Animal, CDPR more or less said themselves that they are going this route and that's why (I assume) a lot of people here endorse it. It may seem like blasphemy at first but if you read the interview it hard not to agree with them and root for a CP revival. It is still going to be cyberpunk, still going to be influenced by Gibson and Bladerunner and everything else we love. We will however probably see a few changes to make the game more relevant like holographics phasing out neon or something but the only hint to these changes we have are the concept art and cinematic trailer so to me it's a little early to say the art direction's not going your way. We haven't even seen a single screenshot. I understand your concerns but I'd have a little more faith. At least until we see more of night city. Based on everything I've read so far on what's going on in the devs heads I'd be very surprised if this IP isn't as big a pillar in the established genre as the many beloved foundational masterpieces that are CDPR's inspiration.
Look like animal wants the gaming equivalent to a harlequin novel, with religious adherance to outdated guidelines.
"Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep", the novel by Philip K. Dick, was published in 1968. "Blade Runner" is the movie adaptation of that book. Cyberpunk, (as a genre,) did not start in the 80's, but that is merely when it became popular. William Gibson wrote "Neuromancer" which was published in 1984, yet that is hailed as 'the' iconic Cyberpunk work. Hell, you could argue that H. G. Well's novel, "1984", was the precursor of Cyberpunk. It was certainly the dawn of the term "Big Brother" as a reference to the concept of the state monitoring it's citizens. It was a dystopian future, to be certain, and it was written way back on 1949!
Mike did indeed state that "Cyberpunk is Blade Runner". He also stated that "It's rain wet streets." He was listing influential sources for the rpg. Cyberpunk, (the rpg,) is not literally Blade Runner.
Yes, Cyberpunk, (as a genre,) originated in the west, but it spread. Elements of it can be seen all over the world, east and west.
And finally, as previously stated, CDPr and Mr. Pondsmith have both stated that the image and look of the Cyberpunk game world will evolve and modernise. We, (the community,) have assumed nothing. It would be ridiculous to expect 60 years of style and fashion stagnation, especially in the Cyberpunk setting. Look at music; as a genre, 'metal' is pretty iconic within the Cyberpunk game setting. Yet look how metal as a genre has evolved in the last 30 years. Would you really expect anything less from an entire world?
I recommend that if you wish to take such an ardant stand on something, you need to be sure you have done your homework thoroughly.
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This is great. I heartily approve. We ought to stick it somewhere obvious.
I'm pretty sure CDPR will do their own take on the art and style, as we saw in the trailer, with enough 80s and CP2020 references to make it clear where the inspiration was.
Hi Dekkarius. I see where you are coming from, and I hope I didn't piss off any devs, I was quite critical of the cinematic teaser and felt bad about that. I'm not really interested in the game from a futurologist perspective, for me the attachment to this genre is romantic. Future 80's is the setting where Total Recall took place, RoboCop, Alien, so many others. A neon drenched cyber dream/nightmare of powerful corporations screwing people over, and a new lower class of people that don't have access to the technology. If they devs wanted to they could make the game look like Aeon Flux and have all the music be R&B, thankfully that's not the case. My point is a setting needed to be chosen and future 80's is close many people's hearts.
I can see where you ate coming from, and to a certain extent I agree. But if the game was being kept in that 80's dark future image, then it would be 2020, not 2077.
Have you taken the opportunity to watch the announcement videos on YouTube? I know at least one of them shows Mike and the guy from CDPR explaining why the date of 2077 and the move beyond the 80's style were chosen.
Just like to point out that Neuromancer came out in 1984, 2 years after Blade Runner, and that ive read all of William Gibson books from Neuromancer to Pattern Recognition. Also cyberpunk, its art started with Blade Runner and that K Philip DIcks book couldnt possibly predict neon signs and punk rock haircuts and i doubt his description of the world looked anything like Blade Runner.
Fragments of a Hologram Rose. Johnny Mnemonic. If you read Gibson, you know what these are and how they were written before Blade Runner. Years before BR. If you thought about it, you'd probably realise Gibson was writing Neuromancer well before Blade Runner came out. Neuromancer was the novel follow-up to his short stories in the same world and vein, created and written before Scott was interested in Do Androids Dream.
As well as Sterling, Rucker, Williams - that whole era was a time of Cyberpunk influences and productions. Sometimes they followed one another, sometimes they were developed independently and appeared roughly the same time.
As for PKD Androids Dream, it's pretty close. Decaying cities, bounty hunter cop, replicant, flying cars, crumbling society - yeah. Scott took his inspiration from Dick, not the other way around.
This is a bit of a challenge for CDPR - the 70s and 80s had a particular vibe - a response to the golden age science fiction gave us the dystopias in the late 70s and early 80s fiction such as cyberpunk. We have had no such "golden age"and the subsequent urge of authors and directors to contrast the glowing happy science fiction with a grittier, more realistic view.
We have had that view for years.
So what I'm saying is that much of the charm and excitement of Cyberpunk came from that contrast at the time. The fiction harked back to Orwell, Huxley, Pynchon, Lang. After years of Asimov, Heinlein, Niven, Pournelle, Norton and so on, it was fresh! Excting! It had a dark zesty zing! Added to the growing disenchantment with big business and some edgy neon and chrome, it was very hot.
Recapturing that or creating it anew for 2015 is going to be quite the challenge and I'm not sure they would be successful if they simply tried to recreate a past era and mind set. Wiser, probably, to look at where we are now and play off that, while shooting for the same cyberpunk ethos of Information wants to be Free, Style over Substance and Always Break the Rules.
As well as Sterling, Rucker, Williams - that whole era was a time of Cyberpunk influences and productions. Sometimes they followed one another, sometimes they were developed independently and appeared roughly the same time.
As for PKD Androids Dream, it's pretty close. Decaying cities, bounty hunter cop, replicant, flying cars, crumbling society - yeah. Scott took his inspiration from Dick, not the other way around.
This is a bit of a challenge for CDPR - the 70s and 80s had a particular vibe - a response to the golden age science fiction gave us the dystopias in the late 70s and early 80s fiction such as cyberpunk. We have had no such "golden age"and the subsequent urge of authors and directors to contrast the glowing happy science fiction with a grittier, more realistic view.
We have had that view for years.
So what I'm saying is that much of the charm and excitement of Cyberpunk came from that contrast at the time. The fiction harked back to Orwell, Huxley, Pynchon, Lang. After years of Asimov, Heinlein, Niven, Pournelle, Norton and so on, it was fresh! Excting! It had a dark zesty zing! Added to the growing disenchantment with big business and some edgy neon and chrome, it was very hot.
Recapturing that or creating it anew for 2015 is going to be quite the challenge and I'm not sure they would be successful if they simply tried to recreate a past era and mind set. Wiser, probably, to look at where we are now and play off that, while shooting for the same cyberpunk ethos of Information wants to be Free, Style over Substance and Always Break the Rules.
Then I suggest you read it, because I have and his description is actually not far off. That and it's a damn good book, as is 'A Scanner Darkly' which has a decidedly late 80's/early 90's feel to it, even though it was published in 1977.
Oh, and Neon Signs were around in the 1920's.
Terminal Man is certainly a solid contender for the first Cyberpunk movie, and that came out in 1974. The other contender is 'Welt am Draht', ('World on Fire',) though its reach was certainly less far reaching. 'Burst City' is a Japanese film released in 1982, (almost at the same time as Blade Runner,) about the punk bands and culture in Japan. Then of course there is Tron, which also came out in 1982. Both of those films have key elements of Cyberpunk and yet they could not have taken any artistic inspiration from Blade Runner. How about 'Johnny Mnemonic' which was first a short story published in 1981!
And yes, Neuromancer did get published in 1984, but it was already being written before the realease of Blade Runner. It did not influence Gibson.
No one is saying that Blade Runner and it's imigary was not a major part in the aestetic of the Cyberpunk RPG. It is not, however, the sole artistic inspiration. So, again I say, do your homework.
As for Cyberpunk as a genre, well, Wikipedia's definition says it best:
Nowhere does it state any requirement for there to be aestetic influences of any kind, let alone of any timeframe.
Hmm, I thought this topic would be laid to rest after this interview:
They basically say CP was fresh and forward looking when it came out, so it doesn't make sense to do a retro game, but one that is fresh as well today.
They basically say CP was fresh and forward looking when it came out, so it doesn't make sense to do a retro game, but one that is fresh as well today.
Great post. I recently finished Deus Ex Human Revolution. I think that is a game that tried to marry the cyberpunk with a modern vision of the future, it was pretty good, there just isn't much warmth there.
I hope by doing something fresh isnt doing a Mass Effect/Halo clone, cause thats what i got from the trailer a bit. but i got my fingers crossed.
Play The Witcher series and see if they are a clone of anything.
fantasy and cyberpunk are two different animals, and im not a fan of fantasy/d&d. like i said i got my fingers crossed.
My point was that The Witcher series is CDPR's flagship product and it is pretty much unique. They are 110% into the Cyberpunk pnp game and it's setting and Mike Pondsmith has 110% faith in them to do it justice.
The potential of 2077 being a clone of anything, (let alone Halo or Mass Effect,) is a non-issue.
Take the blinkers off for 5 minutes.
I know that the game will be fantastic im not worried about that at all just had questions on its artstyle, also to be fair Mike would have let Atari do a cyberpunk game as well.
Well, several of us have tried to ease those worries, but the impression I am getting is that unless a Dev comes on here and specifically says they going to back track everything they have said about the style not being focused on the 80's retro look and that they are actually just going to make a 2020 game, you won't be happy.
As for the Atari comment, I don't know what you are basing that statement on.