narrative or have a difference to the personality. But in this game you are also given the freedom to match the personality of what you perceive as Sapowski's Geralt to remain the same as the one you play.

However make no mistake it stopped being his Geralt the moment choice was offered in branching dialogue, different choices in quest resolution and different choices in actions to achieve your goals. It IS the players version of Geralt in TW1, TW2 and should be in TW3. How close you keep it what you think is Geralts true self is upto you and you should not take away from others just because you wish to play that way. Doing so is the most selfish thing that you could ever ask for on here.

All of the choices in quests are morally grey, Sapkowski's Geralt could have gone either way in those situations. You just play out the different scenarios. Unlike, say, BioWare games, you don't choose between evil vs. good, you choose between two not ideal situations. Either of those are equally plausible for Geralt to choose and can be justified. Stealing for absolutely no real reason, however, simply cannot be justified in any way.

As I've said before, looting items from houses was never considered stealing in the previou games in terms of the narrative, so it was not an issue (for the plot). With a crime system, you're altering the character's morality so that becomes a problem.

 

[ReptilePZ]

Did he do it by himself?

An open world needs to have the illusion of a proper world, so a basic thieving system and reputation must be there. Since the player controls Geralt he should have the choice.

An open world only suggests a game world open for exploration, thus the name "open world". It does not mean the game MUST have stealing, eating, pooping, taking a piss, taking a bath, farming, taking your dog for a walk etc. It'd be called a life sim otherwise.

 

[dragoonlordz]

All of the choices in quests are morally grey, Sapkowski's Geralt could have gone either way in those situations. You just play out the different scenarios. Unlike, say, BioWare games, you don't choose between evil vs. good, you choose between two not ideal situations. Either of those are equally plausible for Geralt to choose and can be justified. Stealing for absolutely no real reason, however, simply cannot be justified in any way.

As I've said before, looting items from houses was never considered stealing in the previou games in terms of the narrative, so it was not an issue (for the plot). With a crime system, you're altering the character's morality so that becomes a problem.

Sapkowski's Geralt would not have gone either way. It would of gone one way which is the way Sapkowski would of chosen for himself had he made that choice for Geralt when written in a book etc. By the act of offering that choice to the player it no longer can be Sapkowski's Geralt anymore unless the choice you make matches what Sapkowski himself would have chosen for every single choice you make in the game.

 

[ReptilePZ]

Sapkowski's Geralt would not have gone either way. It would of gone one way which is the way Sapkowski would of chosen for himself had he made that choice written in a book etc. By the act of offering that choice to the player it no longer can be Sapkowski's Geralt anymore because what choice you pick may not be the one Sapkowski did choose if had chosen.

The point is, Sapkowski *could* have chosen either of those possibilities because they are equally valid.

Stealing under normal circumstances, however, is not something the character does and cannot be justified.

You never answered the question: "Do you honestly imagine the character Geralt of Rivia talking to a guy, waiting for him to turn his back on him so he can start going through his personal belongings?"

Player freedom is one thing, breaking a character's personality in a heavily story-driven game is absurd. It's including an unnecessary element for the sake of having it. Player choice dictates that Geralt should have the ability to be an archer. Yet that, much like stealing, goes against the lore. Even worse, it goes against the character's own personality.

 

[talkshowhost]

An open world only suggests a game world open for exploration, thus the name "open world". It does not mean the game MUST have stealing, eating, pooping, taking a piss, taking a bath, farming, taking your dog for a walk etc.

So you think that a thieving and reputation system is so unimportant in an open world RPG as pooping and taking a piss?

I'm glad you are not a developer my friend.

 

[Ancient76]

I've changed lol! I've gained lots of respect for CDPR after playing Witcher 2 and I'm very much looking forward to 3. I'm more excited for W3 then whatever Beth will put out next (most likely Fallout 4). What's your username on Beth forums? Are you S.T.A.R.A.C.

I hope you did?

Yes I'm S.T.A.R.A.C..

My own hope if a crime system is implemented, and Geralt is caught on the pinch, that the game hits him where it hurts, right in the quests. Merchants in the vicinity of the crime drive up their prices for the thieving mutant, bounties for monsters pay less and some small quests are automatically failed, as the npcs state: "I do not deal with thieving mutant freaks!" The journal is updated with quest failed at this point and we have lost out on that most precious of resources, sweet xp.

I can't see him being jailed by back country peasants or even local militia, that won't have the balls. Maybe a night in the cells if in Novigrad, which leaves him with a bare knuckle fight, a considerably lighter purse and a few missing belongings. After all if the White Wolf can pinch, so can his gaolers.

Edit: In Skellige the locals'd probably just attack him, maybe call him out to a Holmgang.

Good idea.

 

[wichat]

About TW3: Im sure that we'll can find a lot of items for looting in No Man's Land's abandoned scenarios, or Novigrad's municipal dunghills or from wrecks on the beaches of Skillege... So those who prefer don't steal to owners, poor o rich, shouldn't have any problem with law or morality...


I'd prefer CDPR spend time working in a great fight System than creating a new untested and weird crime System, IMO.

 

[ReptilePZ]

So you think that a thieving and reputation system is so unimportant in an open world RPG as pooping and taking a piss?

I'm glad you are not a developer my friend.

It can be important in *an* open world game. Not in this one, though. In The Witcher games, story > mechanics.

 

[talkshowhost]

It can be important in *an* open world game. Not in this one, though. In The Witcher games, story > mechanics.

The player should have the choice. In an open world game the world must offer realistic possibilities to the player. If a player wants to play Geralt as a thief they should have the option, even a basic one. It all comes down to the player choice in interacting with the world.

 

[ReptilePZ]

The player should have the choice. In an open world game the world must offer realistic possibilities to the player. If a player wants to play Geralt as a thief they should have the option, even a basic one. It all comes down to the player choice in interacting with the world.

Ponder this for a second:

"

An open world is a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives.[1] The term "free roam" is also used, as is "sandbox" and "free-roaming".[2][3] "Open world" and "free-roaming" suggest the absence of artificial barriers,[4] in contrast to the invisible walls and loading screens that are common in linear level designs. An "open world" game does not necessarily imply a sandbox. In a true "sandbox", the player has tools to modify the world themselves and create how they play.[5] Generally open world games still enforce some restrictions in the game environment, either due to absolute technical limitations or in-game limitations (such as locked areas) imposed by a game's linearity."

Hmm... no mention of stealing, only free exploration and several solutions to problems. Oh, and restrictions are allowed. Well, shiet.

 

[dragoonlordz]

The point is, Sapkowski *could* have chosen either of those possibilities because they are equally valid.

Stealing under normal circumstances, however, is not something the character does and cannot be justified.

You never answered the question: "Do you honestly imagine the character Geralt of Rivia talking to a guy, waiting for him to turn his back on him so he can start going through his personal belongings?"

Player freedom is one thing, breaking a character's personality in a heavily story-driven game is absurd. It's including an unnecessary element for the sake of having it. Player choice dictates that Geralt should have the ability to be an archer. Yet that, much like stealing, goes against the lore. Even worse, it goes against the character's own personality.

He could of also chosen to enter someones house without permission or taking something that does not belong to him in game. Had Sapkowski played the game I think you would find he would of done so. By giving the choice to the player the player becomes 'Sapkowski' over what the character does. Geralt of Rivia is who I chose him to be based on the choices offered to me. Who he was before I took control of shaping his actions, his choices and his personality is no longer the same person, he has become my variation of Geralt since the first choice made back when played TW1 up till now.

You the player are shaping Geralt from the first game until the last, it is no longer Sapkowski's Geralt it is your interpretation of him played out through choices offered to you. If class system was offered to the player, the player would have every right to have Geralt roleplay as an archer, that becomes Geralts future self like every choice in the game which changes Geralt from who he was to who he becomes.

You really are being a very self centered and selfish person in what your asking for. You asking them to take something away from others because you do not want to make use of it even though it is optional and has NO impact on your character in your game if others wished to do so on their own versions of Geralt in their own homes on their own copy of the game.

 

[Agent_Blue]

Ponder this for a second:

"

An open world is a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives.[1] The term "free roam" is also used, as is "sandbox" and "free-roaming".[2][3] "Open world" and "free-roaming" suggest the absence of artificial barriers,[4] in contrast to the invisible walls and loading screens that are common in linear level designs. An "open world" game does not necessarily imply a sandbox. In a true "sandbox", the player has tools to modify the world themselves and create how they play.[5] Generally open world games still enforce some restrictions in the game environment, either due to absolute technical limitations or in-game limitations (such as locked areas) imposed by a game's linearity."

Hmm... no mention of stealing, only free exploration and several solutions to problems. Oh, and restrictions are allowed. Well, shiet.

An open world is a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives

Yup, you shot yourself in the foot.

 

[ReptilePZ]

Yup, you shot yourself in the foot.

Freedom to approach an objective =/= stealing. If there was an objective/quest that Geralt could solve through stealing, then I am fully for enabling stealing for that section. Pretty sure my foot is just fine. Notice the place where it says restrictions may apply because of game's linearity. Geralt's personality enforces a certain type of linearity when interacting with loot belonging to other people. Thus, a restriction is applied.