Cyberpunk 2077 REVIEWS - links & discussion

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Same, he's made some good videos in the past and he's obviously interested in the genre. Which makes this false premise even more baffling.

I think it's the bandwagon effect, it seems like it's becoming increasingly harder to have an original opinion and not be judged for it, especially on social media.

Every statement is being weaponized and has the potential to be used against you, reason why, it seems to me, the major review publications and/or authors following a certain narrative need to stick to it and not challenge it.

Which is causing all form of discourse to feel shallow, cold and disconnected from what we used to call the norm, it's all orchestrated rather than spontaneous like it should be.

Perhaps it's because these individuals made a living creating half assed so called essays on youtube that require much less creative effort than to make it in the industry at large, all you have to do is to follow the social narrative and parrot the same bullet points to become productive, such is the society today it seems.
 
I get the points all of you made regarding Noah's review. But as his title states, he asks: What kind of game did CP 2077 turn out to be? – and that's what he discusses:
It is not a political game, although it tries to be. It is not a RPG, although it tries to be. It is not a crime simulator, although it tries to be. It's the kind of game that tries too much and therefore fails a little bit at everything.

Whether it's based on Pondsmith's work is not relevant to his point. Just as RDR2 tries to be a Western game and makes it, CP 2077 tries to be a Cyberpunk game and doesn't make it...
 

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What kind of game did CP 2077 turn out to be? – and that's what he discusses:
It is not a political game, although it tries to be. It is not a RPG, although it tries to be. It is not a crime simulator, although it tries to be. It's the kind of game that tries too much and therefore fails a little bit at everything.
Simple:
It's a narrative-driven action RPG that mixes TW3-style open world with Deus Ex-ish gameplay. It is political in sense that portrays life in the world where private corporations have become more powerful than governments and how plutocracy affects everyone from ordinary people to mercs, rockstars, media, police and candidate for mayor.
Whether it's based on Pondsmith's work is not relevant to his point. Just as RDR2 tries to be a Western game and makes it, CP 2077 tries to be a Cyberpunk game and doesn't make it...
But he made it relevant by voicing complaints about the setting, then mentioning Gibson and Neuromancer more than dozen times without acknowledging the fact that CP2077 is based on Mike's Cyberpunk 2020. It's like having problems how the elves or dwarves are depicted in The Witcher games and quoting Tolkien to prove your point.
 
I get the points all of you made regarding Noah's review. But as his title states, he asks: What kind of game did CP 2077 turn out to be? – and that's what he discusses:
It is not a political game, although it tries to be. It is not a RPG, although it tries to be. It is not a crime simulator, although it tries to be. It's the kind of game that tries too much and therefore fails a little bit at everything.

Whether it's based on Pondsmith's work is not relevant to his point. Just as RDR2 tries to be a Western game and makes it, CP 2077 tries to be a Cyberpunk game and doesn't make it...

Oh I fully understand his points, but I can't take them seriously.

This is as much of an RPG as Mass Effect, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, Deus Ex or The Witcher 3.

It has nothing in common with RDR2 or GTA which again he insists on comparing it to, besides being set in an open world and having NPC's roaming the open world.

This is not a sandbox game and to be treated as such is like comparing Spider-Man to The Witcher 3.

He literally did everything he could to make a ridiculous character that acts erratically and then continues on to prove his point that the character is shallow and not enough to carry the narrative - ultimately making fun of the relationship with Panam because, as depicted, his character is purely satiric and ruined his immersion.

Also the points about gameplay, I find the shooting satisfying and the map traversal fun and open with a lot of verticality, so his point about the game not really having anything going for it in terms of gameplay is quite moot.

The melee combat is similar to Dying Light and the shooting and movement to Apex Legends, what's a major problem with this is the AI reactivity, the NPC melee animations that home in on the hits and the general user input problems like tying key binds together to do multiple tasks (like double tapping directions or double tapping crouch to dodge, wtf?!).

I suspect that all of that can be refined, it's CDPR's first tackle in the FPS department, I think they've done a decent job.

Also the political themes are there in the background waiting to be discovered, that was the whole point, the erosion of societal norms and abuse of an individual's freedoms, the oversexualized and crude marketing, the corrupt system that revolves around control and influence and the corrupt police that is at the whims of the politicians and gang members - all of that covered by a veneer of mundaneness that creates a faux superficiality to it.

The game touches many subjects yet it doesn't try to become any of them, each story arc has a narrative trying to draw attention towards our loss of critical thinking and the manipulative media, loss of identity and humanity, increasing need of friendships and belonging, revenge and redemption etc.

It, indeed, could have been more fleshed out in any of those aspects but to claim that they're superficial or without any meaning is fallacious and clearly shows that not much thought went into analyzing any of it.

He even mentions that there's no choice or consequence other than the rooftop decision which is completely false and I expected a lot more from someone like him who bases his essays on his ability to analyze a subject matter concretely and thoroughly.

Like I've mentioned before, the fact that he completely misses the point of Cyberpunk 2077 being based on Cyberpunk 2020 lore created by and in collaboration with Mike Pondsmith is the very basic form of research and analysis that is completely missing from this and he continues on a tangent where he insists that Cyberpunk takes inspiration from the works it so blatantly ''rips off'', when it, instead, actually pays homage to them in the spirit of the Table Top Game which does the same thing.

Cyberpunk 2020, RED and 2077 lore in general is a swan song for the genre dressed up in an outrageous fashion, sporting a bombastic ego with dark undertones that explores the morals of a decaying society.

He touches on none of that but instead, him thinking it's an original work, goes on to criticize CDPR's blatant plagiarism of the themes presented in the media he must have consumed instead of seeing the bigger picture and realizing what's actually in front of him.

The fact that we have a thread close to 18.000 posts and spanning nearly 1000 pages discussing the themes and the endings is a clear indicator that there is a lot of substance to be digested in Cyberpunk 2077, there's nuance and he seemingly cannot perceive any deeper than the first couple of layers that obfuscate the core of the themes presented - as such coming to a false conclusion that depicts the lack of research on his part.

Talking for an hour and a half using big words and long phrases is all well and good as long as the core of the subject matter you're presenting is thoroughly analyzed from multiple angles and try your best to form an unbiased opinion, as he used to present his work as a formal essay and an analysis rather than a personal essay and a criticism - the latter of which is fine as long as it's constructive and in good faith.

It simply comes off as crude (especially the later part where he starts yelling nonsensical stuff in the microphone) and uninspired or lacking any sense of originality in the wake of the shitstorm that followed Cyberpunk 2077's launch.

I simply expected a lot more from Noah, that is all, I don't want him to agree with me, I want him to cover and analyze what's clearly there while he's pretending that it's missing.

This is what I expected from him:



 
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I'm partially tired of seeing many people comparing CP2077 with GTA or RDR2. ---These youtubers are either trying to look dumb or played the game expecting GTA in the future.

Rockstar is clearly on another level when we talk about making seamless open-world games with tons of details, physics, IA, etc. In part, I think it's good to have just confirmed that CDPR is nowhere near the level of Rockstar yet when it comes to making games. Nowhere near as so many people were so eagerly assuming prior the release of CP2077; now, people just woke up after all the mess we know and realized how ridiculous those claims were, specially because CDPR is still, so far, really on early the stages so to come out and prove anything near the Rockstar's curriculum. CDPR is just starting in this industry, and they are just learning; meanwhile Rockstar has decades of experience within the industry.

Now, after having said that, CP2077 is nothing like GTA and it doesn't even try to be that sort of open world experience. CP2077, as some has said above, is a RPG story-driven game where city is just there as a traversal method and for inmersion purpose. Now the more you know about the lore and the world, the more you are able to identify all the eater eggs scattered around the city, to role-play with your V choosing the adequate missions for him/her (devoted to your V's lifepath and builds), choosing dialogues and traversing the city.

CP2077 doesn't work well when you play it as a completitionist. The game doesn't limit you in that regard cause it gives the player the means to play the way you want it, by allowing you to open up multiple branches at once (which main cons is that it gives the player a sense of lacking consequences); but the game is clearly made so you play it in linearity form according to how you want your V within the game limits (lifepaths, builds, and missions), so once you've finished with one of the endings, you start again another playthrough with a different V's approach, taking other paths through missions and choosing different dialogues & styles. Even CDPR has implied multiple times the game is played like this, not as a completitionist.

There're details in CP2077 that leave a lot to be desire, some are even current standard for many open-world games (mostly concerning IA), however all those little details that so many people love to bring up so to compare, such as water not having reaction to bullets, tyres not flattening, car damages & broken windows not having as good physics, bodies not floating in the water, etc, etc, etc are 99.99% irrelevant. The other 0.01% is just for making things more believable--- in a fictional videogame world, and it may add to the inmersion for some players; but that doesn't affect the gameplay loop at all.
 
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"witcher's combat sucks bro, why don't you play a real game like darksouls" all over again and multiplied by ten, wonder why not more people who just wanted a cozy place to discuss cyberpunk go on rockstar or square forums to tell the fans of those companies their game sucks ....
 
Why so much anger with an excellent game? It has some bugs and what? that is the reason for so much hatred, bugs that can be repaired having so much good content. such a vast city with so many things to do. It's amazing how many tryhard say anything to give the game a bad perspective when in fact many people are enjoying it.

they have some solid points actually but let's wait until the game is improved
 
Adding another painstakingly created review and analysis of everything surrounding and included in Cyberpunk 2077.

I may not completely agree with everything, I can't help but admire the effort and the eloquence presented in this, it's impressive to say the least, and touches upon the major aspects presented in the game and it's hype leading up to the release.

It's balanced and well thought out, regards to the creator.

 
This is what I expected from him:




Funny, two of those actually convinced me to give the game a try at this point and not in a year on a Steam Sale. I saw Noah's review too but got not much out of it ( I like a lot of his stuff, but sometimes like with VtmB I'm totally contrary to him too). Sphere Hunter's showed me there's probably more than enough immersion in it for me, despite all the bugs every other reviewer was going on about, and Nerverknowbest's was probably the one after which I said "ok, I'll see for myself". No regrets really.

[...]
 
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CP2077 doesn't work well when you play it as a completitionist. The game doesn't limit you in that regard cause it gives the player the means to play the way you want it, by allowing you to open up multiple branches at once (which main cons is that it gives the player a sense of lacking consequences); but the game is clearly made so you play it in linearity form according to how you want your V within the game limits (lifepaths, builds, and missions), so once you've finished with one of the endings, you start again another playthrough with a different V's approach, taking other paths through missions and choosing different dialogues & styles. Even CDPR has implied multiple times the game is played like this, not as a completitionist.
LONG POST INCOMING:

In theory, this is great RPG design and this was something I noted during my one, and only, play through of The Witcher 3. You are encouraged to spec into specific abilities and typically only one set of witcher gear suits the build of your Geralt. Certain quests are level capped in early areas so that you come back to them after you level up. Some quests are below your level cap and pay out less than if it were slightly above or at your level. The main quest lines, and some side quests, have specific consequences from the outcomes of your decisions. This all makes sense, it encourages replay value and is an excellent way to make the primary gameplay loop feel rewarding while the narrative remains fresh and engaging on new play through.

So what's with my preamble?
There're details in CP2077 that leave a lot to be desire, some are even current standard for many open-world games (mostly concerning IA), however all those little details that so many people love to bring up so to compare, such as water not having reaction to bullets, tyres not flattening, car damages & broken windows not having as good physics, bodies not floating in the water, etc, etc, etc are 99.99% irrelevant. The other 0.01% is just for making things more believable--- in a fictional videogame world, and it may add to the immersion for some players; but that doesn't affect the gameplay loop at all.
That 0.01% will prevent CP2077 from becoming a groundbreaking RPG. Unlike the Witcher 3, the main quest and side quests lack any consequence and it is one of the most disappointing parts of the game to me. All the other elements from the Witcher 3 are there: ability specialization, level capped quests, equipment that suits your build that you can continually upgrade or swap out, a life paths system that (sort of) encourages different runs (barely). Meaningful interaction that has actual consequence on the game world and your relationships with different characters? Not really.

For example, there's a gig that Padre gives you at some abandoned bus depot in Heywood about some NCPD officer wanting justice for another officer's murder and the suspect is Jose Luis, a Valentino. He was arrested but NCPD dropped the case and Padre suspects Luis is involved in something deep for that to happen. If you do some investigation you find out Arasaka is trying to frame Militech by having some Valentinos look and act the part as Militech security and attack an Arasaka facility. Johnny and Padre both have the same conclusion and treat it with the same gravitas: Arasaka is trying to spark another corporate war. However, Padre tells you to forget about it and Johnny is indifferent.

Why does that grind my gears? Hopefully you remember Meredith Stout, and the favor you can do for her when retrieving the Flathead. I did that favor for her and thought that the consequences of my actions was cool. Made my V feel like its own V. After I completed that job, I was amused to not so long after discover you could send her a message and then, hook up with her.

Here's the catch: You never interact or cross paths with her again. She introduces the grandiosity and cut throat nature of a corpo even if you never choose the life path of one and her send off is an awkward video game sex scene. Better yet, numerous quests involve screwing over Militech but bending over backwards for Arasaka. Wouldn't Stout like to know a thing or two? Wouldn't it have been cool if you called her and V gets a taste of corpo espionage? If Arasaka was so invested in making sure no one caught wind of this, are there no consequences to V essentially blowing the lid off their gig, even if it never comes to fruition?

Where is the consequence of your actions? There were never actual consequences, just formalities. "Good job V, closing the gig." Great.

tl;dr There is no such thing as consequence for your actions or words and it undermines the "role" in a literal roleplaying game and this will undermine CP2077 at every turn.


edit: Better yet, to add to that last paragraph, wouldn't V have a lot of bargaining power with Arasaka if V threatened to talk to Meredith Stout? There are so many, I hate to say it, plot holes in a single quest that it gives me a headache to think why it was in the game in the first place.
 
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Metacritic only gave Cyberpunk 2077 a 91/100 and that's only the PC version! Imagine the scores for the ancient PS4 and Xbox One versions that have an overwhelmingly amount of bugs and they will certainly score below a 90 on Metacritic. CDPR were aiming for a 90+ game on Metacritic but the game is barely scoring that. I was hoping that Cyberpunk 2077 would tie Red Dead Redemption 2 with a 97/100 Metacritic score but I guess not. Even The Last of Us 2 got a better Metacritic score and it had a bad story! Also, the story is surprisingly very short and the IGN reviewer only finished the game in 20 hours! CDPR said that the story is only slightly shorter than the Witcher 3 but that's not the case, after all which I had a very bad feeling about anyways. I'm going to try the game for myself on December 10th and see how it plays out. Maybe I'll end up liking it a lot more than these salty reviewers. GameSpot gave the game only 7/10! What kind of ambitious game is this? OUCH!!! I'm so sad and shocked at the same time! I was expecting this game to be the best game to come out to date even topping all the Grand Theft Auto games!
Yes, I am too disappointment and yep it's immeasurable. Anything that is below 95 is just like a garbage. I'll go play RDR2, instead.
 
I think it's the bandwagon effect, it seems like it's becoming increasingly harder to have an original opinion and not be judged for it, especially on social media.

Every statement is being weaponized and has the potential to be used against you, reason why, it seems to me, the major review publications and/or authors following a certain narrative need to stick to it and not challenge it.

Which is causing all form of discourse to feel shallow, cold and disconnected from what we used to call the norm, it's all orchestrated rather than spontaneous like it should be.

Perhaps it's because these individuals made a living creating half assed so called essays on youtube that require much less creative effort than to make it in the industry at large, all you have to do is to follow the social narrative and parrot the same bullet points to become productive, such is the society today it seems.
Yep, it's getting scary quite honestly
 
Hi :D.

Yeah it is, having your own voice and opinion nowadays is like treading a minefield.

I personally try not to care what other people think and try to form my own opinion as best as possible, which is quite the task at the moment...
Me too. But it's great to not be on a position liable to be cancelled also.
Hi'a exxxed
 
Where is the consequence of your actions? There were never actual consequences, just formalities. "Good job V, closing the gig." Great.

tl;dr There is no such thing as consequence for your actions or words and it undermines the "role" in a literal roleplaying game and this will undermine CP2077 at every turn.


edit: Better yet, to add to that last paragraph, wouldn't V have a lot of bargaining power with Arasaka if V threatened to talk to Meredith Stout? There are so many, I hate to say it, plot holes in a single quest that it gives me a headache to think why it was in the game in the first place.
Gotta play devil's advocate on this one! A bunch of good points. When you present it like that, it explains why so many don't regard it as an RPG. Hmm! At least, not in the traditional/conventional sense of an RPG . . . I had to think on his . . . The consequences and influence on and of contacts actually bothered me too. It never took away from what I enjoy about the game, but it does make sense of why so many found the game lacking.

I think it boils down to a few technical problems and limitations. For instance, the 3 life paths. Honestly, it could have been 3 different characters, but the fact that the stories basically converge with semantic differences between the paths can be disheartening. Undeniable plot holes! Yeah, that's crazy! I guess the apologetic argument will always be that CDPR was introducing CP2020 to a new audience and were trying to cushion-push people in. This falls back to the argument that the game was released as a beta that the purchasers get to influence the future direction of. Something like a corporate version of a Kickstarter campaign.

For instance, having Saburo's dog tags never made a difference in the progression of the story. A large portion of the story could have taken a different direction if simply presenting them as evidence could have been done. Like, "Hey Oda, these are Saburo's dog tags and his data device, I saw him get killed, I klept this trying to escape". That isn't a feature of the game and probably would kill a bunch of arguments that people have about the narrative flow of the game.

I've said it before. The game REALLY REALLY needs better closures for a lot of situations and scenarios. Simply put, they didn't flow chart the scenarios, they wrapped scenarios around the decided story. Something that CDPR had the luxury of not dealing with in the Witcher series.

Another good point is about how Militech was the apparent enemy throughout the whole game. Arasaka kinda got a free pass to be evil and benevolent with impunity. Kang Tao was ephemeral. If you guys writing stuff here were the writers for the Streamers, there would be a lot better resolution about what people are actually bitching about LMFAO!!!!!!!
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Here's the catch: You never interact or cross paths with her again. She introduces the grandiosity and cut throat nature of a corpo even if you never choose the life path of one and her send off is an awkward video game sex scene. Better yet, numerous quests involve screwing over Militech but bending over backwards for Arasaka. Wouldn't Stout like to know a thing or two? Wouldn't it have been cool if you called her and V gets a taste of corpo espionage? If Arasaka was so invested in making sure no one caught wind of this, are there no consequences to V essentially blowing the lid off their gig, even if it never comes to fruition?
Ironically, that isn't the only war setup in the game. Like the Claws and 6th Street. You guys have really dug deep into the main story! Yeah. But to what you mention regarding the failed attempt for the Valentinos to do the attack, They're really big corporations. Also, there were a lot of other things going on in the world simultaneously, even from a narrative perspective (looking at the mechanics of all the players in that world) mishaps and doublecrosses happen a lot. The game is filled with tales (shards) of failed missions. A failed Valentino attack between multinational conglomerates wouldn't have as much effect as actually being successful. For me, it was more irksome that the female that was on the phone directing the hit was never identified or resolved in any tangible way.
 
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Where is the consequence of your actions? There were never actual consequences, just formalities. "Good job V, closing the gig." Great.

Exactly. In CP2077, nothing outside the main story really connects to any bigger picture or a lasting effect. And the main story is quite short. (Not to mention terrible in total due to its extreme downer nature.)

I also severely disliked that V has barely any interaction with corps other than Arasaka. And by interaction I mean doing work for them. Meredith gig is basically the only case if Im not mistaken.
 
I also severely disliked that V has barely any interaction with corps other than Arasaka. And by interaction I mean doing work for them. Meredith gig is basically the only case if Im not mistaken.
I think you're right! I can't remember anything else that V did in their favor either. Arasaka was the Darling and Villain in the story. The other major factions were introduced, but of all three featured mega-corps, Militech was the general enemy, and Kang Tao was just in the story to kinda justify their huge building in City Center LOL!
 
Kang Tao was just in the story to kinda justify their huge building in City Center
Hellman AV during "Life During Wartime" (and if I remember few small events like assault in progress).
And generally, V work for Fixers. So not for the villains, i.e Corpo or gangs (or indirectly through the fixers).
 
Hellman AV during "Life During Wartime" (and if I remember few small events like assault in progress).
And generally, V work for Fixers. So not for the villains, i.e Corpo or gangs (or indirectly through the fixers).
Honestly, my mind went to three different scenarios as it applies to Kang Tao (That. The mission near the Arasaka Boat, and the one in the Glen). 4 if you count one of the other downed AVs in the game but that may have been Arasaka (Northside right outside of Kabuki). But, my point wasn't really about Hellman and the Aldecados. My point was that they were only models in missions that didn't make them really as auspicious as Militech was, as far as being in the position of villain in the game.
 
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