Dues Ex didn't had broken combat, broken leveling system, poor level design, broken crafting system, broken stealth etc...
I support the team fixing it, but I cannot excuse the state it's in right now..
So OP want to compare totally unrelated games, fair enough. Using tthe same logic i can also said that cyberpunk have better history than tetris.
I love DE with it also have a lot of flaws and broken mechanics at launch. Most of them unresolved until the release of directors cut
No it didn't, it had 4 years of back burner pre-planning concentrating on plot outline and getting the look and feel of the setting and 4 years of active development after Blood and Wine.
Nowhere, Cyberpunk 2077 is entirely analoguous to GTA 3 or Mafia 1 as a first foray into the cars and guns 3D open world setting, with a different focus. The focus being solid Deus Ex-like cyberpunk stealth shooter with innovative first person interaction engine.
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Which one? Combat in the original was not all that. While leveling in the sequels was barely there by comparison. None of them had crafting and stealth is largely analoguous.
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The combat mechanics in CP2077 are a joke, the combat is worse than the driving it has no challenge what so ever both due to the damage output of the player and the door knob level of intelligence of the enemies.
The game was sold at first as an open world RPG, then as an open world action adventure game, it fails at the open world part, it fails miserably at the RPG elements and it fails at the combat elements.
The only thing that somewhat works is the story and writing.
I think it's pretty obvious they put a lot of focus on the RPG aspects, story, characters, dialogue, even (some parts of ) world building, The voice acting and relationships are stellar. And even if you'd like more it's quality over quantity. The fact that they ALSO made it open world in a modern setting making some mechanics reminiscent to GTA and the likes is besides to point. Yes they aimed to broaden the audience, from nerdy RPG to something more accessible, because money. But you could also view it like they've created a rich world to build on and to create even more interesting stories. And in time, make it a bit more fleshed out so to say when it comes to the action part. The GTA trollers who just want to mess around aren't the main target group I think that's pretty clear.
So after thread upon thread of whining about percieved bullet sponginess of the enemies. Now the community wants the enemies to be more bullet spongy.
As for the enemy AI, it's not a lot dumber than in any other game really. It's just that Night City's topography allows for more ways to exploit the weaknessess of the AI.
I would like to see a game that succeds by the current position of the goalposts.
Bullet sponginess has nothing to do with it, it's fine to have enemies that are bullet sponges if you want to brute force them and have other ways of dealing with them more quickly e.g. breach to disable their cyberware, burn them to oblate their armor plating and then kill them quickly with a gun, weak spots etc.
The game has no mechanics that enable interesting combat.
You don't need to exploit the topography the AI is dumb as fuck even when you are going straight at it.
No one is witching the goal posts, CDPR changed the definition of the game from an RPG to an Action Adventure game just before launch likely to avoid reviewers pointing out that the RPG elements are essentially non existent.
It fails as an open world game, it fails as an action game.
The game literally has most of those features. Possibly without the ablative armour. And it's quite clear that CDPR reacted to earlier complaint threads about bullet sponginess on these damn forums.
People wanted short time-to-kill and got short time-to-kill.
What game have you been playing? Once the AI knows where you are, they know where you are and react accordingly. With what is pretty much standard smartness of video game AI.
The RPG mechanics are entirely on par with Witcher 3. But do illuminate, which game succeeds by your definition?
Cyberpunk 2077 have early action combat, V is a mercenary, so have a larger variety of weapons to use.
You can engage combat since the beggining, but enemy healths are similar to what you have in Shooter games (4 or 5 shots to kill).
Depending on what upgrades you do, you'll end up one shooting everything (but I won't consider this, because it's clearly broken).
The game is clearly action oriented. Stealth is completely optional, even without stealth build you can handle yourself pretty well.
Deus Ex punish the player that engage combat early on, in the open field, among enemies.
The variety of weapons is more limited. Jensen is a private investigator, he have some upgrades, but you can't just go foward towards multiple enemies, otherwise others will kill you easily.
Stealth is mandatory without combat upgrades. Cover system is clunkier and combat isn't that fluid (can't be compared with other shooter games) because despite combat being possible, it's not action oriented.
Deus Ex is not open world. Don't have cars.
The common elements between these games are the upgrades, that can be similar, but plays very different, and the aesthetics, and that's it.
They play different, have different things going on, Deus Ex map is limited. Doesn't gives the player too much areas to explore. Never promissed that.
You play as Jensen, period. Square never promissed anything different from that.
For me, Deus Ex - Human Revolution and Mankind Divided are more a focused corporate espionage game.
For me they are completely different games in terms of gameplay and feeling.
You can engage combat since the beggining, but enemy healths are similar to what you have in Shooter games (4 or 5 shots to kill).
Depending on what upgrades you do, you'll end up one shooting everything (but I won't consider this, because it's clearly broken).
The game is clearly action oriented. Stealth is completely optional, even without stealth build you can handle yourself pretty well.
Deus Ex punish the player that engage combat early on, in the open field, among enemies.
The variety of weapons is more limited. Jensen is a private investigator, he have some upgrades, but you can't just go foward towards multiple enemies, otherwise others will kill you easily.
Stealth is mandatory without combat upgrades. Cover system is clunkier and combat isn't that fluid (can't be compared with other shooter games) because despite combat being possible, it's not action oriented.
Deus Ex is not open world. Don't have cars.
The common elements between these games are the upgrades, that can be similar, but plays very different, and the aesthetics, and that's it.
They play different, have different things going on, Deus Ex map is limited. Doesn't gives the player too much areas to explore. Never promissed that.
You play as Jensen, period. Square never promissed anything different from that.
For me, Deus Ex - Human Revolution and Mankind Divided are more a focused corporate espionage game.
For me they are completely different games in terms of gameplay and feeling.
Some of us didn't buy Cyberpunk 2077 because it's the next flavor of game. I personally bought it because I loved the Cyberpunk 2020 pen and paper game and was excited to see Night City come to life which CDPR didn't disappoint in that area
[sarcasm]What, you don't like it when difficulty is solely about how many zeros are in the end of an enemy's HP?[/sarcasm]
It's also funny, aren't there also people who want OHK headshots?
For me, I wanted cyberpunk as a genre to become mainstream. Before this, Deus Ex was pretty much the biggest video game franchise in the genre and it wasn't even close. There's the excellent Shadowrun games by Harebrained Studios, but those are very much not mainstream titles. That's why I want this game to be an eventual success. Because I don't just want this. I want a proper Ghost In The Shell game, not that arena shooter thing a few years back! AAA Shadowrun! A Blade Runner game! Or better yet even, a unique take on the genre altogether, it's own IP.
CDPR seem to be committed to making this game, if not the Molyneux-level hyped game that was promised, but something that would live up to it's potential. There is a good framework here, and a great story. Just needs the help of a good ripperdoc... I mean dev team.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not happy with the way they bastardized the core Cyberpunk pen and paper game and made it into their own version. If they had actually done any research on the games rules, they could have easily adapted a lot of it into the video game but instead, chose a looter shooter route with basic rpg elements tacked on but I'm not going to make some mouth breathing rant about it. I like the game for what it does have and I'm excited to see where they take it.
Oh, no arguments here. I'm actually not familiar with the TT (though I wouldn't mind getting into it one day, I loved my experience with the Shadowrun TTRPG). And yeah, the game's not what was hyped but what it is is alright.
And at least it's not an arena shooter like the GITS one, or Shadowrun Xbox....
I found the core rulebook while browsing a hobby store back in '92 when I was 14 while on vacation in the States and immediately fell in love with it. It was the first tabletop game that I've played that added realism to the combat. No hit points. One well placed shot could end you. You didn't level up but gained reputation which could be good or bad. Armour weighed you down. All sorts of good stuff involved that didn't even make it into this game. It has the name and the city but that is pretty much where the similarities end
Well let's see.. Watch dogs had 1000's of people making it as did GTA.. Maybe that's the answer?
If you want to compare it to a similar game you'd have to go with United Front's Sleeping Dogs.. which took 2008 to 2012 to make, had lots of folks hired and fired and if Square Enix hadn't jumped in late in development the game would have been shelved. It's got open world, lots of action, a tiny amount of choice, optional romances and a leveling system. Pretty much the most comparable game out there.
If you want to compare it to a similar game you'd have to go with United Front's Sleeping Dogs.. which took 2008 to 2012 to make, had lots of folks hired and fired and if Square Enix hadn't jumped in late in development the game would have been shelved. It's got open world, lots of action, a tiny amount of choice, optional romances and a leveling system. Pretty much the most comparable game out there.
Problem is having a system like that would probably alienate a huge portion of the core demo, people who aren't familiar with the tabletop game. Making a game TT-accurate is something best reserved for the indy scene and even then there's always room for concessions made (for example, HBS Shadowrun had unlimited ammo and higher HP counts).
I mean you're not entirely wrong but at the same time CP2077 came off the heels of Witcher 3, where Sleeping Dogs was originally True Crime 3. So the backlash vs the "ow wow this is actually pretty good" reaction between the games makes a ton of sense in that context.
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Oh absolutely. I wouldn't want that in this either but I was hoping they'd keep closer to more of the core rules for the "RPG" part because it already was an RPG. Don't get me wrong. If they added a hardcore mode that made it a little less forgiving, I'd be all over that.
Aaaand what exactly did go wrong?
I've spend 165h on GTA5 SP, 135h on CP77, well, I barely can say that they have something in common (they actually do, but the impressions are really different).
I would say that CP77 have more common mechanics with Dying Light than with GTA5, and GTA series is a series, so if CDPR would do CP77, CP88, CP99, maybe then it could be compared with a series product.
And my personal impressions:
CP77 is game about future (with unreal setting and crazy plot with a tons of minor bugs) which feels far more REAL than games about present which feels completely UNREAL. It sounds very loud, but, hey, it is impressions=)
At the same time, there's some fun to be had as is. Without spoiling anything, there's a mission where you wake up naked with no gear, and I managed to sneak around, snapping necks, only getting caught as I tried to grab my stuff. Roleplayer in me decided V had time to put on her coat and whip out her trusty SMG to finish out the rest. Felt kinda awesome.