CyPu 2077 and the "Deus Ex Complex"

[Fitz-Oesterlen]

This is the first game I've been waiting for with such a hype in years. The first game that made me desire to buy a Collector Edition (which by the way seems impossible to find for pc in italy). I already know that the game will be impeccable in terms of atmosphere and aestethical.. but about the gameplay?
My 'fear' in terms of gameplay is having to deal with a 'deus ex complex'.
What's a 'deus ex complex' ? These are the words that I use to define a specific feeling I've always had while playing Deus Ex.
Personally, when I play rpgs with a big focus on the lore, I tend to play with the maximum lore-immersion, trying to become one with the character and its traits.
So what happens in Deus Ex is, that you have quite a big arsenal of lethal weapons and skills.... but I always felt like "hmm, this is not how it was supposed to go" everytime I killed an enemy or 'enemy' with weps or skills. This because Jensen is essentialy, a good man and someone who doesn't like to spread blood wherever he goes. And it would be fine to me, if not for the fact that you have all these stylish weapons and skills which feel like a 'toy you can't touch'. I 'solved' this complex by saving game, and loading it to enter Prague's bank and basically slaughter everyone! But this was basically trolling that could seriously harm the whole lore feeling of the game.
So my point is, will there be moments in the game where we'll feel totally legittamated in brutally slaughtering all our enemies or 'enemies' ?
I don't know, probably yes becaus this time we're going to create our own character. So there should be no room for the Deus Ex Complex, I hope so..

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

I have the same problem, but the good thing here is that they added the "pacifist mode" only after some feedback, so the game was intentionally created in a way you want to kill people. Probably devs just added "narcotic bullets" that behave like the normal ones except you don't see blood. I don't expect anything as complex as metal gear solid.

On the other hand, it's good they gave the choice, at least because you can spare some guy that "is not really bad, he's just between you and your goal", adding some narrative complexity to (few) quests = role play.

It's very important that the game doesn't reward your behaviour in any way: don't give me +10% EXP or better loot because I was a good kid, moral is not really a thing in real life, it shouldn't be in videogames as well. Otherwise the game designer is telling me how I should play, and this is something that should never happen in non-linear gameplay.

 

[sinister.sinner]

Miles Tost also said in the Rocket Beans interview (done in german), that there will be no "pacifist playthrough achievement". They don't encourage you to play a no killing run but if you really want to, you could and it will be harder to finish the game in that way.

 

[Fitz-Oesterlen]

I'm trusting cdpr so much on this new work of their. I hope they manage to create a game enviroment that doesn't make you feel guilty or -wrong- for using some beautiful weapon or cool skill the game gives you. I'm not saying I want to kill every living being I meet, but I want to feel the freedom of killing if my hand is longing to pull the trigger in a specific moment

 

[Guest 3847602]

Funny though, as Jensen in HR I always obliterate everyone in the tutorial and the mission where Faridah gets shot down. No regrets. Most of the time, I'm doing the same at Manufacturing Plant with Sanders and his group. Come to think of it, the only mission I feel I should be doing non-lethally each and every time is Panchaea.

 

[CyberBobber]

This is gonna be much better than Deus Ex. Maybe if we are lucky Deus Ex devs are willing to invest more into their game now. Or System Shock 3!

 

[lelxrv]

Lore frequently contradicts gameplay. In Witcher 3 you need to find Ciri as fast as possible, because she's on the run and is pursued by Wild Hunt. But you're able to engage in various side activity that has nothing to do with the main story where time is of essence. No impact on the outcome.

In Human Revolution Jenkins is a good guy, but you're able to brutally kill innocent hookers without any impact. And even the original Deus Ex has similar problems.

Or in Uncharted where main heroes kill thousands of people but the game pretends they're just normal guys.

This is the ultimate issue of story vs. gameplay.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

Lore frequently contradicts gameplay. In Witcher 3 you need to find Ciri as fast as possible, because she's on the run and is pursued by Wild Hunt. But you're able to engage in various side activity that has nothing to do with the main story where time is of essence. No impact on the outcome.

In Human Revolution Jenkins is a good guy, but you're able to brutally kill innocent hookers without any impact. And even the original Deus Ex has similar problems.

Or in Uncharted where main heroes kill thousands of people but the game pretends they're just normal guys.

This is the ultimate issue of story vs. gameplay.

this is true and it should be addressed by game directors when designing games, they just need a little attention to details. Problem is they couldn't care less.
In recent history of gaming, the only one I recall trying to give a good context to side quests is RDR2 but there weren't many, I must admit (still 80 hours of excellent if not perfect narrative in total, not bad for a linear story driven game).

GOW 2018 is good at that as well, but justification is quite cheap: "we do side quests so atreus learns how to fight and we get better loot which will make our journey easier". At least is not hypocritical and very similar to what the player is actually doing.

I think CP2077 has in street cred (=reputation) a good potential to justify side quests, but it's important that the narrative tells you when you should do them and when you should focus on main quest, same as RDR2.
IE. after dexter betrays V, CDPR's game director has 4 options:
A) give the revenge mission immediately and it's up to the player to decide to do it or to do some side quests first
B) make the player earn the revenge mission after gaining enough street cred (reputation) completing side quests
C) make the player earn the revenge mission after doing some main quests mission and side quests are totally optional (RDR2)
D) give the revenge mission immediately but it says "level 15" and V is level 10, so you need to do side quests until you reach level 15, pacing is seriously affected but it's very easy to implement (TW3)

My hope: B or C
My 2 cents: D