Cyberpunk Edgerunners - No plans for 2nd Season

[GrimReaper801]

Maybe insane wasn't the best word, "extreme" perhaps. Either way I don't think it's intended as a trope. It just highlights the lengths average ppl have to go and the great cost it requires to make change.

Not sure why you think it's a trope or that the characters aren't presented as intelligent. Whether it's Silverhand, Mr Robot or Black Sails, all those characters are intelligent. Righteousness on the other hand is subjective.

This.

Indeed, extreme is a far better description of Johnny's methods. Johnny isn't insane. In fact, I'd argue he's very sane and acutely aware of the realities of CP's world. Far more than your average Night City resident. He's an extreme product of the world he lives in, but he is far from insane.

 

[The_Blacks]

This.

Indeed, extreme is a far better description of Johnny's methods. Johnny isn't insane. In fact, I'd argue he's very sane and acutely aware of the realities of CP's world. Far more than your average Night City resident. He's an extreme product of the world he lives in, but he is far from insane.

I definitely prefer to see him that way too.

Post automatically merged: Nov 19, 2022

Maybe insane wasn't the best word, "extreme" perhaps. Either way I don't think it's intended as a trope. It just highlights the lengths average ppl have to go and the great cost it requires to make change.

Not sure why you think it's a trope or that the characters aren't presented as intelligent. Whether it's Silverhand, Mr Robot or Black Sails, all those characters are intelligent. Righteousness on the other hand is subjective.

I don't mean that the characters lack intelligence, but that these revolutionaries are often portrayed as both intelligent yet insane. I use Flint precisely as an example of the opposite: devilishly smart and not insane at all, but driven by a very specific purpose, to rebel against and fight the system that ruined his life. In his case, the righteousness of his endeavor is not subjective in the slightest (I'd add that neither is Johnny's).

It just disappointed me that Elliot from Mr Robot had a double personality ala Tyler Durden that essentially made him do what he does. I'd have preferred that it came all from him rather than some mental illness.

I also dislike that from Arcane: that the only person who is effectively fighting an oppressive system is a crazy psycho, thus negating the entire point.

Also in Arcane there's Silco, who wants to lead a revolution to fight the oppressors but he himself is a backstabbing SOB who hurts his own people he claims to fight for, YET AGAIN negating the entire fucking point of it all.

I definitely wanna see Johnny as more of a Flint than a Silco/Jinx.

Post automatically merged: Nov 19, 2022

And on the other hand, you somewhat have to be a little insane in order to start an uprising.

I'd rather call that being fearless/brave.

 

[SigilFey]

This is another trope I dislike strongly: that the people fighting an oppressive system have to be "insane".

Maybe insane wasn't the best word, "extreme" perhaps.

I was referring to Johnny, not V. Johnny wanted to plant a nuclear weapon on a timer and set it off in the middle of a metropolized area in order to fight a concept. That's nuts. V's fine.

 

[The_Blacks]

I was referring to Johnny, not V. Johnny wanted to plant a nuclear weapon on a timer and set it off in the middle of a metropolized area in order to fight a concept. That's nuts. V's fine.

Sheesh, a worthy revolutionary would be targeting only the corpos, not normal people. He is, after all, supposed to be fighting precisely for the people . Even Tyler Durden wanted to bomb and empty building (Tyler, whoever, is a prime example of crazy revolutionary as he is not even a person but a split personality ).

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I was referring to Johnny, not V. Johnny wanted to plant a nuclear weapon on a timer and set it off in the middle of a metropolized area in order to fight a concept. That's nuts. V's fine.

Sheesh, a worthy revolutionary would be targeting only the corpos, not normal people. He is, after all, supposed to be fighting precisely for the people

Just some details :
Johnny planned (or maybe more accurate to say, Militech) to detonate a "very small" nuclear bomb, which was supposed to explode in the basement of the tower where the access point to Mikoshi is. Explosion that was supposed to destroy the underground complex and cause the tower to collapse, "only".
But for "unknow" reasons (Araska's reasons^^), the explosion was "massive" and happened around the 30th floors. Above all, nor Arasaka nor Nity City authorities decided to evacuate people who were close/near the tower (everything is under control, it's fine...). Even if the alert message broadcasted by Murphy clearly announced a terrorist act and advised everyone to evacuate as fast as possible.

On a side note, it's exactly what we saw in Johnny memories, when he's evacuated and look above him. "His" nuke exploded in the middle of the tower causing almost no damage... Then way, way later when he's on the ship, another massive explosion destroy the neighborhood.

Johnny... the ideal culprit. A dead can't defend himself

 

[AvarageEnjoyer]

Even Tyler Durden wanted to bomb and empty building (Tyler, whoever, is a prime example of crazy revolutionary as he is not even a person but a split personality ).

To be completely-completely fair, book Tyler was a massive psycho and didn't shy away from killing people. I'm not even sure whether the building was even empty.
Movie version is much more redeemable in that regard.

 

[SeloSwe]

yea

 

[Cloud7]

A main character dying doesn't mean no hope. That would be like watching Cowboy Bebop and suggesting it's not a story about hope and redemption because Spike knew he would die or dies in the end. Or Breaking Bad because Walter was dying and does die in the end. I think what you have trouble with is understanding the legacy of these characters. Some of the most notable names in history are men and women who gave their life for a cause greater than themselves. That is something that gives others hope so I disagree with your definition of what hope is supposed to be.

V wasn't doing anything with his/her life when we met them, just a corporate lacky. By the end night city was changed forever and it was by your hand. Even if V doesn't survive, the ppl you helped along the way have and they can build on that in future games.

As for telling the same story and only slightly changing the outcome. That's how change happens, if that's what V's legacy leads to and he's a martyr for the movement that eventually takes down Arasaka then I'll be happy.

A quote from one of the best written shows in the past decade...Black Sails
"no one changes the world all at once"

You'd probably hate the way that series ends as well lol

You can disagree with my definition of what hope is supposed to be. But following your own logic the entire story of V therefore is pointless. Because V literally tried the same thing Johnny did and regardless the ending Arasaka is still the major power house it always has been. People stil get killed left and right and everyone is lying and trying to crawl on top on a pile of corpses only to find out they will add to the pile.

V changed literally nothing for night city. Yes a few pieces here and there and thats about it. Johnny nuked an entire building to the ground and changed also absolutely zero. Quite the opposite. Arasaka is now even more aggressive on what they do.

For V being a martyr you would have to change the endings drastically to have impact on the world of night city or cyberpunk in general.

I have no problem with an ending where the main character dies. Breaking Bad is a good example. However they don't give the illusion of a cure only to advance the story. We know as audience very fast that nothing will safe walter. V chases this hope only to find out in the end there is none. Not for V and not for Night City and sure as hell not for Arasaka.

The issue i have most is that this has nothing to do with the cyberpunk genre as that genre in and of itself is about a society with low life standarfs but high tech lifestyle. Alot of movies and books exist in the cyberpunk genre to give examples of that. Alita Battle Angel is one of the best i have seen so far.
But hell even FF7 is in the cyberpunk genre.

I am not talking about happy endings with sunshine as that would defeat the purpose of the genre. Thats not the point. But they either have a negative or bittersweet ending for the protagonist in their respective storyline.

Blade Runner has a bittersweet ending. Both the old and the new movie. It ain't hopeless nor pointless
Alita Battle Angel has a bittersweet ending. But it ain't hopeless nor pointless.
FF7 also has a bittersweet ending and the group lost alot during their stories. Yet it isn't hopeless nor pointless.
Robocop has neither. It is a continuing nightmare for the protagonist to know who he was and what he became to continue for god knows how long. Yet it is neither hopeless not pointless.

And the list could go on. I have a problem with a story i get presented that leaves me either depressed or question the very actions of the protagonist to the point i can't see a reason or a point for doing any of that.

Sorry for my bad english i came directly from work when writing this and i am tired and english is not my native language.

Ofc you can see that different. But to me the cyberpunk genre is not about

 

[tru3story]

If they'd make it into sort of like anthology series - that would keep me interested!
Explored as many different storylines within the universe that would pay homage to the game itself of course and not too far off.
Yeah, I'd like that!

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

You can disagree with my definition of what hope is supposed to be. But following your own logic the entire story of V therefore is pointless. Because V literally tried the same thing Johnny did and regardless the ending Arasaka is still the major power house it always has been. People stil get killed left and right and everyone is lying and trying to crawl on top on a pile of corpses only to find out they will add to the pile.

V changed literally nothing for night city. Yes a few pieces here and there and thats about it. Johnny nuked an entire building to the ground and changed also absolutely zero. Quite the opposite. Arasaka is now even more aggressive on what they do.

For V being a martyr you would have to change the endings drastically to have impact on the world of night city or cyberpunk in general.

I have no problem with an ending where the main character dies. Breaking Bad is a good example. However they don't give the illusion of a cure only to advance the story. We know as audience very fast that nothing will safe walter. V chases this hope only to find out in the end there is none. Not for V and not for Night City and sure as hell not for Arasaka.

The issue i have most is that this has nothing to do with the cyberpunk genre as that genre in and of itself is about a society with low life standarfs but high tech lifestyle. Alot of movies and books exist in the cyberpunk genre to give examples of that. Alita Battle Angel is one of the best i have seen so far.
But hell even FF7 is in the cyberpunk genre.

I am not talking about happy endings with sunshine as that would defeat the purpose of the genre. Thats not the point. But they either have a negative or bittersweet ending for the protagonist in their respective storyline.

Blade Runner has a bittersweet ending. Both the old and the new movie. It ain't hopeless nor pointless
Alita Battle Angel has a bittersweet ending. But it ain't hopeless nor pointless.
FF7 also has a bittersweet ending and the group lost alot during their stories. Yet it isn't hopeless nor pointless.
Robocop has neither. It is a continuing nightmare for the protagonist to know who he was and what he became to continue for god knows how long. Yet it is neither hopeless not pointless.

And the list could go on. I have a problem with a story i get presented that leaves me either depressed or question the very actions of the protagonist to the point i can't see a reason or a point for doing any of that.

Sorry for my bad english i came directly from work when writing this and i am tired and english is not my native language.

Ofc you can see that different. But to me the cyberpunk genre is not about

I would summarize my wish for how V's story came to an end as the following:
Original Fallout 3 ending and played as purely a lone wanderer.

 

[Kid_SixXx]

Johnny Silverhand is the epitome of the Rockerboy. Do not mistake his passion for insanity. He knows exactly what he's doing and he is committed to achieving his goals at any cost... including V.

He's not crazy; he's determined. Something a good deal more dangerous than crazy in the apathetic climate of the setting. The relative listlessness of society makes Johnny look like a zealot by comparison.

 

[Deventh]

They need another animated series like this imho. Shame to just do 1 season after such a success.

 

[Kid_SixXx]

They need another animated series like this imho. Shame to just do 1 season after such a success.

It is my hope that there is a season covering each lifepath. We've got David repping the Street Kid, so we've got a Nomad and ex-Corpo tale to go.

I would expect the Corpo story to be just as tragic (if not more tragic) than David's saga, so perhaps the Nomad story can have a more semisweet ending?

I'd also like to see if Trigger could do something with Dark Horse Comics' Trauma Team story even though it bears uncomfortable similarities to the plots of The Raid: Redemption and Dredd.

 

[ShinAkira00]

It is my hope that there is a season covering each lifepath. We've got David repping the Street Kid, so we've got a Nomad and ex-Corpo tale to go.

I would expect the Corpo story to be just as tragic (if not more tragic) than David's saga, so perhaps the Nomad story can have a more semisweet ending?

I'd also like to see if Trigger could do something with Dark Horse Comics' Trauma Team story even though it bears uncomfortable similarities to the plots of The Raid: Redemption and Dredd.

That sounds pretty good. I've always believed they should have a somewhat distinctive story for each life path. They start that way in the game but after the prologue everything just becomes the same.
If they do it in anime form that could be really interesting but definitely not with Trigger. That's a big no for me. A corpo story at the very least needs to have a more serious, dramatic tone and not overly comical and exaggerated.

 

[SigilFey]

Johnny Silverhand is the epitome of the Rockerboy. Do not mistake his passion for insanity. He knows exactly what he's doing and he is committed to achieving his goals at any cost... including V.

He's not crazy; he's determined. Something a good deal more dangerous than crazy in the apathetic climate of the setting. The relative listlessness of society makes Johnny look like a zealot by comparison.

He's the definition of crazy. He decides that if he can't get people to understand how corrupt the megacorporations are, then he'll set off a tactical nuclear weapon in the center of one of the few remaining population centers on the planet to take down a global institution in one blow. He also thinks that he can, somehow, single-handedly change the world. Then, the lunatic actually goes off and does it, killing millions of the same sort of people that he's trying to save for no practical purpose aside from...proving a point.

Notice, that Arasaka does not collapse. It remains the most powerful megacorporation on the planet. Notice how the world does not change after the nuke goes off. Instead, it continues on as if more or less nothing happened. In fact, so few people knew or cared enough about what Johnny was doing that all they really did was spraypaint "Where's Johnny?" all over town.

Millions of men, women, and children killed, maimed, or wounded...for nothing...basically. And he still thinks he's right. That he didn't go too far. This is literally the definition of a man who wants to watch the world burn. He says so in his own words. This is a prime example of crazy. Insane. Nuts. Bats in the belfry. Cukoo. Completely off his @#$%!ng rocker.

_______________


Then he becomes a part of V. And the way it looks, V's more rational mind starts to "infect" Johnny. It tames him a bit. Brings him back down to earth. I think we're meant to see that V starts giving Johnny something like hope and compassion back. Johnny fights it, and arguably V starts gaining some of Johnny's iron will and uncompromising nature. The willingness to go to, well, insane lengths to get things done. I'd argue that the different pathways through the game are indicative of the two finding a balance. Incredible willpower balanced with some level of compassion and humanity. More than the sum of their parts.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

He's the definition of crazy. He decides that if he can't get people to understand how corrupt the megacorporations are, then he'll set off a tactical nuclear weapon in the center of one of the few remaining population centers on the planet to take down a global institution in one blow. He also thinks that he can, somehow, single-handedly change the world. Then, the lunatic actually goes off and does it, killing millions of the same sort of people that he's trying to save for no practical purpose aside from...proving a point.

Notice, that Arasaka does not collapse. It remains the most powerful megacorporation on the planet. Notice how the world does not change after the nuke goes off. Instead, it continues on as if more or less nothing happened. In fact, so few people knew or cared enough about what Johnny was doing that all they really did was spraypaint "Where's Johnny?" all over town.

Millions of men, women, and children killed, maimed, or wounded...for nothing...basically. And he still thinks he's right. That he didn't go too far. This is literally the definition of a man who wants to watch the world burn. He says so in his own words. This is a prime example of crazy. Insane. Nuts. Bats in the belfry. Cukoo. Completely off his @#$%!ng rocker.

To be honest, it looks more or less like Arasaka propaganda...

Because Johnny and Militech's plan was destroying an empty tower (or almost empty). Hence the warning message diffused on all frequencies and a nuke just powerful enough to explode in the basement, detroying the tower foundations and make it fall, not more. The "big" nuke which blowed up the city center and killed hundreds/thousands people wasn't his one... If the second nuke didn't explode, there were almost no death

Johnny's nuke explosion (30th floors)

Second nuke explosion, way bigger and way later... (Arasaka had time to transport Johnny outside of Night City on the ship)

Just my opinion, but Johnny was not the crazy terrorist which want change the world by killing thousands innoncents for no reason that Arasaka wants us to believe. Yeah, he want to change the world. Yeah, he's very "extrem". Yeah, he will kill poeple to try to reach his goal, but only those who stand in his way, who are mainly "soldier" (so not "innocent" poeple).

Besides, I imagine Arasaka could also say that David was just a crazy cyberpsycho who assaulted the tower just for the sake of killing corpos with no reason... Whereas like Johnny, it was simply to save his girlfriend.

 

[ShinAkira00]

He's the definition of crazy. He decides that if he can't get people to understand how corrupt the megacorporations are, then he'll set off a tactical nuclear weapon in the center of one of the few remaining population centers on the planet to take down a global institution in one blow. He also thinks that he can, somehow, single-handedly change the world. Then, the lunatic actually goes off and does it, killing millions of the same sort of people that he's trying to save for no practical purpose aside from...proving a point.

Notice, that Arasaka does not collapse. It remains the most powerful megacorporation on the planet. Notice how the world does not change after the nuke goes off. Instead, it continues on as if more or less nothing happened. In fact, so few people knew or cared enough about what Johnny was doing that all they really did was spraypaint "Where's Johnny?" all over town.

Millions of men, women, and children killed, maimed, or wounded...for nothing...basically. And he still thinks he's right. That he didn't go too far. This is literally the definition of a man who wants to watch the world burn. He says so in his own words. This is a prime example of crazy. Insane. Nuts. Bats in the belfry. Cukoo. Completely off his @#$%!ng rocker.

_______________


Then he becomes a part of V. And the way it looks, V's more rational mind starts to "infect" Johnny. It tames him a bit. Brings him back down to earth. I think we're meant to see that V starts giving Johnny something like hope and compassion back. Johnny fights it, and arguably V starts gaining some of Johnny's iron will and uncompromising nature. The willingness to go to, well, insane lengths to get things done. I'd argue that the different pathways through the game are indicative of the two finding a balance. Incredible willpower balanced with some level of compassion and humanity. More than the sum of their parts.

To be fair, I don't think Johnny's intention was to harm anyone except Arasaka. Sure it doesn't mean he's not responsible but if this was an action film and a retired veteran went after corrupt companies/government it would be seen as heroic.
Johnny recognizes that night city has infected everyone and its hard to argue against that. There are no good people there, not even V. What do you do when the majority become slaves to the corruption or more importantly do you try to save people who don't want to be saved.
I don't believe Johnny is crazy and extreme or not his actions did have an impact because ppl started asking questions. Of course even with V's help we just removed one head from the dragon and two grew in its place but we now know the full scale of the threat.

Johnny's didn't really have a team (well he had one but didn't tell them anything) and neither did V. They each tried to take on Arasaka themselves. It would be good if in the next game you can learn from their mistake and recruit a team. Maybe even old acquaintances of V and Johnny. Fingers crossed Bug is still alive

 

[SigilFey]

To be honest, it looks more or less like Arasaka propaganda...

Don't worry! I can differentiate between different varieties of corruption.

Because Johnny and Militech's plan was destroying an empty tower (or almost empty). Hence the warning message diffused on all frequencies and a nuke just powerful enough to explode in the basement, detroying the tower foundations and make it fall, not more. The "big" nuke which blowed up the city center and killed hundreds/thousands people wasn't his one... If the second nuke didn't explode, there were almost no death

Johnny's nuke explosion (30th floors)

Second nuke explosion, way bigger and way later... (Arasaka had time to transport Johnny outside of Night City on the ship)

Just my opinion, but Johnny was not the crazy terrorist which want change the world by killing thousands innoncents for no reason that Arasaka wants us to believe. Yeah, he want to change the world. Yeah, he's very "extrem". Yeah, he will kill poeple to try to reach his goal, but only those who stand in his way, who are mainly "soldier" (so not "innocent" poeple).

Besides, I imagine Arasaka could also say that David was just a crazy cyberpsycho who assaulted the tower just for the sake of killing corpos with no reason... Whereas like Johnny, it was simply to save his girlfriend.

To be fair, I don't think Johnny's intention was to harm anyone except Arasaka. Sure it doesn't mean he's not responsible but if this was an action film and a retired veteran went after corrupt companies/government it would be seen as heroic.
Johnny recognizes that night city has infected everyone and its hard to argue against that. There are no good people there, not even V. What do you do when the majority become slaves to the corruption or more importantly do you try to save people who don't want to be saved.
I don't believe Johnny is crazy and extreme or not his actions did have an impact because ppl started asking questions. Of course even with V's help we just removed one head from the dragon and two grew in its place but we now know the full scale of the threat.

Johnny's didn't really have a team (well he had one but didn't tell them anything) and neither did V. They each tried to take on Arasaka themselves. It would be good if in the next game you can learn from their mistake and recruit a team. Maybe even old acquaintances of V and Johnny. Fingers crossed Bug is still alive

And no -- I don't think that Johnny wanted to kill mass numbers of people or detonate the bomb the way it happened. He says so himself on the ship after they capture him.

Here's the thing:

Go ahead and have somebody talk to a police officer, military officer, government official, teacher, social worker, medical professional, etc. (anyone professionally in charge of the well-being of others) and say the following:

"Here's my plan to make some sweeping changes to our society. Major corporations are corrupt. I'm going to get my hands on a tactical nuclear weapon, and I'm going to use it to destroy a corporate-owned skyscraper in the middle of one of my own country's urban centers. I'm going to assemble a team of professional criminals, shoot my way in, get past their security, and put the nuke in an elevator. We're then going to send the elevator crashing down into the sub-basement, where the nuclear blast will be more or less contained, but It will bring the entire building down. I'm also going to upload a major virus (which is basically what Alt is at that point) to the internet, where it will potentially affect everything online. Even though we're likely to die in the process, my team and I are doing this. Because if we can't reason with these corporations, we have to burn them to the ground. It's worth the price if something goes wrong. Better the entire world burn than continue on the way it is."

See how far it goes before they call that person "absolutely, @#$%!ng insane."

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Here's the thing:

Go ahead and have somebody talk to a police officer, military officer, government official, teacher, social worker, medical professional, etc. (anyone professionally in charge of the well-being of others) and say the following:

"Here's my plan to make some sweeping changes to our society. Major corporations are corrupt. I'm going to get my hands on a tactical nuclear weapon, and I'm going to use it to destroy a corporate-owned skyscraper in the middle of one of my own country's urban centers. I'm going to assemble a team of professional criminals, shoot my way in, get past their security, and put the nuke in an elevator. We're then going to send the elevator crashing down into the sub-basement, where the nuclear blast will be more or less contained, but It will bring the entire building down. I'm also going to upload a major virus (which is basically what Alt is at that point) to the internet, where it will potentially affect everything online. Even though we're likely to die in the process, my team and I are doing this. Because if we can't reason with these corporations, we have to burn them to the ground. It's worth the price if something goes wrong. Better the entire world burn than continue on the way it is."

See how far it goes before they call that person "absolutely, @#$%!ng insane."

Yeah said like that, it's a "crazy" plan
But it's against a corporation (let's say against a man, because Saburo is Arasaka), which kill people just for "buziness sake" (like in the corpo intro), which incitate, make and finance wars, which is ready to nuke Night City with all its inhabitants to not let the Relic fall in westerner hands,...
In a world where corporation were, are and will be all powerful, regular ways to try to change "things" are doomed to fail anyway. Try to change things without make blood flow is also doomed to fail. Trying to change things in less crazy ways would be like throwing stones at a reinforced concrete wall hoping that with luck, it could collapse on day...
I means, even Yorinobu (like he said in he Devil, bombs didn't change anything) also end to do "crazy" things to try to change the world... i.e killing his own father !

And important I thing, Johnny consider it as a "war" against the forces of entropy. So during wars, innocent dies anyway. You don't beat the devil sitting by praying. If you want to change things, you have to get your hands (and your soul) dirty and probably make collateral victims. It's no excuse, but it can justify a bit the extreme actions that he did.

On a side note, Johnny (and Murphy) doesn't uploaded a "major virus" on the global network. It's just a malware which target the Arasaka subnet to freeying Alt (hence the name "Liberator" and the need to upload it on an access point inside the tower).

 

[AlienSpaceBats]

Just my opinion, but Johnny was not the crazy terrorist which want change the world by killing thousands innoncents for no reason that Arasaka wants us to believe.

"Here's my plan to make some sweeping changes to our society. Major corporations are corrupt. I'm going to get my hands on a tactical nuclear weapon, and I'm going to use it to destroy a corporate-owned skyscraper in the middle of one of my own country's urban centers. I'm going to assemble a team of professional criminals, shoot my way in, get past their security, and put the nuke in an elevator. We're then going to send the elevator crashing down into the sub-basement, where the nuclear blast will be more or less contained, but It will bring the entire building down. I'm also going to upload a major virus (which is basically what Alt is at that point) to the internet, where it will potentially affect everything online. Even though we're likely to die in the process, my team and I are doing this. Because if we can't reason with these corporations, we have to burn them to the ground. It's worth the price if something goes wrong. Better the entire world burn than continue on the way it is."

One of the things I love about the game is how the Silverhand engram is presented. I mean, what is he, exactly? His version of the AHQ bombing bears little resemblance to what actually happened. If we take Johnny's engram at his word, he's absolutely an extremist who acquired a tactical nuke and led a team into Arasaka Tower, but this all happened during the 4th Corporate, and he's really taking credit for Militech.