Cyberpunk Roles - Which One Will You Be

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

Balance in SP?

Hell no. Morrowind was great because it lacked balance. It strengtened the narrative.

Even in MP, I would not care about balance this much. Justin Bieber is no match for Mike Tyson pretty much well, anywhere and making it otherwise would make it silly

 

[Sardukhar]

You need balance in terms of gameplay opportunity and validity. Otherwise, why not give the player God mode? Can't be hurt, kills everything, right from the get-go.

Morrowind got silly very fast. They took levitate and some of the most powerful potions out in following games for a reason.

Justin Bieber is easily a match for Tyson - give Bieber a gun, for a start, and tie Tyson down.

More significantly, Bieber as a character should be as fun and certainly as potent and valid a character to play in Cyberpunk 2077 as Tyson, or why include any Role other than just the one? WHy include any method other than just shooting?

Because it's fun to try different things and methods out, but it blasts immersion out of the water if you have to firefight all the time and you're playing a Fixer, forced to constantly re-load the game.

 

[Suhiira]

I agree balance is very important.
That's best achieved by insuring there's not only one way to achieve a games objectives.

If the only way to achieve objectives is to fight then the only viable character roles/builds are the combat specialist types.
If only persuade/convince/fast-talk then only the social type roles/builds.
If only theft then the "stealthy" roles/builds.

You have to design a game and the majority of the scenarios in it with multiple ways to accomplish them keeping in mind the skills available to each role/class and how good they're likely to be with them at that point in the game in mind.
It does no good at all to require maxed out lock-picking skills in the first 5 minutes of the game when anyone one with slightly better then average Body stat can break down the same door or anyone with a weapon can kill a nearby guard for the passkey.

That's why I say game-balance is more an art-form then merely statistical analysis.

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

Morrowind was unbalanced in the sense that a thief could steal 10s of thousands very early on if he knew where to look. Also, a glass dagger would net you something like 2500 quids vs. say 20 for an iron weapon.

But the key word here is if you knew where to look. It's natural after a first playthrough that you know the crooks and cranny of the game. If it's not possible, then it means grind is involved.

In an RPG, the most important part is immersion and narrative. In Morrowind, it was the sheer sense of freedom that you had that was very enjoyable and freedom means that the game is likely to be unbalanced and break somewhere.

In Oblivion and Skyrim, they did balance it so that the player had to work by doing the same things over and over. It's called grind. When you had a daedric weapon (whch was supposed to be a demonic/godly), it felt wimpy compared to Morrowind and it hurt the narrative. Also, in Oblivion, the monsters levelled up with the player, so that highway robbers had glass and ebony weapons. You were happy in Morrowind to find them, because they were rare but in Oblivion, well, it was just a common weapon.

I'm not even sure I buy the lethality of CP2020.

The natural inclination for most people is to take cover and fire like 50 cents. Most people miss. Gangsters surrender. Even if you get shot, I think that statistically, you are likely to survive.

You should have the opportunity to have the drop on someone. ArmA has many unbalanced elements because it tries to reflect reality. Warplanes are way OPed and rightfully so.

 

[Suhiira]

With each installment of the Elder Scroll series they've learned from their mistakes in the previous game. Just because it looks good on paper doesn't mean it'll play that way once people get their hands on it.
And other game companies, if they have half a brain, will learn from these mistakes and not repeat them. That unfortunately leads to the common, and fairly valid complaint that "all games are the same".
While some people find being able to break a game with over-powered character fun it's not a trait "role players" have. Power-gamers ... ohhhhhh yeah.
Role-players "win" a game by staying within their character concept and still achieving the games end-goals, even at times intentionally making sub-optimal choices because they're the choice that "fit" the character. A power-gamer will always make the "best" choice based on optimal results.
If your goal to playing a game is to amass the highest score, beat the game in the least amount of time, or solo what's designed to be a team/party game more power to you, but don't try to claim you're role-playing.

As to warplanes in ArmA ... given drones and maybe an eventual inclusion of "Excalibur" GPS guided artillery munitions you'll see a lot of under-employed pilots in the game. In reality they'd just be hitting targets beyond artillery range.

 

[Vincentdante]

I never saw the appeal in power gaming, when I can I like to role play. When I played Dragon Age origins I never took the combat skills that would win me the game easier, I took the skills that made sense to my characters fighting style which I imagined him having learned in his imaginary back story.

I think that's why I don't much care for Skyrim, too much happens in game that throws me out of the immersion. Morrowind handled immersion much better in my opinion which is why I prefer it.

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

They're not mistakes: Morrowind had a markedly different design philosophy from its spiritual successors. For example, you could kill any key character in the game unlike all later bethesda games.

If you force people to play one way, you stifle creativity. it simply completely removes the game aspect of it in favor of "role playing".
Google "Absolute Zero run" for DXHR. Is that "breaking the game" for you? No. That's cleverness. And that's hard to achieve.

If for example I play as a tricked out solo and you play as another solo albeit one with much lesser augs.
You push a crate on top of my character's head and he dies. That's clever not breaking the game.

Even for you: the "role player", what benefit is there to have "unrealistic" balance like in Oblivion?

In general, "if it stupid but it works, then it's not stupid" is a good rule of thumb.

I didn't say I wanted to see warplanes nescessarily. I'm just saying that OPed things should be included because that's simply the way things are in real life.
E.g. Mortars, .50 sniper rifles, ATGMs. It should be up to the opposing player to close the distance and deal with them,

 

[Sardukhar]

In general, "if it stupid but it works, then it's not stupid" is a good rule of thumb.

I didn't say I wanted to see warplanes nescessarily. I'm just saying that OPed things should be included because that's simply the way things are in real life.
E.g. Mortars, .50 sniper rifles, ATGMs. It should be up to the opposing player to close the distance and deal with them,

Oh, I'm totally and utterly fine with this, but you're way too focussed on just combat in terms of balance. 2077 is going to be an RPG, not a shooter, as you know. I have no issue with OP cyber,( I demand it!), OP Roles in certain situations and OP cleverness. In CP2077, we'll all be "role players".

The balance I want to see is that of Role opportunity and validity. I want the game balanced so that talking and shooting and hacking and sneaking all see equal opportunity for glory. I want some situations where one is better than the others, but each has a chance to shine.

 

[Suhiira]

What ...
*chokes and sobs a bit*
he ...
*forces it out by sheer willpower*
said.
*collapses, exhausted from the strain*

 

[ReptilePZ]

That's why there are RED Points. Much easier to show that you agree with someone that way.

 

[Sardukhar]

Yeah, but hatred means every time the moue cursor hovers over Give REDpoint to me, it actually flicks to the bookmark for Evisceration.

Weird huh?

 

[Harthwain]

I am thinking between Fixer and Solo.

Solo in a sense of being a killer for hire. Mainly stealth and deception, to avoid combat whenever possible - as there should be no points for killing anyone besides the target - but should be able to do well in combat if situation goes haywire. After all, there are no plans that don't have to be changed, so being able to improvise should be the key and being not good enough to not be able to do well in combat would somewhat defeat the point of being Solo.

Fixer as trader. Mainly non-combat role, mostly about connections and making money by trading. Someone who's just too useful to be at someone's gunpoint, even if will buy and sell anything to anyone. What's bigger irony than selling one's missiles to his worst enemies, for the right price? Or supplying someone who wants someone dead who - because of some silly misunderstanding - wants to see you dead?

 

[vongo.859]

Media and Fixer look the most appealing to me at the moment. I love being able to talk my way in and out of things, and those 2 roles look the best suited for it. Rockerboy might be an option too, but I'll have to see more before making up my mind.

 

[battlebattle]

i knew there would be something like this but i didnt know the details of each class.
netrunner for sure.

 

[Vincentdante]

Let's be honest if they include and differentiate the stories for each of the classes we will try all of them out anyway.

 

[Harthwain]

...and we will still have to decide which one to play as our first, second, third (and so on) choice. It'll have the biggest impact on the first experience with the game as well, so it is yet another reason to make all classes unique, regardless if players will play one or all of them.

 

[braindancer12]

...and we will still have to decide which one to play as our first, second, third (and so on) choice. It'll have the biggest impact on the first experience with the game as well, so it is yet another reason to make all classes unique, regardless if players will play one or all of them.

Indeed and if CD makes a really good job in creating roles, it wil be a hard decision for us which one we choose to start

 

[vongo.859]

I just hope the biggest difference between each class is how the scenarios pan out and maybe some minor quest lines. Each class should have perks that make it better in a certain area of expertise, but that shouldn't restrict players from mingling in roles of other classes.

Also I hope they give us multiple save files because i'm gonna be all over the place.

 

[Vincentdante]

...and we will still have to decide which one to play as our first, second, third (and so on) choice. It'll have the biggest impact on the first experience with the game as well, so it is yet another reason to make all classes unique, regardless if players will play one or all of them.

Oh yeah I hope I didn't imply otherwise. Someone had to point out the obvious though

 

[ImagoMortis]

Are each of the roles locked to use certain weapon types, or can each role use different weapons?
Any role that allows me to use explosives is the role for me.
Aside from that, I'd probably go with Techie. I like the idea of building machiens to do my bidding.