Now you've read 'em all, heres my current take:
I hope they do something creative but not clumsy with cyberpsychosis. I also hope it's a real threat. Playing Vampire: Bloodlines, losing your Humanity and falling to the Beast wasn't much if an issue ever.
Whereas if you put too much cyber in, yeah, you should be screwed every time, every single time.
I hope they do something creative but not clumsy with cyberpsychosis. I also hope it's a real threat. Playing Vampire: Bloodlines, losing your Humanity and falling to the Beast wasn't much if an issue ever.
Whereas if you put too much cyber in, yeah, you should be screwed every time, every single time.
Hm.
Early on in the thread, the opinion was voiced that losing character control isn't an optimal game mechanic (your character going on auto-pilot, and hosing meatbags until C-SWAT takes you down.)
However, *would* this be a reasonable penalty for stocking up on too much cyber? What would be a reasonable penalty for going over the line? We've had plenty of discussion talking about approaching the line, but not a lot about crossing it.
Well, it's not an optimal game mechanic, no. I think we discussed Red Vision and everyone a target, the more you kill, the more powerful you become until CSWAT gets you. If you stop moving or killing, you drill into your own limbs or shoot yourself or something sudden and horrible.
Agreed. I really hope that CDPR isn't afraid of letting people fail in the game and giving players hard time. As you said - it should be a REAL threat, not like "oh well, in the worst case I'll go on a killing spree, C-SWAT comes and then I wake up in a hospital with less money". That's for example the way I was feeling in GTA when going wild and blasting people around.
Maybe cyberpsychosis could get us when we least expect it, somewhere deep in the story, and make us do terrible things, like killing our loved ones for example.
The image from the trailer comes to mind. Face dead, eyes dead, corpses everywhere, not even moving to avoid the shotgun to her neck.
Total loss, failure, doom. Done.
Really something to be avoided, not look for big pop-up numbers in bright green or red as you rocket-attack another police SWAT van.
Total loss, failure, doom. Done.
Really something to be avoided, not look for big pop-up numbers in bright green or red as you rocket-attack another police SWAT van.
Yeah, you could be trying to earn rep with certain people to get information or simple things, like access to black market weapons and now that you're a psycho - no one will talk to you. They're too afraid.
Love the idea about killing your loved ones. That would suck. Put it too deep into the story where you can't just go back to an old save.
Maybe someone who was a close friend vows to kill you for what you've done. That's when Mr. Johnson shows up with an inviting smile and offers you a convenient way out. =) "My offer helps everyone, Mr. Rodriguez..."
Love the idea about killing your loved ones. That would suck. Put it too deep into the story where you can't just go back to an old save.
Maybe someone who was a close friend vows to kill you for what you've done. That's when Mr. Johnson shows up with an inviting smile and offers you a convenient way out. =) "My offer helps everyone, Mr. Rodriguez..."
So, SPOILER ALERT - you know how in Witcher 2, they split the plot into two paths at a certain point, right?
Well, how about if you go cyberpsycho, the game doesn't tell you. At all. In fact, your game splits off from the main one and goes along the Cyberpsycho Plot Path, until you are caught and cured or, more likely, killed.
And while you are in the grip of cyberpsychosis, you can and will do all sorts of horrible things for what seem like perfectly good reasons. Only, it being psychosis, a distinct break from reality, you are seeing the wrong things and your actions only vaguely resemble your real actions. Until your inevitable end arrives and suddenly, briefly, you can see reality again.
You get images of what was really happening - setting fire to your building, cutting your flesh with glass and steel, strangling your loved ones - this whole time while you thought you were chasing bad guys or saving maidens or whatever.
Only at that point does the game let you know you have,in fact, been insane for the last ten hours of gameplay.
Imagine if you came out of the Braindance a Psycho? You'd never be sure what was and what wasn't real? And not in the "it's a dream" sense, but in the seriously-in-the-grip-of-a-psychotic-break sense.
"Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?"
Well, how about if you go cyberpsycho, the game doesn't tell you. At all. In fact, your game splits off from the main one and goes along the Cyberpsycho Plot Path, until you are caught and cured or, more likely, killed.
And while you are in the grip of cyberpsychosis, you can and will do all sorts of horrible things for what seem like perfectly good reasons. Only, it being psychosis, a distinct break from reality, you are seeing the wrong things and your actions only vaguely resemble your real actions. Until your inevitable end arrives and suddenly, briefly, you can see reality again.
You get images of what was really happening - setting fire to your building, cutting your flesh with glass and steel, strangling your loved ones - this whole time while you thought you were chasing bad guys or saving maidens or whatever.
Only at that point does the game let you know you have,in fact, been insane for the last ten hours of gameplay.
Imagine if you came out of the Braindance a Psycho? You'd never be sure what was and what wasn't real? And not in the "it's a dream" sense, but in the seriously-in-the-grip-of-a-psychotic-break sense.
"Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?"
Ageed.
Agreed ..... although it shouldn't be forced on us as a necessary part of the story... it should be a consequence for getting to much cyber... but one that does "change" the story!"
I bloody love this... don't get a big head about it though sard... but yeah, there is no real notieable difference in the game.... only your missions become much more simple, and much more violent... Your mission is to infiltrate a place, to get more money, for more cybernetics. Everyone you see is an armed enemy. You news sotires, or radio broadcasts, of people being slaughtered wholeheartedly... if you leave survivors they get interviewed or mentioned, if you don't they talk about the snuippets cauight on cam, or jsut bodies found in an alley or what not. You get more missions of these missions, each getting more violent and strange... Until you fail one... then you wake up in the hospital, or in a cell... game over...
These are some great ideas. I agree that we shouldn't be told (or shown by a "cyberpsychosis meter") that we crossed the thin, red line and turned psycho. It just happens at one point - if we cross the line, of course - and then after some time we "wake up" and start getting flashbacks...
And those flashbacks could be so powerful, as you said, watching all the terrible things you've done. Remember the "personal responsibility" theme from the CP2077 trailer song? It would totally make sense.
And another important thing that Whipblade mentioned - make it so it is impossible to go back to an old save. Make us suffer, make us regret and blame ourselves. Make us think next time we see a shiny cyberarm with arm-blades.
I like your idea Sard but I also know I would be chucking my computer out the window if I just found out that the last 10 or even 1 hour that I had played was just a big "ha ha screw you you just lost". Unless the game is recoverable from that point, which I do not advocate.
I think that cyberpsycho should be game over. Because of that there do need to be signs that it is setting in but nothing so obvious as screen distortion or loss of character control. Somehow, and I am not sure just how, cyberpsychosis needs to be insidious and addictive but not a path of no return. Unless of course you reach the end of the path.
I think that cyberpsycho should be game over. Because of that there do need to be signs that it is setting in but nothing so obvious as screen distortion or loss of character control. Somehow, and I am not sure just how, cyberpsychosis needs to be insidious and addictive but not a path of no return. Unless of course you reach the end of the path.
I can see where you are coming from.... at the very least, Cyberpsychosis should be a "Screen goes red, try to stay alive as long as you can, kill as many people as possible, while every cop in the world comes to blow yo0ur ass up... turn it into its own mini game... It;s still game over, but at least its fun.
Also I really do like the idea of cyberpsychosis opening up new, seemingly rational questlines. I posted as much before. The new quests, if done right, don't break immersion and stick with the idea of it being a psychosis. Also if the quest route is taken there need to be quite a few of them, all differently themed. I know that I intend to have multiple playthroughs and I don't want to get a new quest and say "Oops, that is the first Cyberpshcho quest, I better watch my humanity".
Whatever route is taken there will need to be hints to your lowered humanity, not road signs. But if you don't get the hint then you are done. If on the other hand you do turn back from the edge, I really do agree that the trauma that you caused others should be a real factor in the story of the game.
Whatever route is taken there will need to be hints to your lowered humanity, not road signs. But if you don't get the hint then you are done. If on the other hand you do turn back from the edge, I really do agree that the trauma that you caused others should be a real factor in the story of the game.
We-ell, Prod, there has to be an element of failure in tragedy.
But the trick isn't to frustrate you as a player, it's to make you connect with your choices. You got the cyber and you kept getting the cyber and you had the warning from the med-tech about the growing increase in the cases of Hauer's Identity Disassociation Syndrome, (or whatever they call cyberpsychosis in medschool by 2077) and now you're paying for those choices.
Ten hours might be a bit much. Two or four would perhaps be more reasonable. NOT as a punishment, but as a part of your gameplay experience, much as either of the alternate paths in Witcher 2 were.
Well-written, you would,as a player, be moved and humbled, as opposed to frustrated.
You could either reload before you had that cyberleg installed, OR you could play on, ( if you survived). Up to you. Perhaps they jack what's left of your cortex into the 'dance and you are offered the choice of Heavy Metal Therapy or a quiet burial.
Also, my head is now HUGE. HuUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE.
But the trick isn't to frustrate you as a player, it's to make you connect with your choices. You got the cyber and you kept getting the cyber and you had the warning from the med-tech about the growing increase in the cases of Hauer's Identity Disassociation Syndrome, (or whatever they call cyberpsychosis in medschool by 2077) and now you're paying for those choices.
Ten hours might be a bit much. Two or four would perhaps be more reasonable. NOT as a punishment, but as a part of your gameplay experience, much as either of the alternate paths in Witcher 2 were.
Well-written, you would,as a player, be moved and humbled, as opposed to frustrated.
You could either reload before you had that cyberleg installed, OR you could play on, ( if you survived). Up to you. Perhaps they jack what's left of your cortex into the 'dance and you are offered the choice of Heavy Metal Therapy or a quiet burial.
Also, my head is now HUGE. HuUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE.
Bah, why don't you be a peach and freshen up my mimosa, King Pie.
Not sure if you were referencing Butt Lord GT, and if you weren't you should find it and read it. Absolutely hilarious.
As to the rest, If you could play on after an episode that has the Psycho Squad take you then I might be for this, but this would have to be at the cost of most of your cyber, money and time. I still prefer game over.
Agreed. I can totally see something like this happening as part of CDPR's choice & consequences system. They made a bold move with branching paths of TW2 (like, really) so it would fit their style. Maybe not 10 hours as you said, but more to 1-2 - it's still a lot and still would make you think hard about re-loading the latest save.
If you survive the whole thing, get rid of the augments or whatever, it could be interesting to see how you face the repercussions of the therapy for the rest of the game. To see the player's journey from no-augments to uber-rigged killing machine, turning psycho and then having his "superpowers" ripped out from him could be an interesting theme.
I still prefer the game over outcome... but you make an interesting argument...
Maybe yours could serve as a "warning", do it again and they just kill you?
What we want to avoid is the idea that you can complete the game as a cyberpsycho... but as a way to just cut lose, it definitely has its merits...
Maybe even as a braindance mini-game...
I quite like your approach. Not bad.
As long as we get 'hints' were approaching the edge, through dialogue options and perhaps a handful of odd visions in reflective surfaces, I am more than happy to suddenly become a homocidal maniac. I had considered 'hallucinatory' gameplay, where everyone around us is suddenly a gun toting nut trying to kill us, or we get a 'flashback' like episode where we think we are reliving a traumatic memory. Everyone we kill here is a dead meatbag when, (or if,) we 'wake up'. And just to make sure we don't 'ignore' our episode, if we die in the halucination, we die in the game because our heart or mind give up.
Perhaps a 3 strike policy, so that if we only 'harm' a few civ's we get light treatment. But if we go all the way and start walking through the streets giving everyone a lead enema we get put down hard. So, depending on how 'nuts' we go, we could be offered therapy or a synth-pine box.
My overall 'vibe' though, is that Cyberpsychosis should be a kick-ass mini game with serious repercussions.