I don't know about Dark Souls, nor do I care, but I would very much prefer a focused hub structure with freedom to travel back and forth instead of a huge landmass of mostly prop scenery and filler content.
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I don't know about Dark Souls, nor do I care, but I would very much prefer a focused hub structure with freedom to travel back and forth instead of a huge landmass of mostly prop scenery and filler content.
I wonder if they planned some Avalon easter eggs...
(Japoneese - Polish 2001 movie set in a cyberpunk universe, made with Mamoru Oshii (Ghost in the Shell)).
I'm quite sure they did
Beware the bassets, guys, beware They get constructs and play matrix wargames
(Japoneese - Polish 2001 movie set in a cyberpunk universe, made with Mamoru Oshii (Ghost in the Shell)).
I'm quite sure they did
Beware the bassets, guys, beware
They get constructs and play matrix wargames
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-Tthe girl with blades of the tease trailer as the main character -or at least one of the options to choose as main playable character- this is very important
-and please cdpr don't use the MipRefiner effect in cp2077, or at least put an option to deactivate it
-and please cdpr don't use the MipRefiner effect in cp2077, or at least put an option to deactivate it
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I also believe the blades themselves are availble in the game. But you would probably have to buy them, you can't just get them in character creation.
Be nice if the woman herself showed up as an NPC.
This is most likely written here in the topic already, but unfortunately I was not able to go through every post.
It would be pretty awesome if you could implement some sort of Gwent like in The Witcher 3. It was a pretty neat game and collecting all the cards was a real challenge and time consuming, but always fun.
It would be pretty awesome if you could implement some sort of Gwent like in The Witcher 3. It was a pretty neat game and collecting all the cards was a real challenge and time consuming, but always fun.
Has anyone said mod support yet? Because I feel that would be a must to maintain longevity, especially for a game like this.
Not a word.
But I'd guess that has to do with what Mike allows, after all he's the one that owns Cyberpunk.
Is it in his, and Cyberpunks best interests to allow it?
Is the intent to make a game that players can expand on?
A certain amount of unofficial and unsupported modding will be done for any popular game, i.e. nude mods for WoW, regardless of the desires or intent of the designer.
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It would depend on where Cyberpunk 2077's release will leave the Cyberpunk universe. If this is expected to be a one and only video game for Mike Pondsmith's Cyberpunk, then I would hope they would implement some form of modification base and support. While I don't want this to necessarily be a Bethesda-styled open world RPG, there are definitely some player freedoms from the Fallout and Elder Scrolls series that I would be happy to see replicated in CDPR's own edition for CP 2077. Mod support being one of them.
However, if this game sparks enough attention for a plan of sequel (as I hope it does) or somehow becomes interactive with the PnP game (which I also hope makes a comeback soon, perhaps with a new edition), then perhaps gameplay expansion through mods wouldn't be as necessary to keep the game alive and interesting. Of course, we don't know yet what kinds of plans CDPR has for expansions. Perhaps for years to come after release they will be releasing more content for us to experience with our characters.
Another imagination I have is to later on implement a feature similar to the style of the soon releasing Sword Coast DnD game where players can host their own missions and campaigns as GM's or adventurers, and essentially build their own quests for their friends and characters to experience, which would open many possibilities to gameplay continuity after vanilla game completion without constant updates being needed.
Each and every possibility puts another butterfly in my stomach, I'll be honest (as honest as I can be when speaking figuratively that is)
I certainly hope so. I said it on another post in a different category, but I have high hopes that this production will open up a new age for both the Cyberpunk universe, and the cyberpunk genre as a whole in modern entertainment. And with CDPR's track record that you mentioned, I definitely feel that they are the right ones to do it. But I must say that having Mike Pondsmith with them makes me all the more excited that it will be done right and to the original idea that is Cyberpunk. I am not expecting to see a Aliens Colonial Marines error here, and at least I can look forward to that (not that I expect ACM will ever be able to hit Cyberpunk with a laser pointer in a telescope from how many miles deep it is in corporate guano).
It does well in the Shadowrun world I have heard, but I hope to never see it in the Cyberpunk universe. I like to keep fantasy and science fiction a good distance from eachother. I haven't played Shadowrun since the team-based combat one for the 360, which wasn't bad and I give it all points of creativity in it's own universe, but I prefer to keep the Cyberpunk universe close to what reality could be become, as that was its original ideology.
So I got in a situation where I involuntarily have too much time in my hands and got bored. So I made my very own "ultimate what the fuck compilation" of what would be my "dream Cyberpunk 2077". It's just a compilation of old ideas I've had before (with few choice edits, mind you) that I once again feel like reposting because I'm vain like that. /smug
But it's now all in one glorious package with a shitload of letters to decipher (could've put even more letters together, there are areas I didn't touch with that thing, but I'm not that bored).
Like I said, I've said and implied pretty much all of that before, but... Can't repeat enough. A cRPG iteration of Cyberpunk is one my most waited games along with a proper continuation of the Fallout series after the second game, that still hasn't seen the light of day nor does it gleam in the horizon (in other words, it won't ever happen). Don't fuck this up, please. The cRPG industry is full of disappointments of various kinds, it would be grand to have one bigger budget title to accompany the few better Kickstarter games and the old classics.
:ball:
But it's now all in one glorious package with a shitload of letters to decipher (could've put even more letters together, there are areas I didn't touch with that thing, but I'm not that bored).
My "dream RPG" for CP2077 would of course be an isometric point'n click game with turnbased combat, but since that's probably out of the question -- hopefully not -- I've been thinking a bit about how to compromise.
Some "along the lines of" stuff to follow:
Since the player will create his character from the ground up, I'd like that to work like in the PnP. You choose your career package and assign your starting attributes, career skills and pickup skills -- you can of course learn other skills along the way, but that should be harder to accomplish than going with your chose career. How ever many skills and careers there will be in the game. And of course I'd want the system to utilize the PnP diceroll mechanic as far as it is possible. Implement the PnP ruleset as close to the original as possible.
And skills... Don't shy away from unconventional or even odd choices to apply. The little quirks and oddities give a lot of spice for any RPG (like Toaster Repair in the Wasteland games). No skill should really be mandatory (by default that is, obviously a combat oriented character requires combat skills and so on) and all skills should have their own things to offer, be it world interaction, social or combat. Driving and flying skills might be invaluable to certain characters, but not everyone needs to know "how to" by default; it's a choice to aquire the ability or not; geology might not seem like the most useful skill of the bunch, but having invested some in it might yield a surprising benefits while dealing (for what ever reason) with, say, blackmarket value minerals, and so on and so forth.
And furthermore, the game shouldn't revolve around the ideal of "combat first, all else is secondary". Combat and violence are to a point at the center of CP, but fighting is also just one mean to cope with and interact with Night City and its inhabitants.
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I'd like to see a control scheme similiar to Witcher 1, with 2 perspectives. Over the shoulder with some in and out zooming possibilities, and high up point'n click perspective (with WASD still operable, of course). Basically something of a mix of cursor driven point'n click and WASD+mouse.
I'd like the combat to work so that the player initiates a timed "focus on target" that locks the cursor on the enemy/object (press and hold RMB -> the cursor locks on the target with a some sort of visual cue - eg. a shrinking reticle - indicating more focus which brings more accuracy (presented as percentages) the longer the player holds the button down). This would work such that the dedicated skill and stat, the weapon, range (+other possible modifiers like burst fire, lighting, augmentations, possible weapon specific skill requirements, player movement, target movement, limb/eye ailments, etc) determine how long the character can focus on one target at a time (before needing to re-initialize the focus or changing target), at how much the initial accuracy will be before focusing for more and how much benefit can come from a full focus (eg. low skill/stat combination allowing only short focus time and only little gained accuracy). A missed shot goes past the target and hits what ever is behind.
Shooting without aiming would always be considered "firing from hip" and come with hefty penalty on accuracy (literally spraying and praying). Same works with melee/HtH so that un-focused swings are always just random flailings that do less damage and are less likely to be evaded or blocked.
When focusing the cursor would always target the center mass (eg. torso), but the player could also target individual bodyparts by moving the mouse towards them (eg. upwards to select head, left for left arm, etc.) during the focus and each would offer their respective accuracy penalties (and benefits from hitting).
This to emulate the 3.2 second turns and turn sacrifices for aimed shots, and - as CDPR has said that they want a more "actiony" combat - to emulate the PnP rules with more strength than what would come from slapping some of them over a conventional FPS or a TPS spine. The player would still need to maneuver the PC, choose targets, pull the trigger at right times, et cetera. Plenty of "acshun", yet still very RPG-like gameplay without as much inherent need for lightning reflexes and twitch gameplay like with conventional action games (and more importantly, more unconventional gameplay than what we normally see today in AAA titles).
I know there's some controversy over how much stats should dictate the characters potential in performing the tasks; so I'd suggest that there be two difficulty modifiers. One for General Gameplay and one for Combat (scaling easy-normal-hard).
Combat difficulty adjusts the base values of spread and recoil and attack speed etc. for all weapons, slightly (JUST slightly!) alters the done damage (both you and the NPC's), adjusts the availability and base values (for buying and selling) of weapons, armor and ammo; possibly gives you a starting bonus for combat skills based on your chosen career, and adjusts how easily combat skills are improved; the amount and relative ability level and gear of "enemies", etc.
Gameplay difficulty adjusts how effective the skills are, their impact on the gameplay (weapon accuracy and how much recoil throws the aim off, skillchecks and cumulative effects like with barter affecting the prices, etc) and stats (damage and weight modifiers from BODY, movement speed and other modifiers from REF, and so on), how easily you get improvement points, the base prices and availability of items; and so on, the whole nine yards.
The core gameplay is always the same, but you could basically tailor it yo suit your preferences with the difficulty settings. Set both on easy and you have an easy sandbox shooter where skills and stats are helpful but not mandatory; set both on hard and you get a punishing experience where combat is brutal and your character build is absolutely paramount to your success in Night City. Mix and match.
That's just a quick example, but I think the point comes through. Let the difficulty (or other) settings adjust the values of gameplay distortion that comes from the character build.
I remember seeing a screenshot from some conference that implied there'll be some sort of "tactical mode". I don't know how legit it is or what is meant by it, but I'd hope that'd involve some sort of tactical pause or emulating turnbased gameplay in some manner.
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Combat aside, I'd hope that - in the vein of a good PnP session - there'd be opportunities for inventive gameplay through skilluses to the objects, people and items in the world. Something that is not necessarily highlighted nor obvious, but rather something for an inventive player to discover by trying manually (the satisfaction of finding things out, "Hey, what the fuck? I can do this?") or having it appear with an automated check (eg. the PC spotting secrets, traps, etc, not otherwise in sight). Like using the strength feat on a manhole (to reveal something like some hobo's temporary home, or possibly just shit and rats - not every place needs something cool), you could hide there if you are being chased and perhaps even use it as a cover in a firefight. SImiliarly using strenght to a firehydrant and open it (or if you happen to have a pipewrench in your pocket, use it to halve the STR requirement); seemingly an irrelevant task but it may offer opportunities for distraction when used in the right place, or tactical opportunities like knowing that water and electricity combine well. Tipping a smaller car over (if strong enough) to provide cover.
Having the avareness/notice skill to reveal something in the environment (like, if you decide to poke through some trash, you might notice a crumbled piece of paper which could contain a clue to a quest or a piece of info on some certain individual - and which you wouldn't find if the skill check fails, whether by chance or by the PC at the time being too blind to even notice it at all). Noticing a crack on the wall and with enough in "demolitions" you could get an approximation of how much C4 you need to blow the wall open there without collapsing the whole building (and you could try it blind with lesser chances of success and possibly losing everything there was to gain, and possibly even hurting yourself).
It'd be cool if the language skill would be used to translate what people are telling to you, that the text you look at would be gibberish ( "#¤VI¤d%TT@U%&fs/s(%& ) until you have the right amount of skill to understand that he says: "Stop staring at me and fuck off you cretin.", but I don't know how that'd work with fully voiced game (other than books, letters and computer entries).
Skill checks, skill checks, skill checks -- as in the PnP. There are all sorts of neat little possibilities to explore.
The main thing is to make the skills have a tangible effect on the gameplay to make it worth having and improving them, and to make it fun to find out what all you can do with them if/when you have them.
Through the interplay between the world and your characterbuild comes the reactivity and narrative choices and consequences that mold your version of the storyline, which, preferably is about a more personal journey than about what happens around you. You may well miss out on a lot of things, but that should be ok, and the ending should provide a reflection that. Your direct or indirect actions affect the lives of others in different ways, and that should be the spice of the conclusion... what you did while getting where you were going. (Fallout and Fallout 2 being good examples of narrative structuring and conclusive endings.)
I don't think a good or satisfying ending (for an RPG) is one of reaching an ultimate high end climax (like bigass final boss, or saving the world, or resolving a grand dilemma that plagues the "community", or what ever). That's a cliche I'd rather not see in Cyberpunk 2077. And like Mike has said, "Cyberpunk is not about saving the world, but saving yourself". Instead, I'd support an ending similiar to Fallout (the first two games) where the ending is like a bunch of grapes the growth of which you, the player, dictate through your journey towards the goal. The more comprehensive you are, the more comprehensive ending you'll get - and on the other hand, if your PC is not inclined to meddle with the shit of the world, he doesn't need to know what happens to it.
Such design doesn't necessarily need a heavy weight core storyline (neither of the Fallouts had one) because the storyline is open by its nature and unfolds as per your (chosen) participation to a variety of different outcomes. I remember there being people who replayed those games because they felt bad for what they had caused to some of the people and things they meddled with.
That kind of stuff I'd like to see in CP. A hihjly personal (to the PC) core storyline that expands and grows through your participation and reacts to your choices and actions if you choose to participate outside the core. And if you do not, you get only the personal ending that reflects the PC's urge or how the circumstances drove him to keep to himself. Exploring what it might mean to any one person to "save oneself".
Also, what would be neat, would be alternative endstates where the player can at certain stages (through certain choices and character builds) end the story abruptly and still get a unique ending. Like, if he just chooses to hop on a plane or a motorcycle and get the fuck out because shit is starting to hit the fan, or he just decides that this is the goal he wanted (the personal journey). In effect, you could basically tailor the length of the game to suit you; and the game would recognzie and support that. For a fun little gimmick, I would even allow the player to end the game (the story) during the first minute of gameplay, and offer a small ending to support that (that was your story, brief as it was ).
With the sort of reactivity I'm asking for, I don't really need the game to be "HUUUGE" like Witcher 3 or GTA or what ever other big game that CP really, REALLY! doesn't need to ape; just as big enough to provide the sort of highly reactive RPG experience it deserves.
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Thinking about quest structure and roles...
Reactivity should be the first and foremost principle regarding that. That there are options based on the role and the character build that feel rewardingly different and provides refreshing reactivity that rewards beyond simply accomplishing the task and geting paid.
Say, you meet a gang in a grumbling abandoned apartment building they've squatted. You need some persuasive skills to get in touch with them (eg. corp, techie); or, if you are a fixer or rocker you get a free entrance but still need to prove yourself somehow (to lesser extent than with corp or techie) to be trusted a mission they have been planning; or, if you are a cop, the entrance and questline is denied from you altogether. Or what ever fits the bill.
Eventually you get in good terms with them and they trust you with this quest about finding and stealing a new kind of aug some powerful augment mogul is prototyping in his skyscraper the other side of the town. This will provide a large sum of money in the black market and you are offered either a hefty sum of money or a contraption that is to be obtained from nowhere else in the game (your choice).
You seek out the building and start figuring out how to enter. You could go in guns blazing (eg. solo), but this would also alert law enforcement making things a bit fishy; you could gain free entrance (eg. corp) and use that to your advantage; or you could hack or scramble with some systems to put on a firealarm (techie, netrunner, eg.) causing a panic inside the building, and using the chaos to your advantage. Or sneaking inside through some route. Etc.
Once you get inside, you can do the straightforward questline and recieve the reward, or if you have the right role and right character build and explore a bit, you may be able to obtain information that might compromise your willingess to let the prototype into black market. Perhaps you then find the big man himself and are able to become a turncoat mid-quest; maybe, if you get caught as the right guy (correct role, correct character build), you can persuade the captors to let you become said turncoat; elsewise you will be pummeled and thrown out with little to no equipement (perhaps they even strip your augs out, or break them so that they need to be repaired).
If you do the mission straightforward as instructed, you'll be rewarded with what was promised and services from the gang you worked for (eg. blackmarket access, items, gear and information that you'd otherwise have no access to, further quests from them, etc), as well as word going on among the other gangs that you've done a great service to this group which then results in some other gangs being less hostile towards you; but you also just managed to make a powerful enemy from the mogul and his goons. Job well done, reaping the rewards, bearing the consequences and moving on.
If, on the other hand, you decide or must become a turn coat, you'd be obligated a counter mission. Go set some explosives to the base of the gangs house and demolish it (killing everyone there - men, women, children, everyone). Doing this will grant you access to the moguls wares and services (once again, unique in the game; gear, discount augs, quests, etc), but it will also wipe all of the gangs services and benefits out from the game and make other gangs overall less trustful of you.
If you fail, and get thrown out; you'll be the laughing stock for the gangs and need to perform some serious stunts get in their good side again and the corporate guys of that specific nature to deny services from you. Sounds like a massive defeat no-one might want to bear; but, it could, if you do the right things, get you closer to a third party (say, someone being bullied by the gangs and harrassed with overpriced livelihood by the corporate) that gives you a third way of unique continuation of the game (firstly, getting back on your feet and who knows what next).
Those are some immediate effects. The choices you make could also ripple in a smaller scale throughout the game with little side effects here and there, if you find them and have the right character to unlock them. Perhaps you later find the remains of a once powerful gang that got decimated and reduced to group of homeless people whose former soldiers need to now do cheap mercenary work to provide for their families, and the group is of no offensive threat to anyone anymore, they just linger on in their shit. With the specific role (and build), you could talk to a woman with a little girl in some corner (or, be a cop or corp for example and you're told to fuck off without a chance of approaching her), and get her to open up a bit. Her husband is missing and the family needs his income to scrape by, she pleads to your good will to find him (reward being a unique rep bonus with certain groups and people the player might, or might not be interested in). You start to follow the hints that eventually lead you to a pile of rubble that's strangely familiar...... ooops, it's the gang who you blew up some time ago; you made a choice back then and now you realise you've ruined the lives of the family you are now trying to help. OR; if you did that quest the other way, you may find him and give hime the info that his family is starving so what ever he is doing, he better hurry the fuck up.
One the other side, you might get friendly with some law enforcement types and find out that they've had a surveillance job for years on some tech mogul who's been prototyping a certain aug that must not be released, elsewise the the insanity rate caused by the augs will blow up and then everyone is in deep shit. They would need to plant some discriminative evidence to get their hand on the man (and the rest will unfold on it's own; they get their hands on the aug, open it up for evidence and cease it's production). You set out to do the job only find out that you earlier just provided the item the cops are after to the gang who has been selling it in blackmarket..... oh, shit. Or, maybe you did the earlier quest the other way and everyhting goes as planned.
Maybe, because you blew up the gang, the other gangs are at more alerted state making it harder interact with them. Maybe, because you stole the aug, the corporation has tightened their security protocols making it harder enter their buildings again and since they've lost an expensive piece of research, the prices of augs skyrocket.
The rippling needn't always be even that large; it could well be some hearsay in a conversation related to the subject and what it has caused purely on a narritve level. Or some smaller visual changes here and there (like more people like the girl in the trailer appearing and rampaging around).
The player might well miss out on all the longer term reactivity, and that's ok. That it is there to be found, is the point, not whether or not it is spoonfed to the player. That sort of thing is of course immensely complicated to design and implement (or at least I would think so), but that's something I think the game should to strive towards at least to some degree if it wants to stand out from the current market. Effects from the choice of role, skillbuild, choice of narrative paths (some of which are only open to certain builds) within the quests; the whole nine yards. Consequence on a shorter (more immediate) level and in longer terms.
I'm not expecting a perfect game (and my example is far from that), obviously, and I'm not saying "this is it, this is how it needs to be done, or else it's shit, shit, shit". But there is an idea for a framework of sort to draw inspiration from (if it suits the goals of the game -- and I think it does, or should). It does provide interesting prospects for hugely varying gameplay experiences for different builds. And I'd really like to see CDPR try to push the limits on reactivity, choice and consequence, cause and effect - beyond the choice of left or right, sword or bow, stealth or combat.
All kinds of possibilities to consider if there's the will for it; and knowing CDPR to be of the more ambitious type, what with all the pompous "we'll redefine the RPG genre" talk, I think they should look into actually doing that.
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One other thing I hope CDPR looks, and probably rethinks, a bit further is the purported sandbox design. I know there was that mention of CP having "two sandbox environments", but that's the thing I'd hope they'd rethink.
Sandboxes, by their very nature, tend to work so that there is an ungodly amount of artificially inflated gameplay hours through just trekking in a prop scenery, and that is then attempted to mitigate through an equally boring warp-travel that, in the end, reduces the gameplay to just hopping around the map after the given quests and missions. It gets very boring in the long run both ways as the intended realism from the landscape distances becomes a chore once you get to the back and forth phase, and the realism is readily offset by the warp-travel that ignores everythin (even possibly dangerous that would be there if going for it manually) on the way.
Sandbox design in general feels very choresome and boring to me precisely for the elongated repetition it has. This is obvious in all popular sandbox games, GTA, Witcher 3, Skyrim, Saints Row.... This actually hurt my experience with Witcher 3, it was beautiful to watch but damn.... after a while it just started to taste like stale potatoes despite the good writing.
What I would like instead of the mentioned "two sandboxes" - which will no doubt be very large - is to have something like five to seven a bit smaller hub maps that are not just gigantic props, but more densely detailed (both artistically and contentwise) and clearly different areas that offer different gameplay possibilities. And obviously free movement between them (either safely and uneventfully with paid transport, or through the citymap by foor or vehicle with the possibility for the travel to be interrupted). And by "smaller" I don't mean "Deus Ex small" or "VtMB small", but large enough to provide exploration and finding stuff while still keeping a sensible scope and content density.
The paid traveling methods could even include a scenery watch mode, where you just admire the specifically generated prop vistas through the window of the transportation (and possibly even chat with other passengers, who knows, maybe they have something interesting to say about your current goals).
I dunno, I just think everybody's going for either a boring propsandbox or a linear tube-experience. I'd like to see CDPR go a bit different route with CP on that. And the same goes for gameplay itself, map aside.... Most other are aiming at *
RPG------l----*-Action (see the color: shit) with their gameplay conventions. CDPR should boldly take the route for *
RPG--*---I------Action (notice the color: cheerful and uplifting lime green), and in general lean more towards the RPG side of the spectrum, even if still going for more fastpaced combat. There are ways to keep the action flowing while still having the mechanics more character driven.
Some "along the lines of" stuff to follow:
Since the player will create his character from the ground up, I'd like that to work like in the PnP. You choose your career package and assign your starting attributes, career skills and pickup skills -- you can of course learn other skills along the way, but that should be harder to accomplish than going with your chose career. How ever many skills and careers there will be in the game. And of course I'd want the system to utilize the PnP diceroll mechanic as far as it is possible. Implement the PnP ruleset as close to the original as possible.
And skills... Don't shy away from unconventional or even odd choices to apply. The little quirks and oddities give a lot of spice for any RPG (like Toaster Repair in the Wasteland games). No skill should really be mandatory (by default that is, obviously a combat oriented character requires combat skills and so on) and all skills should have their own things to offer, be it world interaction, social or combat. Driving and flying skills might be invaluable to certain characters, but not everyone needs to know "how to" by default; it's a choice to aquire the ability or not; geology might not seem like the most useful skill of the bunch, but having invested some in it might yield a surprising benefits while dealing (for what ever reason) with, say, blackmarket value minerals, and so on and so forth.
And furthermore, the game shouldn't revolve around the ideal of "combat first, all else is secondary". Combat and violence are to a point at the center of CP, but fighting is also just one mean to cope with and interact with Night City and its inhabitants.
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I'd like to see a control scheme similiar to Witcher 1, with 2 perspectives. Over the shoulder with some in and out zooming possibilities, and high up point'n click perspective (with WASD still operable, of course). Basically something of a mix of cursor driven point'n click and WASD+mouse.
I'd like the combat to work so that the player initiates a timed "focus on target" that locks the cursor on the enemy/object (press and hold RMB -> the cursor locks on the target with a some sort of visual cue - eg. a shrinking reticle - indicating more focus which brings more accuracy (presented as percentages) the longer the player holds the button down). This would work such that the dedicated skill and stat, the weapon, range (+other possible modifiers like burst fire, lighting, augmentations, possible weapon specific skill requirements, player movement, target movement, limb/eye ailments, etc) determine how long the character can focus on one target at a time (before needing to re-initialize the focus or changing target), at how much the initial accuracy will be before focusing for more and how much benefit can come from a full focus (eg. low skill/stat combination allowing only short focus time and only little gained accuracy). A missed shot goes past the target and hits what ever is behind.
Shooting without aiming would always be considered "firing from hip" and come with hefty penalty on accuracy (literally spraying and praying). Same works with melee/HtH so that un-focused swings are always just random flailings that do less damage and are less likely to be evaded or blocked.
When focusing the cursor would always target the center mass (eg. torso), but the player could also target individual bodyparts by moving the mouse towards them (eg. upwards to select head, left for left arm, etc.) during the focus and each would offer their respective accuracy penalties (and benefits from hitting).
This to emulate the 3.2 second turns and turn sacrifices for aimed shots, and - as CDPR has said that they want a more "actiony" combat - to emulate the PnP rules with more strength than what would come from slapping some of them over a conventional FPS or a TPS spine. The player would still need to maneuver the PC, choose targets, pull the trigger at right times, et cetera. Plenty of "acshun", yet still very RPG-like gameplay without as much inherent need for lightning reflexes and twitch gameplay like with conventional action games (and more importantly, more unconventional gameplay than what we normally see today in AAA titles).
I know there's some controversy over how much stats should dictate the characters potential in performing the tasks; so I'd suggest that there be two difficulty modifiers. One for General Gameplay and one for Combat (scaling easy-normal-hard).
Combat difficulty adjusts the base values of spread and recoil and attack speed etc. for all weapons, slightly (JUST slightly!) alters the done damage (both you and the NPC's), adjusts the availability and base values (for buying and selling) of weapons, armor and ammo; possibly gives you a starting bonus for combat skills based on your chosen career, and adjusts how easily combat skills are improved; the amount and relative ability level and gear of "enemies", etc.
Gameplay difficulty adjusts how effective the skills are, their impact on the gameplay (weapon accuracy and how much recoil throws the aim off, skillchecks and cumulative effects like with barter affecting the prices, etc) and stats (damage and weight modifiers from BODY, movement speed and other modifiers from REF, and so on), how easily you get improvement points, the base prices and availability of items; and so on, the whole nine yards.
The core gameplay is always the same, but you could basically tailor it yo suit your preferences with the difficulty settings. Set both on easy and you have an easy sandbox shooter where skills and stats are helpful but not mandatory; set both on hard and you get a punishing experience where combat is brutal and your character build is absolutely paramount to your success in Night City. Mix and match.
That's just a quick example, but I think the point comes through. Let the difficulty (or other) settings adjust the values of gameplay distortion that comes from the character build.
I remember seeing a screenshot from some conference that implied there'll be some sort of "tactical mode". I don't know how legit it is or what is meant by it, but I'd hope that'd involve some sort of tactical pause or emulating turnbased gameplay in some manner.
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Combat aside, I'd hope that - in the vein of a good PnP session - there'd be opportunities for inventive gameplay through skilluses to the objects, people and items in the world. Something that is not necessarily highlighted nor obvious, but rather something for an inventive player to discover by trying manually (the satisfaction of finding things out, "Hey, what the fuck? I can do this?") or having it appear with an automated check (eg. the PC spotting secrets, traps, etc, not otherwise in sight). Like using the strength feat on a manhole (to reveal something like some hobo's temporary home, or possibly just shit and rats - not every place needs something cool), you could hide there if you are being chased and perhaps even use it as a cover in a firefight. SImiliarly using strenght to a firehydrant and open it (or if you happen to have a pipewrench in your pocket, use it to halve the STR requirement); seemingly an irrelevant task but it may offer opportunities for distraction when used in the right place, or tactical opportunities like knowing that water and electricity combine well. Tipping a smaller car over (if strong enough) to provide cover.
Having the avareness/notice skill to reveal something in the environment (like, if you decide to poke through some trash, you might notice a crumbled piece of paper which could contain a clue to a quest or a piece of info on some certain individual - and which you wouldn't find if the skill check fails, whether by chance or by the PC at the time being too blind to even notice it at all). Noticing a crack on the wall and with enough in "demolitions" you could get an approximation of how much C4 you need to blow the wall open there without collapsing the whole building (and you could try it blind with lesser chances of success and possibly losing everything there was to gain, and possibly even hurting yourself).
It'd be cool if the language skill would be used to translate what people are telling to you, that the text you look at would be gibberish ( "#¤VI¤d%TT@U%&fs/s(%& ) until you have the right amount of skill to understand that he says: "Stop staring at me and fuck off you cretin.", but I don't know how that'd work with fully voiced game (other than books, letters and computer entries).
Skill checks, skill checks, skill checks -- as in the PnP. There are all sorts of neat little possibilities to explore.
The main thing is to make the skills have a tangible effect on the gameplay to make it worth having and improving them, and to make it fun to find out what all you can do with them if/when you have them.
Through the interplay between the world and your characterbuild comes the reactivity and narrative choices and consequences that mold your version of the storyline, which, preferably is about a more personal journey than about what happens around you. You may well miss out on a lot of things, but that should be ok, and the ending should provide a reflection that. Your direct or indirect actions affect the lives of others in different ways, and that should be the spice of the conclusion... what you did while getting where you were going. (Fallout and Fallout 2 being good examples of narrative structuring and conclusive endings.)
I don't think a good or satisfying ending (for an RPG) is one of reaching an ultimate high end climax (like bigass final boss, or saving the world, or resolving a grand dilemma that plagues the "community", or what ever). That's a cliche I'd rather not see in Cyberpunk 2077. And like Mike has said, "Cyberpunk is not about saving the world, but saving yourself". Instead, I'd support an ending similiar to Fallout (the first two games) where the ending is like a bunch of grapes the growth of which you, the player, dictate through your journey towards the goal. The more comprehensive you are, the more comprehensive ending you'll get - and on the other hand, if your PC is not inclined to meddle with the shit of the world, he doesn't need to know what happens to it.
Such design doesn't necessarily need a heavy weight core storyline (neither of the Fallouts had one) because the storyline is open by its nature and unfolds as per your (chosen) participation to a variety of different outcomes. I remember there being people who replayed those games because they felt bad for what they had caused to some of the people and things they meddled with.
That kind of stuff I'd like to see in CP. A hihjly personal (to the PC) core storyline that expands and grows through your participation and reacts to your choices and actions if you choose to participate outside the core. And if you do not, you get only the personal ending that reflects the PC's urge or how the circumstances drove him to keep to himself. Exploring what it might mean to any one person to "save oneself".
Also, what would be neat, would be alternative endstates where the player can at certain stages (through certain choices and character builds) end the story abruptly and still get a unique ending. Like, if he just chooses to hop on a plane or a motorcycle and get the fuck out because shit is starting to hit the fan, or he just decides that this is the goal he wanted (the personal journey). In effect, you could basically tailor the length of the game to suit you; and the game would recognzie and support that. For a fun little gimmick, I would even allow the player to end the game (the story) during the first minute of gameplay, and offer a small ending to support that (that was your story, brief as it was ).
With the sort of reactivity I'm asking for, I don't really need the game to be "HUUUGE" like Witcher 3 or GTA or what ever other big game that CP really, REALLY! doesn't need to ape; just as big enough to provide the sort of highly reactive RPG experience it deserves.
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Thinking about quest structure and roles...
Reactivity should be the first and foremost principle regarding that. That there are options based on the role and the character build that feel rewardingly different and provides refreshing reactivity that rewards beyond simply accomplishing the task and geting paid.
Say, you meet a gang in a grumbling abandoned apartment building they've squatted. You need some persuasive skills to get in touch with them (eg. corp, techie); or, if you are a fixer or rocker you get a free entrance but still need to prove yourself somehow (to lesser extent than with corp or techie) to be trusted a mission they have been planning; or, if you are a cop, the entrance and questline is denied from you altogether. Or what ever fits the bill.
Eventually you get in good terms with them and they trust you with this quest about finding and stealing a new kind of aug some powerful augment mogul is prototyping in his skyscraper the other side of the town. This will provide a large sum of money in the black market and you are offered either a hefty sum of money or a contraption that is to be obtained from nowhere else in the game (your choice).
You seek out the building and start figuring out how to enter. You could go in guns blazing (eg. solo), but this would also alert law enforcement making things a bit fishy; you could gain free entrance (eg. corp) and use that to your advantage; or you could hack or scramble with some systems to put on a firealarm (techie, netrunner, eg.) causing a panic inside the building, and using the chaos to your advantage. Or sneaking inside through some route. Etc.
Once you get inside, you can do the straightforward questline and recieve the reward, or if you have the right role and right character build and explore a bit, you may be able to obtain information that might compromise your willingess to let the prototype into black market. Perhaps you then find the big man himself and are able to become a turncoat mid-quest; maybe, if you get caught as the right guy (correct role, correct character build), you can persuade the captors to let you become said turncoat; elsewise you will be pummeled and thrown out with little to no equipement (perhaps they even strip your augs out, or break them so that they need to be repaired).
If you do the mission straightforward as instructed, you'll be rewarded with what was promised and services from the gang you worked for (eg. blackmarket access, items, gear and information that you'd otherwise have no access to, further quests from them, etc), as well as word going on among the other gangs that you've done a great service to this group which then results in some other gangs being less hostile towards you; but you also just managed to make a powerful enemy from the mogul and his goons. Job well done, reaping the rewards, bearing the consequences and moving on.
If, on the other hand, you decide or must become a turn coat, you'd be obligated a counter mission. Go set some explosives to the base of the gangs house and demolish it (killing everyone there - men, women, children, everyone). Doing this will grant you access to the moguls wares and services (once again, unique in the game; gear, discount augs, quests, etc), but it will also wipe all of the gangs services and benefits out from the game and make other gangs overall less trustful of you.
If you fail, and get thrown out; you'll be the laughing stock for the gangs and need to perform some serious stunts get in their good side again and the corporate guys of that specific nature to deny services from you. Sounds like a massive defeat no-one might want to bear; but, it could, if you do the right things, get you closer to a third party (say, someone being bullied by the gangs and harrassed with overpriced livelihood by the corporate) that gives you a third way of unique continuation of the game (firstly, getting back on your feet and who knows what next).
Those are some immediate effects. The choices you make could also ripple in a smaller scale throughout the game with little side effects here and there, if you find them and have the right character to unlock them. Perhaps you later find the remains of a once powerful gang that got decimated and reduced to group of homeless people whose former soldiers need to now do cheap mercenary work to provide for their families, and the group is of no offensive threat to anyone anymore, they just linger on in their shit. With the specific role (and build), you could talk to a woman with a little girl in some corner (or, be a cop or corp for example and you're told to fuck off without a chance of approaching her), and get her to open up a bit. Her husband is missing and the family needs his income to scrape by, she pleads to your good will to find him (reward being a unique rep bonus with certain groups and people the player might, or might not be interested in). You start to follow the hints that eventually lead you to a pile of rubble that's strangely familiar...... ooops, it's the gang who you blew up some time ago; you made a choice back then and now you realise you've ruined the lives of the family you are now trying to help. OR; if you did that quest the other way, you may find him and give hime the info that his family is starving so what ever he is doing, he better hurry the fuck up.
One the other side, you might get friendly with some law enforcement types and find out that they've had a surveillance job for years on some tech mogul who's been prototyping a certain aug that must not be released, elsewise the the insanity rate caused by the augs will blow up and then everyone is in deep shit. They would need to plant some discriminative evidence to get their hand on the man (and the rest will unfold on it's own; they get their hands on the aug, open it up for evidence and cease it's production). You set out to do the job only find out that you earlier just provided the item the cops are after to the gang who has been selling it in blackmarket..... oh, shit. Or, maybe you did the earlier quest the other way and everyhting goes as planned.
Maybe, because you blew up the gang, the other gangs are at more alerted state making it harder interact with them. Maybe, because you stole the aug, the corporation has tightened their security protocols making it harder enter their buildings again and since they've lost an expensive piece of research, the prices of augs skyrocket.
The rippling needn't always be even that large; it could well be some hearsay in a conversation related to the subject and what it has caused purely on a narritve level. Or some smaller visual changes here and there (like more people like the girl in the trailer appearing and rampaging around).
The player might well miss out on all the longer term reactivity, and that's ok. That it is there to be found, is the point, not whether or not it is spoonfed to the player. That sort of thing is of course immensely complicated to design and implement (or at least I would think so), but that's something I think the game should to strive towards at least to some degree if it wants to stand out from the current market. Effects from the choice of role, skillbuild, choice of narrative paths (some of which are only open to certain builds) within the quests; the whole nine yards. Consequence on a shorter (more immediate) level and in longer terms.
I'm not expecting a perfect game (and my example is far from that), obviously, and I'm not saying "this is it, this is how it needs to be done, or else it's shit, shit, shit". But there is an idea for a framework of sort to draw inspiration from (if it suits the goals of the game -- and I think it does, or should). It does provide interesting prospects for hugely varying gameplay experiences for different builds. And I'd really like to see CDPR try to push the limits on reactivity, choice and consequence, cause and effect - beyond the choice of left or right, sword or bow, stealth or combat.
All kinds of possibilities to consider if there's the will for it; and knowing CDPR to be of the more ambitious type, what with all the pompous "we'll redefine the RPG genre" talk, I think they should look into actually doing that.
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One other thing I hope CDPR looks, and probably rethinks, a bit further is the purported sandbox design. I know there was that mention of CP having "two sandbox environments", but that's the thing I'd hope they'd rethink.
Sandboxes, by their very nature, tend to work so that there is an ungodly amount of artificially inflated gameplay hours through just trekking in a prop scenery, and that is then attempted to mitigate through an equally boring warp-travel that, in the end, reduces the gameplay to just hopping around the map after the given quests and missions. It gets very boring in the long run both ways as the intended realism from the landscape distances becomes a chore once you get to the back and forth phase, and the realism is readily offset by the warp-travel that ignores everythin (even possibly dangerous that would be there if going for it manually) on the way.
Sandbox design in general feels very choresome and boring to me precisely for the elongated repetition it has. This is obvious in all popular sandbox games, GTA, Witcher 3, Skyrim, Saints Row.... This actually hurt my experience with Witcher 3, it was beautiful to watch but damn.... after a while it just started to taste like stale potatoes despite the good writing.
What I would like instead of the mentioned "two sandboxes" - which will no doubt be very large - is to have something like five to seven a bit smaller hub maps that are not just gigantic props, but more densely detailed (both artistically and contentwise) and clearly different areas that offer different gameplay possibilities. And obviously free movement between them (either safely and uneventfully with paid transport, or through the citymap by foor or vehicle with the possibility for the travel to be interrupted). And by "smaller" I don't mean "Deus Ex small" or "VtMB small", but large enough to provide exploration and finding stuff while still keeping a sensible scope and content density.
The paid traveling methods could even include a scenery watch mode, where you just admire the specifically generated prop vistas through the window of the transportation (and possibly even chat with other passengers, who knows, maybe they have something interesting to say about your current goals).
I dunno, I just think everybody's going for either a boring propsandbox or a linear tube-experience. I'd like to see CDPR go a bit different route with CP on that. And the same goes for gameplay itself, map aside.... Most other are aiming at *
RPG------l----*-Action (see the color: shit) with their gameplay conventions. CDPR should boldly take the route for *
RPG--*---I------Action (notice the color: cheerful and uplifting lime green), and in general lean more towards the RPG side of the spectrum, even if still going for more fastpaced combat. There are ways to keep the action flowing while still having the mechanics more character driven.
Like I said, I've said and implied pretty much all of that before, but... Can't repeat enough. A cRPG iteration of Cyberpunk is one my most waited games along with a proper continuation of the Fallout series after the second game, that still hasn't seen the light of day nor does it gleam in the horizon (in other words, it won't ever happen). Don't fuck this up, please. The cRPG industry is full of disappointments of various kinds, it would be grand to have one bigger budget title to accompany the few better Kickstarter games and the old classics.
:ball:
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Neither and both. If done "right" the player not the game will decide how it plays.
This right here. Player choice, true open gameplay. Let us decide. Personally, I like the idea of stealth, and I end up playing stealth, but thats because it tends to be more effective. If given a choice, where all options are equal, I'll pick 'kick the door in, guns blazing', every time. If CDPR can give us a true measure of reasonable choice, 2077 will truely be the grtest RPG of all time.
- Open world/worlds, obviously
- No looting or very limited looting (Mass Effect 3). Not needing to loot means less inturrupted gameplay experience.
- Find helpful human resources through meaningful missions/quests for crafting specialized gear.
- Crafting done through a step by step wizard (e.g DA: Inqusition, online car configurators)
- Varied/In depth combat mechanics.
- Character development that does not need to level up but acquire abilities. (Batman Arkham series ). Would be helpful to make the difficulty more even/consistent across the board. (Witcher 3 and Skyrim suffered at times because of levelling). Batman games got it right, I think. Imagine the same system for Witcher 3. Makes sense to me.
Thats all for now.
- No looting or very limited looting (Mass Effect 3). Not needing to loot means less inturrupted gameplay experience.
- Find helpful human resources through meaningful missions/quests for crafting specialized gear.
- Crafting done through a step by step wizard (e.g DA: Inqusition, online car configurators)
- Varied/In depth combat mechanics.
- Character development that does not need to level up but acquire abilities. (Batman Arkham series ). Would be helpful to make the difficulty more even/consistent across the board. (Witcher 3 and Skyrim suffered at times because of levelling). Batman games got it right, I think. Imagine the same system for Witcher 3. Makes sense to me.
Thats all for now.
A variety of netrunning opportunities, capabilities, rewards, difficulties, and results. Perhaps even the ability to craft your own data fortress to house all of your collected secrets into so that you can hold on to them to sell, trade, or use as blackmail if desired.
The best rpg ever REQUIREMENTS:
1.Good story
2.Great/Realistic melee/fighting moves and finishing moves
3.Logical guns, equipment, stealth, smart AI, good map structure etcetc.
4.Don't show a alpha gameplay with EPIC textures then in the final game downgrade it, I know i know that it has to be downgrade it but dont hype the game by eye candy Its not good
5.Add vehicles, since its gonna be 2077 in the future you need to have some vehicles
My ideas for this game:
Epic camera finishing moves, I don't like this game to be like the witcher 3 even tho the witcher was awesome but i would enjoy some good deflect animations different deflect/defense movements and finishers.
I want to have some kind of running mechanic, jumping, sprinting and then slide in very fast speed.
Day-Night cycle
This is for today XD i will post my future ideas
[Sard Edit: not really a place to go into bitching about Downgrades. Also, less about Dream RPG and more dream any-videogame-ever. Still, I left one in because it amused me. ]
1.Good story
2.Great/Realistic melee/fighting moves and finishing moves
3.Logical guns, equipment, stealth, smart AI, good map structure etcetc.
4.Don't show a alpha gameplay with EPIC textures then in the final game downgrade it, I know i know that it has to be downgrade it but dont hype the game by eye candy
Its not good5.Add vehicles, since its gonna be 2077 in the future you need to have some vehicles
My ideas for this game:
Epic camera finishing moves, I don't like this game to be like the witcher 3 even tho the witcher was awesome but i would enjoy some good deflect animations different deflect/defense movements and finishers.
I want to have some kind of running mechanic, jumping, sprinting and then slide in very fast speed.
Day-Night cycle
This is for today XD i will post my future ideas
[Sard Edit: not really a place to go into bitching about Downgrades. Also, less about Dream RPG and more dream any-videogame-ever. Still, I left one in because it amused me. ]
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I have a critique about the storytelling in Witcher 3 and figured it would be put to better use on this forum. After having played 200 hours and completing the game, I feel there's a problem with the emotional emphasis in the story telling.
I figured this was a suggestion that was not helpful for Witcher 3 since the story was obviously set in stone. But thank you for reading my suggestion and thank you for being the greatest and my favorite game company, I can't wait for 2077!
[Sard Edit: Added spoiler tags. Your Dream RPG needs believable emotional emphasis, is what you're saying. Just say that.]
As an example ********** WITCHER 3 SPOILER ALERT! ********** When Geralt finally finds Ciri in the Isle of Mists and think's she's dead it really doesn't pull at my heartstrings as much as it seemed like it was supposed to. ********** END SPOILER **********
I believe this is because Ciri was not made a likeable enough character in the content we were given before that point. I felt it was the same during ********** WITCHER 3 SPOILER ALERT! ********** the "Super Ciri" scene at the end of the game and the end scenes in general. ********* END SPOILER **********
I believe this is because Ciri was not made a likeable enough character in the content we were given before that point. I felt it was the same during ********** WITCHER 3 SPOILER ALERT! ********** the "Super Ciri" scene at the end of the game and the end scenes in general. ********* END SPOILER **********
I figured this was a suggestion that was not helpful for Witcher 3 since the story was obviously set in stone. But thank you for reading my suggestion and thank you for being the greatest and my favorite game company, I can't wait for 2077!
[Sard Edit: Added spoiler tags. Your Dream RPG needs believable emotional emphasis, is what you're saying. Just say that.]
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The best rpg ever REQUIREMENTS:
1.Good story
2.Great/Realistic melee/fighting moves and finishing moves
3.Logical guns, equipment, stealth, smart AI, good map structure etcetc.
4.Don't show a alpha gameplay with EPIC textures then in the final game downgrade it, I know i know that it has to be downgrade it but dont hype the game by eye candy
5.Add vehicles, since its gonna be 2077 in the future you need to have some vehicles
My ideas for this game:
Epic camera finishing moves, I don't like this game to be like the witcher 3 even tho the witcher was awesome but i would enjoy some good deflect animations different deflect/defense movements and finishers.
I want to have some kind of running mechanic, jumping, sprinting and then slide in very fast speed.
Day-Night cycle
This is for today XD i will post my future ideas
[Sard Edit: not really a place to go into bitching about Downgrades. Also, less about Dream RPG and more dream any-videogame-ever. Still, I left one in because it amused me. ]
All cool ideas, I would be ok with a perma-night cycle though to be honest in this setting.
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