Cyberpunk Edgerunners - No plans for 2nd Season

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Couldn't agree more with this. It goes without saying that female characters that are not fansevicey are taken much more seriously as characters as they feel more down to earth and realistic. That makes them more likeable, even. To put an example: I take the character of Rhaenyra more seriously than Daenerys, because Dany was shown completely naked since the beginning and several times more since (yeah, I'm a bit obsessed with HotD), while Rhaenyra got character development and plenty of screen time before her first sex scene (which was way more tasteful than Daenerys' ones, anyway). We can make a similar comparison between Miyazaki's female characters and Edgerunners'.
I think GoT did better than most, live action has tried to change so even though Daenerys had that scene, she was still a force to be reckoned with. I think her scenes were necessary to show what drives her because those were women's experiences within similar time periods, being political bargaining tools. I don't think it was meant to be erotic, or at least I didn't see it that way. There is a place for those scenes as long as they aren't just there for shock value or fans service but to add to the story or character.


Anime is a different story, and that's partly because it's a niche by comparison to live action so no one is vocal about it not changing. Unfortunately or fortunately it has increased in popularity over the years which means its sometimes the first things kids see as entertainment. We really should at least try to ensure the stories are more balanced in how both women and men are represented. There's a reason the protagonist for Edgerunner was a male and not female. It's what sells more. That's just reflecting the audience which is fine, it's business, but that doesn't mean we have to reduce one character to a damsel to tell a good story.

As I said there are exceptions so writers are listening. Someone mentioned Arcane as an example although that's a western production so not anime but it's still a step in the right direction. Anime studios may see the success when you tell more diverse stories and opt to do better
 
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Unfortunately or fortunately it has increased in popularity over the years which means its sometimes the first things kids see as entertainment. We really should at least try to ensure the stories are more balanced in how both women and men are represented. There's a reason the protagonist for Edgerunner was a male and not female. It's what sells more.
To add to this; a lot of popular anime is a specifc demographic (shonen), the target audience of which is adolescent boys. There are new and old examples of anime and manga with positive roles for men and women, zero fan-service - sadly not as popular.
 
I think GoT did better than most, live action has tried to change so even though Daenerys had that scene, she was still a force to be reckoned with. I think her scenes were necessary to show what drives her because those were women's experiences within similar time periods, being political bargaining tools. I don't think it was meant to be erotic, or at least I didn't see it that way. There is a place for those scenes as long as they aren't just there for shock value or fans service but to add to the story or character.
I'd say those scenes were both: they illustrated the political bargain tool thing but they way they were represented was charged with eroticism, not the best way to portray such a situation if you ask me. The new series is so much better in that regard.
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As I said there are exceptions so writers are listening. Someone mentioned Arcane as an example although that's a western production so not anime but it's still a step in the right direction. Anime studios may see the success when you tell more diverse stories and opt to do better
Arcane doesn't have as many trope-related problems as Anime does, but it definitely has some. A step in the right direction, yes, but not quite there (but in this case we wouldn't be taking about gender-related tropes but of other kinds).
 
I'd say those scenes were both: they illustrated the political bargain tool thing but they way they were represented was charged with eroticism, not the best way to portray such a situation if you ask me. The new series is so much better in that regard.
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Arcane doesn't have as many trope-related problems as Anime does, but it definitely has some. A step in the right direction, yes, but not quite there (but in this case we wouldn't be taking about gender-related tropes but of other kinds).
I don't think having nudity is the problem, it's how it's used. Same with Edgerunners as it is in GoT. Look at something like Ghost in the Shell. The very first appearance the Major made in the anime adaptation was her in the nude. It wasn't treated as fan service, you understood that this was a cyborg using a tool that she had no attachment to. It wasn't erotic at all. In edgerunners there is an element of sex and gratuity that comes with the cyberpunk genre so I fully expect there to be nudity in it BUT every female character doesn't have to be created for fan service and it shouldn't be the focus.

For GoT you'd have to be more specific but that might be for another discussion so we don't stray from the topic. You mentioned her being nude from the start of the show but she was being treated as property so yes that was necessary for the story. If it made you uncomfortable then the scene did it's job, that's the point. If you watch any slavery film, that's exactly how it's portrayed because that is what happened to ppl who were seen as less than. It underscored the point that Daenerys, a woman, was seen as a thing to be traded.

It's an ugly truth but a sure way of ensuring we repeat our past mistakes is by turning away from it or pretending the history it's influenced by wasn't as bad as it was. If they dressed it up and toned things down then it's just a watered down version and she would most likely be seen as just an angry woman. I also don't recall the character liking any of it, so I don't know how it could be perceived as sensual or erotic. If any male watched those scenes and felt it was then they probably have some work to do on themselves.

I haven't seen Arcane in its entirety, just snippets here and there so I can't speak to it much
 
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If this trend continues it might end the cyberpunk genre for me.

Yes it is always dystopian and dark with alot of gut twisting feels. But stuff like Blade Runner does the same but leaves with a sense of Hope.

So far all i saw be it Cyberpunk 2077 or Edgerunners is depressing shit with 0 Hope for anyone. Like f everything and throw your hope out the window everyone will die or suffer anyway regardless what anyone does. Thats not entertainment thats basically a guide on how to get depressive.
 
If this trend continues it might end the cyberpunk genre for me.

Yes it is always dystopian and dark with alot of gut twisting feels. But stuff like Blade Runner does the same but leaves with a sense of Hope.

So far all i saw be it Cyberpunk 2077 or Edgerunners is depressing shit with 0 Hope for anyone. Like f everything and throw your hope out the window everyone will die or suffer anyway regardless what anyone does. Thats not entertainment thats basically a guide on how to get depressive.
If that's all you took away from it then maybe it's just not the genre for you and that's ok.
I mean, pretending life is all sunshine and rainbows isn't exactly what I'd call healthy either. You find hope in the small things.

Besides, as far as cyberpunk anime goes this isn't even as dark as those before it. While I have many problems with edgerunners, that's probably not one of them.
 
The way it ends pretty much leaves no room for continuation, anyway. And if they would keep spewing old-ass tropes such as damsels in distress, gay villains and pointless fanservice (not even counting other anime-specific tropes), then it's better that it remains a standalone. I had a good time watching it, it did its job providing entertainment, but the tropes are tiresome as fuck and should just die already.
 
If that's all you took away from it then maybe it's just not the genre for you and that's ok.
I mean, pretending life is all sunshine and rainbows isn't exactly what I'd call healthy either. You find hope in the small things.

Besides, as far as cyberpunk anime goes this isn't even as dark as those before it. While I have many problems with edgerunners, that's probably not one of them.

Sure not like i grew up with the cyberpunk genre and know how dark it is. But it's not that dark. What we have seen so far is basically "there is no hope and everyone will die" which is not really what the cyberpunk genre is about.

Cause if we go by that logic the only real cyberpunk is silverhand who tries to dismantle the power of the corporations by burning them all to the ground. And the rest is just wannabe punks who leech of the system to benefit their own little bubble.
 
the only real cyberpunk is silverhand who tries to dismantle the power of the corporations by burning them all to the ground. And the rest is just wannabe punks who leech of the system to benefit their own little bubble.
This is IMHO 100% true
 
Sure not like i grew up with the cyberpunk genre and know how dark it is. But it's not that dark. What we have seen so far is basically "there is no hope and everyone will die" which is not really what the cyberpunk genre is about.

Cause if we go by that logic the only real cyberpunk is silverhand who tries to dismantle the power of the corporations by burning them all to the ground. And the rest is just wannabe punks who leech of the system to benefit their own little bubble.
The wannabe punks are apart of what makes the genre what it is. Cyberpunk has never been about heroism. Part of it's DNA is the addiction...whether it's to cyberware, drugs or money. It's about finding hope even amidst all of that, against all odds.

Typically the characters don't have plot armor because the genre isn't predicated on fantasy. It's supposed feel like this could happen in the real world. That's why the technology used is never too futuristic because it needs to feel like the not too distant future and in the real world the power of "friendship" isn't plot armor.

I hate to even defend the series because I didn't particularly like it but if the criticism is David dying then that's just 1 protagonist out of hundreds in anime with infinite plot armor. They did the right thing. Him dying doesn't mean there's no hope. Even though I didn't finish the anime I'm going to guess he died so someone else could live. That, is the ultimate expression of love and hope.
 
I thought that Edgerunners was very good and it had that "wrong people, wrong city" bittersweet ending that doesn't sit well with you but feels totally appropriate. The real antagonist isn't Kiwi or Faraday or Adam Smasher; It is Night City itself. It is a basic tenet of the video game as well as Mike's pen/paper source material going that goes back decades.

Whether it be pride, honor, innocence, or something else, Night City exacts a heavy price from the people who dare to fly too close to the sun. The crash is inevitable and there is no one there to catch you when you fall. Like Judy said, "No shortcuts. You take that route, the city always wins."

I think my only complaint is that none of my favorite Conrad Oldmoney or Le Destroy songs in the game made it to the show's soundtrack but that might've been due to licensing and is an easy thing to forgive. I did enjoy how subversively the show used I Really Want to Stay at Your House by Rosa Walton and Halle Coggins. Trigger took the second poofiest pop song in the game (right behind Pon Pon Shit) and transformed it into an anthem of tragedy. Pure genius.

Looking forward to seeing what else Trigger does with the setting. Anything that leads to more crossover DLC for us is a good thing. It is totally awesome and also a bit sad to be able to go to Afterlife in game and order a David Martinez.

Here's to you, homie. *glasses clink*
 
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Typically the characters don't have plot armor because the genre isn't predicated on fantasy. It's supposed feel like this could happen in the real world. That's why the technology used is never too futuristic because it needs to feel like the not too distant future and in the real world the power of "friendship" isn't plot armor.
I get your point here, that the dystopian degenerate society owned by corporations is not far from a possible distant future, but I disagree concerning the technology: a human body getting ripped apart to be implanted with cyberware and somehow surviving is the part that is 100% fantasy, be it in 2077 or in 2777 :shrug:
 
The wannabe punks are apart of what makes the genre what it is. Cyberpunk has never been about heroism. Part of it's DNA is the addiction...whether it's to cyberware, drugs or money. It's about finding hope even amidst all of that, against all odds.

Typically the characters don't have plot armor because the genre isn't predicated on fantasy. It's supposed feel like this could happen in the real world. That's why the technology used is never too futuristic because it needs to feel like the not too distant future and in the real world the power of "friendship" isn't plot armor.

I hate to even defend the series because I didn't particularly like it but if the criticism is David dying then that's just 1 protagonist out of hundreds in anime with infinite plot armor. They did the right thing. Him dying doesn't mean there's no hope. Even though I didn't finish the anime I'm going to guess he died so someone else could live. That, is the ultimate expression of love and hope.

The wannabe punks are wortheless. They eat the crumbs from the people who kill them. Work for them to kill each other. And cherry on top try to become like them for superficial reasons only to realize they became what they fought their entire lifes. That would only work a few generations before everyone from below would eat the few on the upside. You can't have it both ways. Either the wannabe punks follow real cyberpunks and their ideals. Or they stay wannabe punks for a time until the gig is up and the many eat the few.

Sure cyberpunk was never about heroism but so are alot of other genres that don't need to kill all hope off to establish a point about finding hope against all odds. Imagine you watch a Movie series called "Final Destination" in the first movie everyone dies cause you can't cheat death. In the second movie someone can cheat death. In the third movie the message is "Nope you can't" and the survivors from movie 2 die all in movie 3. How many more movies do you need to watch to know you are wasting your time cause you know exactly how it is going to end?

The point i try to make is this. Be it the game or the Edgerunner series. If the entire plot goes towards the "it is all hopeless" the writer or producer or whoever is responsible for it hasn't understood what the cyberpunk genre even is.

Blade Runner, Elysium, Dredd, Tron, Robocop, The Matrix, Total Recall fit the bill to be a dystopian future that could be reality in the foreseeable future. Yet none of them kill all hope for the audience that experience these movies. Yes technology plays a big part. So do drugs and most people have very low life standards while the rich and powerful have all the benefits in technology and healthcare they can get.

I didn't say David died nor did i specify any character dying. But if someone needs to die so others can live you can always go to RDR2 and show how this is supposed to work. If someone needs to die for others to live at least give the death or life meaning.

David is a top grade student and keeps making the dumbest decisions despite his intellect. Be it installing cyberware that literally drove someone insane a few days ago or never shedding a tear about his dead mother at all. I would really love to like the edgerunner series but to me together with the game they just kinda killed the entire franchise for me.

Thats not cyperpunk at all. Thats just kill hope, rational thought, emotions and become a machine that just functions. Awesome but even Robocop has more emotions and that is what 40 years ago?
 
The point i try to make is this. Be it the game or the Edgerunner series. If the entire plot goes towards the "it is all hopeless" the writer or producer or whoever is responsible for it hasn't understood what the cyberpunk genre even is.
Hum... CDPR wrote their "stories" with Mike Pondsmith (and R.Talsorian), the very creators of Cyberpunk* from which originated Cyberpunk 2077 and Edgerunners. So if CDPR didn't understand Cyberpunk, it mean that Mike didn't too... It's a bit odd for the creator himself :D

*Cyberpunk from Mike :
1988 (Cyberpunk 2013)
1990 (Cyberpunk 2020)
2005 (Cyberpunk V3.0)
2020 (Cyberpunk RED)
 
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The point i try to make is this. Be it the game or the Edgerunner series. If the entire plot goes towards the "it is all hopeless" the writer or producer or whoever is responsible for it hasn't understood what the cyberpunk genre even is.
We can only observe stories through expendable protagonists so many times before it becomes cliché, especially concerning stories sharing the same universe. If forthcoming Cyberpunk (Mike's RPG) media carry on in the same manner it would be easy to start feeling despondent about the whole thing.

Though Cyberpunk can be about many things, the cautionary tale is overdone at this point. For me, anyway.
 
We can only observe stories through expendable protagonists so many times before it becomes cliché, especially concerning stories sharing the same universe. If forthcoming Cyberpunk (Mike's RPG) media carry on in the same manner it would be easy to start feeling despondent about the whole thing.

Though Cyberpunk can be about many things, the cautionary tale is overdone at this point. For me, anyway.
It's sort of a core theme of the genre. Arguing for less fatalism in cyberpunk is like arguing for fewer kissing scenes romances. Or fewer field battle scenes in fantasies.

The most salient feature of the cyberpunk genre is the terrible cost of becoming too dependent on technology and illusion. It's not that every character has to die at the end, but it can't end well. That's not what cyberpunk is.

I think what people want is something new. Something like a future where man and machine exist in a balance that makes them more than the sum of their parts. A slightly grittier version of Star Trek, basically. Less cyberpunk and more cyberpug...
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But, more seriously, forays into this zone have already been taken: Bicentennial Man, Her, even the ending to the original Ghost in the Shell is fairly optimistic...if in a still haunting way. It's more than possible to tell such stories, sure, but I don't think it works as well. And it's not possible to have a happy ending without sacrifice and still remain thematically significant in any literary sense. That would be kind of the equivalent of making an after-school special then simply setting it in Night City...just 'cuz. Happy ending; cool lights and gunfights, too.
 
Huge mistake
Given that the anime has renewed the interest in the game, it is indeed a mistake not to make more from that point of view. The could make an anthology series with different characters and even settings for every season to keep the show fresh. But one thing is certain: it would need better writing.
 
On topic, I thought tne ending in Edgerunners was appropriate, even though the show heavily overused anime tropes. Kind of wished it tried something else like the original Aeon Flux shorts; a series of one-shots where a Merc meets a sticky end (most of the time).

But, more seriously, forays into this zone have already been taken: Bicentennial Man, Her, even the ending to the original Ghost in the Shell is fairly optimistic...if in a still haunting way. It's more than possible to tell such stories, sure, but I don't think it works as well. And it's not possible to have a happy ending without sacrifice and still remain thematically significant in any literary sense. That would be kind of the equivalent of making an after-school special then simply setting it in Night City...just 'cuz. Happy ending; cool lights and gunfights, too.

I think most prominent examples in the genre have bittersweet endings (hopefully no-one seriously wants a Saturday morning kids show happy ending, ever), I'd argue it's possible to remain thematically satisfying without having the protagonist kick the bucket every time, so all I hope is that further instalments don't become predictable that way. Cyberpunk has strong themes of transformation and transhumanism too, but that may be overdone at this point as well because it's used in RoboCop through to Ghost in the Shell and beyond.

Bit disappointed no animators on youtube have done the Saturday Morning Cyberpunk thing now...
 
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