Crime system

[wichat]

Hey if my Geralt is a pervert who likes rummaging through peoples drawers let him, if he is short a few gold pieces to buy that nice new shiny sword then let him break open a piggy bank or two. Point is it does no harm to anyone else playing, does not effect their game playing not even their role playing because they are not making the same choice to do so.

If CDPR wants to go closer to the Geralt from books, then I hope, I pray, I invoke to their common sense in order to restrict the steal choice when it'd not be a quest requirement.

TW3 won't be as all other open-worlds so better we don't expect to find the same "open-freedom". There's a story-line to follow and a very, very pre-customized character

 

[dragoonlordz]

Well, as we have explained before, while it’s true that we who oppose those mechanics are not immediately affected by them (safe by their inherent temptation, I guess) there are other reasons why we think it’s a good idea to not include them. Mainly, that doing so saves development resources, specifically: the time it takes to design/conceive, program, test, bug-fix them, and prevents un-lore-like situations from occurring.

You know another game that kept everyone's doors locked? DA2, look how well that turned out. Took away player agency which was big mistake, so much so they have done a 180 and promised to focus a lot more on giving the players back the freedoms they took away. Also crafted a lifeless city supplied with house after house of locked doors you could not enter or explore which to me made it feel like I was a puppet on a plywood set and all the doors were merely painted on.

Personally I think they have already added what your asking them not to add. I think asking them not to add it would be more inline with removing what they have already being doing. It is very likely based on both previous games allowing it too, that they designed this one with same principle in mind.

 

[dragoonlordz]

If CDPR wants to go closer to the Geralt from books, then I hope, I pray, I invoke to their common sense in order to restrict the steal choice when it'd not be a quest requirement.

TW3 won't be as all other open-worlds so better we don't expect to find the same "open-freedom". There's a story-line to follow and a very, very pre-customized character

The fact in TW2 you could also steal, trespass and such yet did not impact the story in any negative way makes me think it will make no difference this time either to those who wish to not make use of such.

I would say the opposite to yourself, TW1 and TW2 both had such freedom, so if I was others I would go in expecting to be able to do it in the final game like the previous two if I was you or them.

 

[Demut]

So because in this regard they arguably messed up the first two times they shouldn’t try to fix it in the third installment? What kind of argument is that?

 

[dragoonlordz]

So because in this regard they arguably messed up the first two times they shouldn’t try to fix it in the third installment? What kind of argument is that?

As far as I am concerned they did not mess up so there is nothing to fix. As long as they keep it optional I see no reason to remove it and at this stage I am sure they have began to add it already based on past titles. In order for something to be fixed first it must be broken and I do not consider an optional element of a game to be broken just because it is an option offered to the player, an option you do not have to choose.

 

[MarcAuron]

Stealing should be reduced , most certainly not made in to a skill. What would be the next thing bows and mass murder.
Entering houses for interaction with characters yes, maybe even for a quest item but the loot hoarding should not be encouraged .

 

[ReptilePZ]

 

[username_2064020]

Stealing should be reduced , most certainly not made in to a skill. What would be the next thing bows and mass murder.
Entering houses for interaction with characters yes, maybe even for a quest item but the loot hoarding should not be encouraged .

Except the topic of this thread is not making stealing a skill, it's about having a world that is more convincing at reacting if you steal.
Which, on a side note, is something they already confirmed is going to happen.
And I'm VERY glad for that. This franchise desperately needs more player agency, interaction and a more reactive environment -

 

[vivaxardas2015]

Except the topic of this thread is not making stealing a skill, it's about having a world that is more convincing at reacting if you steal.
Which, on a side note, is something they already confirmed is going to happen.
And I'm VERY glad for that. This franchise desperately needs more player agency, interaction and a more reactive environment -

 

[username_2064020]

In Gothic we couldn't even walk in faction buildings and rooms without being attacked if spotted.

It was actually far more gradual than that.
You had people that started keeping you in check, then warned you to leave if annoyed and then threatened/attacked you when openly hostile.
It could also be improved further with "relatively) little work. FOr instance I'd like finally to see a game where you don't go from "best buddies" to "I will kill you" if you steal an apple from the table.
There could be intermediate reactions like "Hey, you could at least ask permission!" or stuff like that.

or Geralt will turn out to be so customizable as being Geralt in name only.

Sometimes I almost wish that was the case, because every time I spot someone advocating for a worse, duller game just because "Geralt is a very well defined character" (sometime when that's not even relevant) I feel the urge to kick a puppy.

 

[Demut]

That doesn’t exactly put you in a good light, you know ?

To be honest I wouldn't want to have too much freedom in TW3, or Geralt will turn out to be so customizable as being Geralt in name only.

Verily. Imagine them giving us the option of a gender-bent Geraldine *barf*

 

[username_2064020]

That doesn’t exactly put you in a good light, you know /

I'm not here for the good light, but to fight for a good cause.

 

[vivaxardas2015]

Sometimes I almost wish that was the case, because every time I spot someone advocating for a worse, duller game just because "Geralt is a very well defined character" (sometime when that's not even relevant) I feel the urge to kick a puppy.

Oh, please, don't kick a puppy on my account. Still, there should be some limits for Geralt. Going on killing sprees in Novigrad should be out of the question. As well as robbing people blind. TW3 will be about a story, search for loved ones, a war, and Wild Hunt. When it is a case, it would be weird to drop doing quest progressing stuff for criminal activities Geralt was never a part of. May be TW3 is compared to games like Skyrim, TW3 is not a sand-box where a protagonist can do whatever a hell he wants. Why Geralt would steal an apple anyway? Or any meager stuff from people's homes? Wouldn't it be more reasonable for a professional monster-slayer to hunt monsters and earn way more money this way than by some petty thievery?

 

[Demut]

I'm not here for the good light, but to fight for a good cause.

Being remembered as a puppy kicker doesn’t help that, I’m sure

 

[MarcAuron]

Except the topic of this thread is not making stealing a skill, it's about having a world that is more convincing at reacting if you steal.
Which, on a side note, is something they already confirmed is going to happen.
And I'm VERY glad for that. This franchise desperately needs more player agency, interaction and a more reactive environment -

 

[ReptilePZ]

You heard it here, folks. Generic main character = better story-driven game.

Brilliant.

 

[username_2064020]

You heard it here, folks. Generic main character = better story-driven game.

Brilliant.

No, the argument is more like:
Story driven games, that try way too hard to be cinematic and are more fond of their own (usually unimpressive) narrative for their own sake = bad.
Player agency, reactive subsystems, vast interaction with environment and characters = good.

 

[username_2064020]

Making a world to react to stealing which is a mechanic completely obsolete for Geralt, creates the need to create different path finding systems for NPC 's that are expected to react .
To create the consequence for stealing requires a mechanic that will enable Geralt to succeed or fail which would be a skill or something similar to it.
So except for adding a few lines for a robbed house owner as a solution to the problem everything else changes things, adding additional work .
Guard reactions, even a NPC grabbing a pitchfork to defend his timber. are added paths and animation sets.
There are ways and methods of adding interactivity to the world that are better than guards running in and arresting the player for the X-th time.
They confirmed reactions, so it remains to be seen what kind of reactions are going to be added without making Geralt a scavenger that gets caught, and in the process just underlining how obsolete looting houses should be.

That's a lot of completely made up and a baseless statements for a single post.
And the solution about not making a character a scavenger is all about implementation, not strictly about rules, but we already argued this to death and back in this very thread.

 

[IsengrimR]

You heard it here, folks. Generic main character = better story-driven game.

Brilliant.

Hahah. Obviously brilliant

But back on crime system... In city - you die. In the wildness - you may die. No "stealth crime" mechanics. That would keep me satisfied, as Geralt is not a thief. End of story.

When it comes to Gothic style crime system... it was pretty good and logical to the point. Unless it's a house of a trader you seriously had nothing to do there ( apart from stealing ), so it was only logical they were demanding your leave and calling the guards. Especially that in Gothic 1-2 there was a door-eating monster that ate nearly all doors in the world, so not everyone can afford making their house a safer place by having a door. Or maybe it was just a curse of the Sleeper... Hard to tell, really.

 

[username_2064020]

Doorless buildings in a seamless world are a shortcut to awesomeness, especially when you compare them with the painful "gate system" implemented in TW2 to facilitate data streaming, or even worse to these excruciating loading times in TW1 (which admittedly improved a lot with post-release patches).


Anyway, arguing against a "crime system" in a game where you "are not supposed to be a thief" is like arguing against being able to kill NPCs in a game where "you are not supposed to be a serial killer".

Yeah, I'm not supposed to, and I don't even intend to be one, but I like to be able to kill characters because that brings even more meaning to the fact that I don't.
And I prefer a game designed around the idea that should be hard for me to kill an important character (because he's tough, well guarded, or because the consequences are severe) instead of a game that simply doesn't allow me to.
Once again: player agency to rule them all.