Moved some posts to here:
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/31100-Gameplay-depth-vs-complexity-vs-quot-fun-quot
Remember, this thread is for suggesting what makes your Dream RPG. You can talk about someone else's post, but try to keep it very brief and not return to it. We want a thread Devs can one day cruise through for ideas, not a three-page argument about what is and isn't a gameplay conceit. Or whatever.
hi, I'm new, but I saw that and thought, "perfect!" I'll just do that
My Dream RPG :
- Realistic (that doesn't mean everything has to be real as in like real life, it means everything has to be coherent, like dragons are ok but if technology has not advanced, no mobile phones. To some respect, in DA:I a dragon which fights only on the ground and doesn't fly away when it's losing a battle is not very coherent but that's just a small example.. here's another quick one, there's not a single toilet in most RPGs, what"s up with that? People don't go to the toilet? I remember playing SIERRA games back in the days, they were more realistic than most of today's games)
- NOT MAINSTREAM, for the love of God I DREAM of an RPG which doesn't cater to the masses, which does it's own thing, pushes boundries back, does something original even maybe setting a new standard instead of foolishly applying a worn out model.
Marketing may think you'll lose money if it's a nich game, but history shows that all the epic cultural references are the ones that went out on a limb. If it's a good nich game, it'll probably have more success than a standard mainstream one anyway, and the devs, writers and rest of the team will be all the more proud for having actually created something rather than copy paste and change some details.
So please forget the commercial incentive, do by passion first, money comes if the work is well done anyway.
-Mature
This actually fits into realism, but from my point of view, bad assess who kill a lot of people, actually do say the occasional swear word (to say the least). Most of society's taboos are flawed and incoherent to start off with anyway, so please don't be a slave to the political correct pressure imposed by religious lobbies or what not.
Example; it is more "schocking" to see a nipple than to cut a man's head off. Really? Language, sex and drugs (basically the 3 standard taboos) are common in every day life but mostly unexistent in most media.
Please don't be afraid to be un-politically correct, no one every made anything special and new by abiding to all those bullshit rules anyway. To put it simply, I would hate modern media to be the same in IS held land, North Korea and Europe.....
-- ROLE PLAYING -- choices and consequences
Don't troll the player like EA / Bioware did with DA:I, my dream RPG is one in which the consequences of a player's decisions are actually real, not just a 2 line text or a + or - approval rating for your companions. That's the core of a role playing game for me, if nothing I do or choose makes any difference, if I can't go anywhere except where the game wants me to go then I don't feel like I'm playing a role playing game, I feel like I'm watching an animated 3D interactive movie where my only input is basically when killing mobs and NPC.
This can't really be done without a lot of work, I'm aware of that, and what that means is it usually can't be done without a lot of money, but it's totally worth it (imo) because it is the core of what defines a good RPG in the first place, otherwise, the game should be classed as "adventure" or whatever.
-- ERGONOMICS
My dream RPG would be ergonomical, what this basically refers to is the little things that make life easier for the player. I'm sorry to refer to DA:I again, but it's basically the last game I played.. Anyway, here's an example, if you have a limited amount of save slots, fine, you must have some technological factor to take into account, but if those saved games reach the limit, at least make it simple to delete and make space for them, instead of (like in said game) forcing the player to select each saved game and delete them one by one.
It's just one small example, but an ergonomic game has lots of little details which make life easier for the player and show that the devs actually thought of the player when creating the game.
- GAME PLAY VALUE
I don't care how beautyful the graphics are, how spectacular the cut scenes are, if I finish the game in a few hours, I will be very very dissapointed at having spent so much money in a game, because let's face it, these days game prices never seem to stop increasing, 70 Euros would have been shocking a few years ago, and if you blow that away with 10 or 20 (or less) hours of game play, you feel cheated. (*cough most high end fps games * cough*)
The slacker solution is to create a time sink and copy paste it through a few zones, my dream RPG is one in which the devs and rest of the team don't take shortcuts of the sort. There are lots of creative and often cheap ways to create time sinks outside of the plot itself, one example is crafting, another is grinding (though that's often used by slacker devs, if it's not abused, I think it's fine). The idea though is not to cheat, not to troll the player, not to take short cuts and for example create a zone in which the player must go back and forth 20 times simply to fill time.
- FREEDOM
I don't think this one will ever be taken to the level that I dream of by game designers because even if it's technically possible, it represents such a huge investment.
What I mean is that my dream RPG would be one in which I could do anything I want (that doesn't mean there wouldn't be consequences, but at least the possibility is there).
One example is when RPGs make a town zone with 95% of houses with closed doors you can not interact with.
Another is pushed really hard in games like Fallout, where you can basically kill anyone, including quest givers, or GTA where you can randomly hit a guy in the nuts or steal a car.
--- YOU DONT HAVE TO BE THE GOOD GUY
To be honest, I almost always pick being the good guy when given a choice, however I appreciate not having to, for example, this will allow me once I've played the game "honestly, according to my values and ethics" to role play an evil guy just for fun.
-- NOT A GAME FOR CONSOLES PORTED AT THE LAST MINUTE FOR PC
I get increasingly frustated at ports, I don't want to play on a console, I like my PC, I invested more than a console's worth in it, I've always played games on my PC, so if I choose to NOT play on a console or with a controler, I don't want to be punished by rushed ports or console exclusive game design.....
--THE STORY / PLOT
My dream RPG would be one in which the plot/story would be as good as an amazing book, the kind that goes beyond "you wake up with amnesia and must save the world from a bad guy who wants to be a god" or "you start as a bastard with no family history in the lower classes of society to become a king and restore the kingdom", you get my drift?
--- Autonomy
I LOVE games that give me a house, or a flat, a keep like in DA:I, a base of operations or something that allows me to call a virtual home, but it musn't be just decorative.
Just as much as players like to see their character evolve and become stronger, they (well I do as well) love to evolve "materially". Not that I'm defending consumerism or material stereotypes, but if you can upgrade yourself, it would be nice to upgrade what belongs to you as well, GTA comes to mind for example, or the keep in DA:I or Elder Scrolls, even though I feel more could have been done..
--- Companions that are not just for show
I just recently played Mars War Logs and Bound in Flame, in both games the companions are there only to participate in the plot or discussions. In combat they have no purpose except for tanking a little and outside of combat maybe a superficial badly written romance.
I think I'll stop there, at least for now, but to conclude, I'm prepared to wait years, and pay a lot of money for a game that comes even a little close to my dream RPG. I'd much rather that than wait less long, still pay a lot of money, and get some rushed job which leaves me empty when I finish the game.
But yeah, it's a dream RPG right?
