DAE find lack of blocking from human type enemies extremely immersion breaking?

[SoullessPhilosophy]

The question I'd ask (and it's a devil's advocate viewpoint): isnt some lowly peasant from the swamps parrying a witchers blow even more immersion breaking?

In my view it's no more immersion breaking than having that same peasant take a sword slash through the chest and shrug it off like it didn't happen. And I explicitly said "barely deflect", meaning they just barely manage to stop the sword from full on hitting them or the sword just grazes them or their armor.

Edit: also, I'll just throw this in for conversation: I think there should be dynamic level and enemy type based block and dodge percentages. So for example a peasant vs peasant match, I'd say each peasant has a very good chance to block or dodge the other's attack. A peasant vs a knight on the other hand, I'd have the peasant have very low block and dodge percentages and the knight have very high percentages.

 

[archaven]

I agree with this, but group combat brings in other considerations. Think if all the enemies were so defensively smart in Arkham City. Each battle would take an eternity. In TW2 we were facing up to 8-12 enemies at once. Ideally I'd have a few louts offensive and reckless, some more armored and defensive, some true swordsmen who parry and counter. What you've you've described is more fitting in Dark Souls where the emphasis is one-on -one combat.

Very much this i agreed.

 

[Xtreme-Void]

I laugh thinking Dark Souls with a lot of enemies at once, with Skyrim scale of world.
I believe some of you will really like it, someone need to face the reality of the world.

 

[SoullessPhilosophy]

Peasants from the swamps shouldn't be able to frequently block, even barely, witcher's blows.

That shouldn't be a problem. For those types I'd say give them 1 hp and a very low (say 5%) dodge chance (just to spice it up) and 0% block chance vs Geralt.

 

[maciekka09]

That shouldn't be a problem. For those types I'd say give them 1 hp and a very low (say 5%) dodge chance (just to spice it up) and 0% block chance vs Geralt.

Well, sir, that's a good imaginary system you got there.
I just don't think at this stage that much can be done to the fighting. Would be cool though.

 

[SoullessPhilosophy]

I laugh thinking Dark Souls with a lot of enemies at once

That's not what I'm suggesting at all. The only essential gameplay difference with what I'm suggesting is that instead regular frontal sword hits being animated as fully connecting slashes through the torso, you show them as being barely deflected or diverted by the enemy's weapon, shield, armor or whatever or just grazing them. It's almost entirely a cosmetic change for the sake of immersion.

I would, though, as I mentioned above, personally enjoy it more if there were also dynamic enemy type and level based block and dodge percentages, and I'd have almost all humanoids have at least some chance (however small) to full block or dodge vs the witcher, just for the sake of variety and spicing it up.

Edit: I forgot that I also mentioned dazed and rear attacks should be one hit kills if they're unarmored and if they're fully armored maybe have the armor block a few hits for them. So it's not entirely cosmetic, but it still wouldn't crank up the difficulty to Dark Souls levels (it'd actually probably make it a little easier).

 

[SoullessPhilosophy]

Well, sir, that's a good imaginary system you got there.

Maybe it's naive of me, but I sincerely hope that a dev just happens to see this and says "hey, we should do this!" It would make me immensely happy and I think the gameplay would be much better for it if they did it properly.

 

[501105]

I can agree on the animation for the sake of immersion but I hope the opposite in that a dev will not like the notion.
When looking at previous Witcher games and reading the books it is apparant that a Witcher is a very fast hitting warrior, almost an assassin in terms of speed, reflexes and movement. Having a duel with armed opponents sounds extremely unwelcome to me and fighting multiplae opponents will turn into a let us attack him one for one and wait our turn to die (the very thing that AC is known for). Also heck no to one hit kill reactions, at that point you may as well add a combo meter a la batman.

 

[gab96]

They would only be weaker after receiving a blow. Its not a one hit one kill.

 

[Jack Bauer 24]

Even Skyrim had this. Sad.

 

[serxho92]

But if I'm not mistaken, those guys were deserters, not bandits or paesants.

You didn't get the point. What i mean is that they are the weakest type of enemy. In every game the weakest enemies get killed as if they were nothing.
Stronger ones will have the ability to parry or dodge or cast magic and we will have our sword fights and whatever you want.
We need to see more gameplay or maybe what other types of enemies the game will have.
But the most important thing is that we don't know how much CDPR has upgraded the combat system and what Geralt is fully capable of. That's why i said it is wrong to judge the game so early.

 

[GuyNwah]

The moderators will not hesitate to remove members from the forums for repeatedly insulting and flamebaiting others over a moderator's direct order to cease and desist. If you want to continue to participate in this discussion, do so decently and in order.

Posts have been deleted for cause.

Remarks like "You know how many people that has the same thinking as you?... To put in bluntly it's call 'whining'" and "Wow, you're pretty annoying and you seem to be a little thick" are the manner of insults that you are to refrain from making. Whether you believe them truthful or justified is irrelevant. Do not make them.

 

[SoullessPhilosophy]

You didn't get the point. What i mean is that they are the weakest type of enemy. In every game the weakest enemies get killed as if they were nothing.
Stronger ones will have the ability to parry or dodge or cast magic and we will have our sword fights and whatever you want.
We need to see more gameplay or maybe what other types of enemies the game will have.
But the most important thing is that we don't know how much CDPR has upgraded the combat system and what Geralt is fully capable of. That's why i said it is wrong to judge the game so early.

But you missed the point of my OP, which was that it's immersion breaking to have them taking 3-4 full slashes through the torso with no ill effect. If you don't think they're even capable of barely deflecting one of Geralt's blows and they're unarmored, then I say give them 1hp and a small dodge chance (just to spice things up).

 

[Zhyphix]

I can't say it's essential for my immersion, since it's pretty much the norm for every other game, but I've always hoped that someday a developer would come up with this very idea.

Fully armored opponents could still get hit on their body to reflect their supposed lack of fast reactions, as well as seeing this as tiring them out before going for their weak spot, but unarmored people getting half a dozen hits on their very faces before suddenly losing a limb is quite unrealistic, and I'd love to see the suggested mechanic implemented. Same goes for five arrows sticking through Geralt's chest before magically disappearing after a few seconds, by the way.

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

AC combat system: PLEASE NOT

As for the enemies parrying, I agree. I'd like to have the enemies at least LOOKING like they defend some of my hits.
I think taking 2, 3 or even 4 hits is not that unrealistic considering they all have armor underneath their clothes, so I don't mind that, but there should be a blocking animation that shows they do at least try to block you.

 

[Venethor]

I can't say it's essential for my immersion, since it's pretty much the norm for every other game, but I've always hoped that someday a developer would come up with this very idea.

Fully armored opponents could still get hit on their body to reflect their supposed lack of fast reactions, as well as seeing this as tiring them out before going for their weak spot, but unarmored people getting half a dozen hits on their very faces before suddenly losing a limb is quite unrealistic, and I'd love to see the suggested mechanic implemented. Same goes for five arrows sticking through Geralt's chest before magically disappearing after a few seconds, by the way.

Plate armour is not as encumbering as most people think. I agree that they should be able to take direct hits but IMO this should be because their armour can take it and not because they're too slow. Think about it this way, if you can afford a suit of plate armour then chances are you'll have had adequate training too. Knights and men-at-arms have been known to perform sommersaults and other acrobatic feats while wearing armour.

 

[Lieste]

While not the exactly the same as you describe, the FCR mods did significantly change (increase) hit and parry skills and reduce hitpoints for most monsters and humans. Most would die from 2-4 hits, but would also do *lots* of damage to Geralt in return if you did get hit, (more hits required & sometimes significantly more if heavily armoured though)...

I always say that FCR made the W1 and W2 playable for me ~ the spammed rolls and signs took so much away from the experience in all footage I've seen of the vanilla game (and that matches my own experience of partial plays of the originals of both). FCR gave much more fluidity and gave you an excellent chance of winning a standing fight against most single enemies, while not permitting careless positioning against mulitple foes. It seemed much more lore-appropriate overall.

 

[thislsmadness]

The reason videogames keep coming back to this sort of offensive leaning combat style is because it is fun and easily adaptable. You can create a wide variety of encounter types to support it. Batman combat system flows beautifully but it starts to falls apart when you're not fighting 10 or 20 enemies at once. Most of the boss encounters end up being really janky and full of QTEs. AC has the same problem, except that its a far more shallow version of what Batman does.

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

The reason videogames keep coming back to this sort of offensive leaning combat style is because it is fun and easily adaptable. You can create a wide variety of encounter types to support it. Batman combat system flows beautifully but it starts to falls apart when you're not fighting 10 or 20 enemies at once. Most of the boss encounters end up being really janky and full of QTEs. AC has the same problem, except that its a far more shallow version of what Batman does.

Which is why TW is so amazing.

The enemies can kill you quickly and you need some time to kill them.
Reason? They are monsters, predators. They are made for that.
You are a Witcher sure, but you are still human, still vulnerable.

I think Batmans combat is fitting for Batman.
But such a combat system doesn't fit for TW.

Hell, even AC is trying to increase combat difficulty in Unity.

 

[Zhyphix]

Plate armour is not as encumbering as most people think. I agree that they should be able to take direct hits but IMO this should be because their armour can take it and not because they're too slow. Think about it this way, if you can afford a suit of plate armour then chances are you'll have had adequate training too. Knights and men-at-arms have been known to perform sommersaults and other acrobatic feats while wearing armour.

That's why I used "could" and "supposed". If The Witcher 2 is an accurate example of what we could expect in The Witcher 3, armored opponents would be using heavier armor and two-handed weapons as well, thus justifying Geralt being able to land a few hits on their body. Not necessarily every single blow, unlike with unarmored opponents who would at least get a large cut if they were to hit by a witcher's sword. I didn't intend for armored opponents to be sluggish brutes who can't even adequately dodge or parry.

Of course, this would work better with a "realistic difficulty" mode where you'd only need a few hits to kill a man and for Geralt to die, but nevertheless, it would still be more realistic than the current system.