Cyberpunk 2077 2.0?

[RichieMcG]

If they get the bugs ironed out, they could just use the same city with a completely new story and characters that's more about the open-world and gangs instead of laser focused on 1 things like the current story. With a new main character and everything.

Definitely agree with you there. I really love the world they have created and I want to be able to interact with it more. There is a bounty of potential in this and I am sure they are well aware of it. I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do with it.
I played Cyberpunk as an RPG when it first came out (yes, I am old), a lot of my friends didn't like it, as it was still pretty crude when compared to the older more established games, but I always thought it had a lot of potential and deserved a lot more love than what it originally got (besides tech over magic every time for me). When they announced this game it was like a dream come true and I was impressed that they took it on. Looking forward to what the New Year will bring.

 

[Tracido]

A few months ago a lead story designer (whatever they are called) said that the decisions you make will have consequences. So, over years they pretended that there will be a kind of net of quests, based on your decisions. You can see it in a trailer, too. The one with the voodoo boys. Looks like a Mindmap/Workflow, if you get the picture.
A bonus for the replayabillity, also based on the lifepath. But this is not true. The only "decisons" you can choose are at the end of the game, based on the sidequests you made.
That's it.
And the only reason to replay the game is a) having other romance-options, although the relationships put no extra in the game b) that you can't reset your attributes just perks, as far as I know. So if you go deep-dive netrunner/tech like me in the first run, there is no chance becoming a bloody melee, without castrating yourself.

Maybe it is a view of quality. Having 30 optional Textoptions and 2 other endings (and 1 is the same), that I can play with my first V if I save clever is not enough. For me. They painted a other picture. And I'm sure they knew that "we" would take this as a non-linear storytelling.

It's not just quality, the majority of consumers don't care about anything but, their shiny object of the moment. Not intergrity, honesty, facts, or even reason, just lies and adults that can't even be communicated with on this front.

 

[NevaEilhart]

I don't want it to turn into GTA with some generic story missions around flavourless gang leaders who dynamically change each and every time.
I like the narrative focused story, I love the characters they made, I love V, I think those elements are very well done alltogether.

They just need to drop way more content to bring it back to what they were saying the game would offer in terms of flexibility and interactivity.

There are tons of ways to use all those great characters they made within the game. Right now, it just lacks meaningful content.

 

[Tracido]

I don't want it to turn into GTA with some generic story missions around flavourless gang leaders who dynamically change each and every time.
I like the narrative focused story, I love the characters they made, I love V, I think those elements are very well done alltogether.

They just need to drop way more content to bring it back to what they were saying the game would offer in terms of flexibility and interactivity.

There are tons of ways to use all those great characters they made within the game. Right now, it just lacks meaningful content.

Pssh, that's because they allow the fans to lie, and no one else to tell the truth. Heck i shared a game that has only violence, and some of these people are so blind they didn't even watch it to see that is also Adults Only, some levels of VIOLENCE..

Then they lied about all the features, and sold a broken unfinished product, and it's being covered up, so no one has to actually make a proper 2.0.

 

[Hexipoo]

I don't want it to turn into GTA with some generic story missions around flavourless gang leaders who dynamically change each and every time.
I like the narrative focused story, I love the characters they made, I love V, I think those elements are very well done alltogether.

They just need to drop way more content to bring it back to what they were saying the game would offer in terms of flexibility and interactivity.

There are tons of ways to use all those great characters they made within the game. Right now, it just lacks meaningful content.

The problem with a tight, linear story like we have is that it makes 0 sense in the context of the rest of the world. Think about it, you're given a literal deadline of few weeks, why would you go mess around with random gigs or personal relationships? If YOU had a few weeks to live, would you try to prevent that fate OR would you go diving with your girlfriend?

 

[NevaEilhart]

The problem with a tight, linear story like we have is that it makes 0 sense in the context of the rest of the world. Think about it, you're given a literal deadline of few weeks, why would you go mess around with random gigs or personal relationships? If YOU had a few weeks to live, would you try to prevent that fate OR would you go diving with your girlfriend?

That's a classic videogame issue with stories trying to give you a sense of urgency. Same with the Witcher 3, you were on the brink of a war you didn't see happening, you had this urgency about finding Ciri but could play Gwent for hours instead...

The open world is here just for you to take breaks from the main story, but it isn't here for you to live in, at least this isn't how CDPR have made their two open worlds (W3 & CP2077) until now.

Story comes first, open world is just here to provide for a beautiful background painting, expand a bit on story elements, and give you a better taste of what it means to be living in such a world by encountering some interesting side characters. It provides you with a bit more freedom in how you want to tackle the story (choosing the order of your quests, where to go first, etc).
But at the very core, for CDPR, and you see it in the Witcher 3 and CP2077, the story comes first and the world comes second. They never intended to make it a sandboxy thing where you play however you want with tons of dynamic stuff and have a side story you may or may not follow. This is a narrative driven experience first and foremost, they didn't lie about this and this is kind of their trademark. It's the same with The Witcher 3 (everyone's entitled to their own opinion though to say if it's a good or bad story driven experience).

I do feel though, and I might join you on that, that the random gigs and such side activities would have been better integrated if the game did a better job in opening slowly the city to us. Like this 6 months ellispe people complain about with Jackie ? I have the feeling this was meant to be the tutorial and to make you do pretty much all the gigs and NCPD calls in Watson.
Why did they cut it ? Maybe because some would have complained about being forced to do side jobs for a long time before the story starts kicking in (imagine having a quest like "complete 5 gigs before talking to Jackie" or "earn more streetcred before going to Misty" - no one would have liked that). Maybe it was something else entirely, I don't know.
Personally, I did clean all of Watson before taking on the Heist mission so, I was feeling pretty "connected" to the story. I guess that helped tremendously in feeling my V was already someone well established and kind of known around the city by the moment the title screen appeared.
But I can't help thinking that a "tutorial/prologue area" (such as White Orchard - it would have been Watson here) is lacking in CP2077. It would have helped managing the story pacing, which can feel really overwhelming and rushed if you focus on it.

And as a side note, I would have loved a better way of handing to you those gigs, rather than a point on your map and a phone call. The game lacks a sense of exploration. It would feel way more organic if you just walked through the streets and have one of those gigs/NCPD stuff randomly opening to you because you happened to be on that street at that particular hour of the day. Right now, it feels static.

 

[Hexipoo]

That's a classic videogame issue with stories trying to give you a sense of urgency. Same with the Witcher 3, you were on the brink of a war you didn't see happening, you had this urgency about finding Ciri but could play Gwent for hours instead...

The open world is here just for you to take breaks from the main story, but it isn't here for you to live in, at least this isn't how CDPR have made their open worlds (W3 & CP2077) until now.

Story comes first, open world is just here to expand a bit and give you a better taste of what it means to be living in such a world. But they never intended to make it a sandboxy thing where you play however you want and have a story you may or may not follow. This is a narrative driven experience first and foremost, they didn't lie about this and this is kind of their trademark. Same with The Witcher 3.

I do feel though, and I might join you on that, that the random gigs and such would have been better integrated if the game did a better job in opening slowly the city to us. Like this 6 months ellispe people complain about ? I have the feeling this was meant to be the tutorial and to make you do pretty much all the gigs and NCPD calls in Watson.
Why did they cut it ? Maybe because some would have complained about being forced to do side jobs for a long time (imagine having a quest : complete 5 gigs before talking to Jackie - no one would have liked that). Maybe it was something else entirely, I don't know. Personally, I did clean all of Watson before taking on the Heist mission so, I was feeling pretty "connected" to the story. But I can't help thinking that "prologue area" (such as White Orchard) is lacking in CP2077. It would have helped managing the story pacing, which can feel really overwhelming and rushed if you focus on it.

I never got why they insist on a sense of urgency when games like Fallout 2 did it perfectly so, SO long ago. You are given a goal but never does the game pretend like you're in a hurry. You could EASILY fix it as well without changing much.

I had the same criticism about W3. What does it matter how good the story is if it falls down on it's face on a fundamental level like this?

 

[lelxrv]

Or Fallout 1 did urgency relevant as you have limited time to achieve things. It makes you push forward, but because there's no main or side narratives, you're crafting your adventure yourself. Instead of scripts. I'm not attacking CDPR, because most of the time I love their narratives, but this sense of urgency is rather poorly integrated into gameplay.

 

[Tracido]

Or Fallout 1 did urgency relevant as you have limited time to achieve things. It makes you push forward, but because there's no main or side narratives, you're crafting your adventure yourself.

Yeah, but that was a very different type of game, where even children were able to earn you the child killer perk..

The timing however, reminds me of Deadly Premonition, where he'd smoke to pass time for meetings with NPC's.

I understand having it there, but i still think timing should be optional, especially in an open world, and if not, at least let that world open up end game..

 

[Hexipoo]

Or Fallout 1 did urgency relevant as you have limited time to achieve things. It makes you push forward, but because there's no main or side narratives, you're crafting your adventure yourself. Instead of scripts. I'm not attacking CDPR, because most of the time I love their narratives, but this sense of urgency is rather poorly integrated into gameplay.

That limited time was patched out soon after launch PRECISELY because it undermined the point of the game. Buuut back then patching was a bit more complicated due to lack of internet so a lot of people never got the patch.

 

[NevaEilhart]

Yeah, but that was a very different type of game, where even children were able to earn you the child killer perk..

The timing however, reminds me of Deadly Premonition, where he'd smoke to pass time for meetings with NPC's.

I understand having it there, but i still think timing should be optional, especially in an open world, and if not, at least let that world open up end game..

That's why people bashed the Witcher 3 given how the Witcher 1 and 2, which weren't open world, did a better job in their opinion in terms of story pacing and such.
That's why story driven action adventure games are often in that sweet spot of earning unanimous praise and are good to play : because they're on a smaller scale and the writers can control what the player will do and what he won't. The Last of Us, God of War, even Mass Effect. Not being open world allows you, as a writer, to build up tension knowing that your player won't be fooling around for hours doing random stuff.
That's another debate alltogether though. I just wanted to say, the problem with that sense of urgency isn't something new, and it was the same problem in The Witcher 3. Which is why to me, the Witcher 3 expansions are far better in terms of story and pacing. You have way smaller arears to explore so it feels more organic. They found that sweet spot in my opinion in Blood & Wine. A solid story with a good map to provide you with activities, but not an overarching "end of the world" kind of plot with miles and miles of unrelated map activities to do alongside.

 

[maxzorazon]

yes

Great post!

I assume that they went for fully-explored-gig and ncpd-third-level-job markers because in the information age everything is accessible. With a combination of rushed development.
But no.
I would make sense to have street names on the map, but discover the gigs, ncpd and all other activities much slower.
They did it better in W3.

 

[Tracido]

That's why people bashed the Witcher 3 given how the Witcher 1 and 2, which weren't open world, did a better job in their opinion in terms of story pacing and such.
That's why story driven action adventure games are often in that sweet spot of earning unanimous praise and are good to play : because they're on a smaller scale and the writers can control what the player will do and what he won't. The Last of Us, God of War, even Mass Effect. Not being open world allows you, as a writer, to build up tension knowing that your player won't be fooling around for hours doing random stuff.
That's another debate alltogether though. I just wanted to say, the problem with that sense of urgency isn't something new, and it was the same problem in The Witcher 3. Which is why to me, the Witcher 3 expansions are far better in terms of story and pacing. You have way smaller arears to explore so it feels more organic. They found that sweet spot in my opinion in Blood & Wine. A solid story with a good map to provide you with activities, but not an overarching "end of the world" kind of plot with miles and miles of unrelated map activities to do alongside.

Interesting. I watched one reviewer who just hated the controls, and the gameplay, but loved the story.

Well, the team was clearly smaller during Witcher 1 and 2. It clearly allowed more developmental control.

Mass Effect 1 & 3 still had planet exploration where I'd even seen alien life, that was many open worlds, but tiny areas of them.

This is different, a lot is packed into a fairly sized megacity area but it's like a bush, and it's clear sections of this bush aren't finished.. Where's the activities, why are all the shopkeepers repeating dialog of cviies, and where is the scripting for events explained in that 48 min demo, just for starters..

 

[lelxrv]

That limited time was patched out soon after launch PRECISELY because it undermined the point of the game. Buuut back then patching was a bit more complicated due to lack of internet so a lot of people never got the patch.

Is it patch 1.1?

I don't think it undermined anything. It made the world a living thing. And it was well integrated both into the setting and game design.

 

[sleazy89]

Game is doomed. You can't change the story and make it branching as much as it was promised, that would require tons of work and let's not forget about the dubbing needed. Making it so gangs matter, choices really matter, etc. would take other years and sincererly I really lost the interest in this game, but that's just about me.
Mechanics also. This was supposed to be an RPG, instead we got a looter-shooter with random leveled drops, armoured clothes (instead of it being in player stats), Borderlands-like weapons...
IDK, imho is domeed, better wait for a sequel (hoping the design will be thought better)

 

[Kieran_Grosvenor]

What do you define as a fix? Bug fix? Adding something like cop AI is rather monumental and hardly just a fix. It becomes a feature.

No Man's Sky is a different beast and suits more for continuous support, but let's say schedule like this:
1) Spring 2021 - general bug fixes and free DLC.
2) Summer 2021 - first expansion.
3) Winter 21-22 - second expansion.
4) Second half of 22 - major overhaul of the game with many new features. Something they worked on since beginning of 21.

Well there is a wanted system in the game its just half baked, don't add it if you only half implement the feature... Its just unprofessional

 

[Dr_Sinister420]

Gosh I guess you've never heard of Subverse, an Adults Only RPG

. Guess you've never heard of Lust From Beyond, which is Adults Only horror

. Also, guess you've never heard of Succubus, Adults Only action adventure, where you can even go to a hub to choose areas to hunt in..

If they can do it, CDPR can make this thing plenty better and bigger.

Those games are designed as smut, Cyberpunk not so much. Maybe if they titled it Cybervag?

 

[NevaEilhart]

This is different, a lot is packed into a fairly sized megacity area but it's like a bush, and it's clear sections of this bush aren't finished.. Where's the activities, why are all the shopkeepers repeating dialog of cviies, and where is the scripting for events explained in that 48 min demo, just for starters..

That's because in the case of CP2077, the open world is half baked. Too much time spent designing the city, the new assets for 1st person (they built the game from scratch and couldn't use anything from the Witcher, given it's another setting, a new IP, and in 1st person).

Game is doomed. You can't change the story and make it branching as much as it was promised, that would require tons of work and let's not forget about the dubbing needed.

Not sure it is doomed, because the assets made for it are pretty solid in the end (talking about animations / designs / city lay out / sounds / soundtrack...). For a first game in what is probably meant to be a franchise of several games, it has good elements. The set of characters made for the game are great. They just have to use all of those.

 

[Tracido]

Those games are designed as smut, Cyberpunk not so much. Maybe if they titled it Cybervag?

No, actually, they aren't, there's a game with each beyond distraction that you can't handle.

Succubus doesn't even have a single bit of sex. She does rip this idiot apart who lusts after her, though..

 

[Dr_Sinister420]

No, actually, they aren't, there's a game with each beyond distraction that you can't handle.

Succubus doesn't even have a single bit of sex. She does rip this idiot apart who lusts after her, though..

When you buy a game that's all about tits and ass, you're not buying for the game buddy.