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Seems like a chicken and egg scenario, and counter intuitive to me. I think I prefer to choose my skills and then play accordingly. Not the other way around. As for skills being locked off entirely, not sure I like that idea. As far as RPG mechanics go, the Divinity series is probably my favorite due to a very flexible and effective classless system, and it sounds similar to Cyberpunk 2020.
I like the idea of linking skill progression to your actions to a certain extent, but it shouldn't be TOO important. I don't want things to get so meta that my decisions are made because of what skills I want to develop, or to get specific equipment, rather than what I think is right in the context of the particular playthrough. It's too much like the old alignment stats - Ooops, I can't kill that guy because it'll move me away from my Lawful-Good status and they I won't be able to get the special bonus Paragon gear to help in the final boss-fight.
I'm assuming that this is what Sard meant by Elder Scrolls Syndrome.
So there should always be alternatives. If my persuasion skills are harder to develop because I keep beating the shit out of people instead of talking to them, maybe I can get back to default by taking an online course on How To Make Friends And Influence People. So probably no hard consequences, only soft/temporary ones.
I'm assuming that this is what Sard meant by Elder Scrolls Syndrome.
So there should always be alternatives. If my persuasion skills are harder to develop because I keep beating the shit out of people instead of talking to them, maybe I can get back to default by taking an online course on How To Make Friends And Influence People. So probably no hard consequences, only soft/temporary ones.
I like classless RPGs as well, it would be really boring if CP2077 is another RPG where you pick a class and only get to experience character development within that class. And cool idea dragonbird, that would be interesting as well.
The idea of having your skill progression determined by your gameplay choices seems so logical. It doesn't make sense for someone who doesn't do hacking to become a master hacker, or someone who prefers shotguns over sniper rifles to excel as a sniper.
The focus of the game should be character development, not completing all the skills trees or getting all the items. If the game offers other choices as a consequence of one choice, then I think that's a fair trade for not getting to experience something else. Imagine all the unique characters we're going to be able to make because of our gameplay decisions.
The idea of having your skill progression determined by your gameplay choices seems so logical. It doesn't make sense for someone who doesn't do hacking to become a master hacker, or someone who prefers shotguns over sniper rifles to excel as a sniper.
The focus of the game should be character development, not completing all the skills trees or getting all the items. If the game offers other choices as a consequence of one choice, then I think that's a fair trade for not getting to experience something else. Imagine all the unique characters we're going to be able to make because of our gameplay decisions.
Mm. That sounds more like Mass Effect Syndrome. I should have been clearer. Elder Scrolls lets you raise skills by use. They've since improved it, but the old way used to be, "I need my stealth skill way up if I want to sneak past that skeleton warrior. That'll take me another hour of gameplay at least! Orr..I could sneak into a corner behind a guard here and just keeps sneaking into the corner until I'm high enough! Yeah!"
Also useful for improving your Athletics skill: lock your spacebar down and wait. Sad but true.
No, I never, ever ever did that. How pathetic!
I imagine using gameplay-only skills, or gameplay centric, would result in many less unique characters. Time nvested and situation limitations would result in stealth/social/combat skillsets, rather than snipers with shotguns who can also talk fast. Just because.
I agree with the time limitation, that's a good concern. Maybe not require grinding for skill progression?
I don't understand the situation limitation bit- if the game has options for nonlinear gameplay, then it will have just as many option for skill progression. What progresses depends on you.
But you know what, I wouldn't mind this skill system being implemented in a mode with higher difficulty so that not everyone has to suffer through it.
My biggest pet peeve with RPGs lately has been that choosing a higher difficulty only results in making combat harder, but the mission and character development aspects remain the same.
Another pet peeve of mine is that an increase in game difficulty results in a grind fest or endurance test. Grinding or endurance tests are not difficult at all actually, they're just incredibly boring.
It would make sense to have more severe choice and consequence, or trickier and less forgiving scenarios/opponents, in the more difficult modes of a game.
I don't understand the situation limitation bit- if the game has options for nonlinear gameplay, then it will have just as many option for skill progression. What progresses depends on you.
But you know what, I wouldn't mind this skill system being implemented in a mode with higher difficulty so that not everyone has to suffer through it.
My biggest pet peeve with RPGs lately has been that choosing a higher difficulty only results in making combat harder, but the mission and character development aspects remain the same.
Another pet peeve of mine is that an increase in game difficulty results in a grind fest or endurance test. Grinding or endurance tests are not difficult at all actually, they're just incredibly boring.
It would make sense to have more severe choice and consequence, or trickier and less forgiving scenarios/opponents, in the more difficult modes of a game.
Ooh! Ooh! On Hardcore, (2020/Rtal/Pondsmith/Blackhand setting), you could set it up so that not only do you get one save, BUT any and every NPC is killable. That would screw up mission progression but good. Then you might have to either a) reload that save or b) figure another way to get the job done. B) would be pretty tough to code for, though, I'd suppose.
I'd also like to see a [Simulation] option, so that we can try out different skill, gear and weapon load-outs before finalizing them in-game. This should be pretty easy to do in Cyberpunk 2077, since CP2020 already has virtual reality.
I'd also like to see a [Simulation] option, so that we can try out different skill, gear and weapon load-outs before finalizing them in-game. This should be pretty easy to do in Cyberpunk 2077, since CP2020 already has virtual reality.
That simulation thing sounds really useful. And yes, I would like a 2020/Rtal/Pondsmith/Blackhand mode
Great ideas
The world needs to be destroyable, I want to be able to smash my car though the lobby of the police head quarters to be able to take my rampage to a new level.
If I want to get to the fourth floor, then like hell I will take the stairs, I want to be able to ninja jump my way up there and be able to jump out the window do a triple back flip then land it on the next building
Fighting mechanics that allow me to rip off the enemy's cyber arm then stab their buddy next to them before breaking their knee then throwing them down the street.
The colours I wear effect the chances that the enemy may or may not see me, that way I can make my way though a corp. building with out the need for stealth tech.
The world needs to be destroyable, I want to be able to smash my car though the lobby of the police head quarters to be able to take my rampage to a new level.
If I want to get to the fourth floor, then like hell I will take the stairs, I want to be able to ninja jump my way up there and be able to jump out the window do a triple back flip then land it on the next building
Fighting mechanics that allow me to rip off the enemy's cyber arm then stab their buddy next to them before breaking their knee then throwing them down the street.
The colours I wear effect the chances that the enemy may or may not see me, that way I can make my way though a corp. building with out the need for stealth tech.
As sandbox goes, that's pretty much what one would want out of one. But, I'll say it again, this is very hard to do properly. Look towards the BFBC/BF series and Mercenaries 2 for how to do it wrong. In BF, the wall gets magically teleported away and replaced with lots of smoke, andin Mercs 2... let's just say it feels stupid and keep it at that.
While any gadget that gives you more freedom of movemtn is good, I think that acrobatics could ruin it somewhat.
Read this:
. As for the "ripping an enemy's arm off" part, they're normally pretty well mounted. And making a game mechanic with that in mind isn't as easy as you'd think to get right.me said:
That's basic logic, why're you mentioning this?
Also, I recommend reading this article on the subject of stealth. It explains more simple than I could what the different types of stealth gameplay are. You want to play as more of a spy. I, however, favor the conman. And then there's other people who like to play the sneak and love their stealth gadgets.
I plan to play a Solo big time. One thing that always irked me in the Cyberpunk 2020 RPG was the Humanity Loss from the cybernetic implants. Seriously? That needs to be cut out right from the get-go. In a futuristic world such as this, cybernetics should be expected and welcomed. I mean, think about it...would you tell a quadriplegic (lost the use of legs and arms) that if they get cyberlimbs to replace what they have lost...they would suddenly be exposed to the whole 'Cyberpsychosis' thing? Come on....I don't buy that malarky anymore than you do. I say that the Humanity Loss rpg aspect should not be introduced at all in this game, or any other.
Thank You....
Thank You....
just a random thought for CDPR
after the success of your teaser trailer the motto from the song - personal responisbility - has basically became an internet meme.
It would be great if the story of CP77 would also strongly resolve around this.
Now one would say that for example witcher is like this. But i think that making hard moral choices doesnt exactly equal taking responsibilty. It should a bit more than that.
after the success of your teaser trailer the motto from the song - personal responisbility - has basically became an internet meme.
It would be great if the story of CP77 would also strongly resolve around this.
Now one would say that for example witcher is like this. But i think that making hard moral choices doesnt exactly equal taking responsibilty. It should a bit more than that.
" a bit more than that" meaning....what would you like to them to do in terms of "responsibility"?
Also, Humanity Loss is very much in already. That's the cause of Cyberpsychosis, that and Technoshock. The cyberpsychosis that Max-Tac deals with.
Humanity Loss is also an important CP2020 idea, as it crystallizes the idea of our technology making us less than we were. Or more capable, if you prefer, but less human. Is it a perceived psychosis or an allergic response to cyber or a culturally-induced phobia? These questions make up a BIG part of Cyberpunk 2020.
The mental challenges of being a quadriplegic are many and varied and mostly horrible, but I wouldn't say that they are immune to cyberpsychosis in 2020, no.
It's also necessary as a limiting factor to cyber. Everything has a price - you want to swap the meat for metal, you pay the price. And i don't mean mere euro, chombatta.
Also, Humanity Loss is very much in already. That's the cause of Cyberpsychosis, that and Technoshock. The cyberpsychosis that Max-Tac deals with.
Humanity Loss is also an important CP2020 idea, as it crystallizes the idea of our technology making us less than we were. Or more capable, if you prefer, but less human. Is it a perceived psychosis or an allergic response to cyber or a culturally-induced phobia? These questions make up a BIG part of Cyberpunk 2020.
The mental challenges of being a quadriplegic are many and varied and mostly horrible, but I wouldn't say that they are immune to cyberpsychosis in 2020, no.
It's also necessary as a limiting factor to cyber. Everything has a price - you want to swap the meat for metal, you pay the price. And i don't mean mere euro, chombatta.
Personal responsibility might as well be a label on every CDPR game. That is what the Witcher is all about, and most likely CP 2077
regarding the humanity loss/ cyberpsychosis thing, going beyond boundaries plays a large role in every cyberpunk stuff. It's pretty much what cyberpunk is about since everything can be turned into a weapon (technology in this case), thus leading to different types of wars. Like in videodrome, tetsuo, deus ex or existenz...that said, i don't like the idea too. I hope some mods will change some aspects of the game
I just hope humanity and humanity loss are a mechanic of which the player can be aware of (checking stats and such) but I also hope that the writing of the game goes as cheap as to have corporations or scientists use such a vague term as humanity or saying "this piece of cyber carries a lower humanity loss than the competence's".
Humanity being lost should be something that anacronysms say: old people, bigots... but it should take many forms, there could be many interpretations to what humanity and humanity loss represents:
maybe someone that has got a lot of cyber can be harsh to people because he/she's all for performance and results and he or she doesn't see the logical reason to remain flesh... because be it a good or a bad thing, humans (and maybe it's us being animals, and not just humans) aren't always driven by cold logic, that's why it scares us when someone reaches an "easy" solution to a human problem, or it is simply important for us, even if we're wrong. Maybe you replaced that part of you where you had a birthmark, scar, tattoo that held emotional (not logical) importance. Maybe it's a moment when you couldn't control the grip of your cyber hand. Maybe it's the feeling that your brain is encased in a doll body, not the one you were born in.
I'm cool with the rules in datafortress2020 that have humanity loss 0 for limbs/structures analogue to those a normal human has, replacement limbs mainly. You know, as long as one isn't too eager to rip is functioning arms/legs to get cybered up... but maybe that would complicate the rules too much having to track the history of your libs, or maybe it wouldn't, what the fuck do I know?
Also, be easy with the relationship humanity = mental health. I'm okay with having loss of the first trigger the appearance of mental disorders but specially if some of these disorders have a real life parallel... maybe have them as traits/disadvantages for people with no humanity loss? Maybe at least in the PnP (maybe that has already been adressed)? One thing is being a psychopath or being devoid of empathy, but there's things like schyzophrenia, depression, bi-polar disorder... yes, they could be triggered by cybernetics, but also by other means. I think I made it clear despite myself.
Also-also, isn't there some way to regain lost humanity with therapy in CP2020?
I will have to disagree with you.. I would love to have a Fallout 3 like mechanic, where you can check your humanity and faction stats.
We will have to fight in the arena an sort our differences now, oh well...
Love the option to destroy factions we hate
I was hoping to destroy thief guild in Skyrim but can't
I was hoping to destroy thief guild in Skyrim but can't
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