Dealing with Schirru and other ambush's near-invulnerable shell

[Mr.Win]

Dealing with Schirru and other ambush's near-invulnerable shell

Sigh... can't believe I need to make another thread addressing this issue again. I thought the Devs read my first one (http://forums.cdprojektred.com/forum...ble-to-removal) but guess not since there is still no additional removal/counter to ambush cards brain dead BS invulnerable state. With how ambush cards are treated on the board, they are basically another variant to gold cards. In fact, lets compare ambush cards with gold cards for a second. Gold cards can be D-Bomb/shackled or demoted by Sergeant to make them vulnerable, while Ambush cards can be weathered or Morenned. D-bomb/shackle is available to all factions while the Sergeant is available to only NR, and weather cards are available to all factions except for Morenn being ST. Like seriously why the hell is Ambush cards treated like a variant of a gold card? They barely have any type of counter and they come in all forms of bronze/silver/gold. I can deal with gold cards be vulnerable to only two counters because of how limited gold cards are. But Ambush? Hell have a whole deck of ambush cards and watch as they all stay alive throughout the turns(sarcasm). Oh you use weather on a row to weaken them ambush cards? Well good thing they are Agile and can easily be placed on another row. Oh you weather the row that I actually placed my ambush cards on? Well good thing I always have access to First Light with my merc and Aglais and good thing the faction ability give me CA to play my First Light last.

Okay that was ambush cards in general, now lets talk to the absurdly overpowered omega-being Schirru. The only card in the game that makes me want to rage quit from Gwent until he's nerfed. Lets compare the scorch ability between Schirru with Igni and Borkh. Yes I know Borkh and Igni is neutral and should be as effective. But freaking Schirru man, the dude has no withdraw or counter whats so ever. Igni requires 20 or more power on the row and is 4 power. Borkh is 4 power, permadeath, HAS A 3 TURN TIMER THAT CAN EASILY BE DEMOTED OR LOCKED, and can hit your own units. Well what makes Schirru comeplete BS? The dude is 5 power, has no timer, no power requirement, is a MFing ambush card that CANT BE LOCKED CUZ IF YOU TRIED TO LOCK HIM HE WILL BURN YOU TO CRISP, can burn ANYTHING AND ONLY ON YOUR OPPONENT SIDE, but the most BS thing I personally find about him is how he can "CANCEL an opponent's turn". Seriously, he is BS because he of how punishing and easy he is used. Yes he is worth 0 power if his ability does not activate, but lets be real it activates 99.9999% of the time. Merc having access to special cards at all times and same with Aglais. Your opponent most likely has D-shackle/first light/thunder because EVERYONE runs them. Schirru can take your opponent 2+ turns backward in power. For example, opponent plays a unit, I throw down Shirru, opponent activates first light/swallow (or w/e special). It CANCELS THAT AND BURN THE UNIT TO A CRISP. Taking your opponent back to phase 1 as those two plays did absolutely nothing and was wasted by one BS effect. As soon as Schirru is played, your opponent cannot activate any special cards unless they want to have HUGE disadvantage in power. Of course, not being able to activate special cards in general will put you at a MUCH MORE huger disadvantage.

Yes this is a rage/mad rant and I'm salty. But hey it's reasonable because there is no way to play around these BS cards or there is hardly any ways to play around it. Heck even ask Merchant and he will agree and explain how BS ambush cards are. I love y'all CD Projekt Red, but seriously, provide more counters to ambush cards on future update pretty please.

 

[4RM3D]

The irony is that very few people actually use Schirru, so the devs buffed him. Yup, he actually got buffed two patches ago. Even now I rarely see Schirru. Anyhow, you were comparing him with Igni. Well, Igni can trigger in most cases too nowadays. The difference with Schirru is that someone needs to use a spell. If you have to trigger Schirru yourself, then he is just as good as Igni. His worth is only when you get the opponent to use a spell. This isn't always as easy as it sounds when you have an opponent that isn't brain dead. Either the opponent's deck has almost no spells or he can just pass. There are also faction specific counters like Henselt's Gold or NG's Cantarella (to block the damage).

Overall, Schirru is definitely a good card. However, you can't blindly play him in every situation like you can with Igni. Speaking of Scorches, Aglaïs double Scorch is painful also. Finally, I have the urge to mention the Scorch Family once again.

 

[Mr.Win]

The irony is that very few people actually use Schirru, so the devs buffed him. Yup, he actually got buffed two patches ago. Even now I rarely see Schirru. Anyhow, you were comparing him with Igni. Well, Igni can trigger in most cases too nowadays. The difference with Schirru is that someone needs to use a spell. If you have to trigger Schirru yourself, then he is just as good as Igni. His worth is only when you get the opponent to use a spell. This isn't always as easy as it sounds when you have an opponent that isn't brain dead. Either the opponent's deck has almost no spells or he can just pass. There are also faction specific counters like Henselt's Gold or NG's Cantarella (to block the damage).

Overall, Schirru is definitely a good card. However, you can't blindly play him in every situation like you can with Igni. Speaking of Scorches, Aglaïs double Scorch is painful also. Finally, I have the urge to mention the Scorch Family once again.

Mate honestly, the players on your level are porbably low levels so they probably don't have access to it. Thats why Schirru is complete BS, he requires a spell to activate. But oh noes your the one who place him down, you know he's Schirru and the opponent don't. Opponent activates special, Schirru flips up, cancels special, destroy their strongest card. It is complete BS and brain dead to use. Well yeah if you trigger Schirru then he's as good as Igni, but if the opponent triggers him then they are F*cked. Please tell me mate, how isn't easy to use Schirru? the card has like no drawback OR counter at all. He is seriously the only gold card that has no fear of Dshackle and thats the inclusion of not counting the BS of ambush invulnerable shell itself. When i said counter, I meant removing ambush cards or locking their effects.

Actually I disagree, you have more freedom to play Schirru blinded and brain dead all you want. Throw Schirru down and watch your opponent scorch him/her self while you sit there. Lets not lie to ourselves, EVERY player uses first light and decoy and most will have thunder. Aglais with spamming scorch is annoying and BS too but this thread ain't about her.

 

[Lexandre]

Schirru is a bad card and ambushes in general are very unreliable, thats why nobody plays them on higher level unless they just want to mess around with the opponent's mind

 

[Bolzenschuss]

i dont use shirrú that often because it comes at high risk playing gigni along with eithné is much better
if he dosnt flip i wasted a gold card and activating him by myself means losing a needed special which equals in 2 cards lost for one scorch
not a good trade at all
he is indeed superb in 3rd round as counter for specials if youre in card disadvantage or vs weather decks
but most of the time i need to activate him by mself which is - as said not a good trade

 

[4RM3D]

kietmac123

Moderator's note: Saying BS in every sentence doesn't get your point across any better. Please refrain from overusing implied swearing.

Back to the discussion. First of all, I have faced many rank 15 players and level 40+ players during the beta and I haven't seen that many ambush decks and even fewer Schirru's. Secondly, Igni cannot be effectively countered either and D-shackles is useless against him too. Back to Schirru, if you drop him too soon, you will only Scorch a small unit. If you drop Schirru too late, the opponent might pass. In both cases you've wasted Schirru's full potential. So you still have to take some care. Also, facing ambush means you should expect Ciaran for CA, Toruviel for a boost or Ida/Schirru for a counter. Guessing that the ambush card is either Ciaran or Toruviel can be pretty easy, leaving only the counters (or a harmless trapper). Decks like Henselt's Gold and NG's Emissary run very little spells and can easily out-man you very quickly. Because ambush decks usually have very little strength, they have to rely on removal and control.

On a related note, I actually would like to face more ambush decks. Getting NG Emissary spam or SK Longship discard is getting old fast.

 

[Bolzenschuss]

kietmac123

Moderator's note: Saying BS in every sentence doesn't get your point across any better. Please refrain from overusing implied swearing.

Back to the discussion. First of all, I have faced many rank 15 players and level 40+ players during the beta and I haven't seen that many ambush decks and even fewer Schirru's. Secondly, Igni cannot be effectively countered either and D-shackles is useless against him too. Back to Schirru, if you drop him too soon, you will only Scorch a small unit. If you drop Schirru too late, the opponent might pass. In both cases you've wasted Schirru's full potential. So you still have to take some care. Also, facing ambush means you should expect Ciaran for CA, Toruviel for a boost or Ida/Schirru for a counter. Guessing that the ambush card is either Ciaran or Toruviel can be pretty easy, leaving only the counters (or a harmless trapper). Decks like Henselt's Gold and NG's Emissary run very little spells and can easily out-man you very quickly. Because ambush decks usually have very little strength, they have to rely on removal and control.

On a related note, I actually would like to face more ambush decks. Getting NG Emissary spam or SK Longship discard is getting old fast.

you just have to deal with SK longship??
wow i would love seeing them because since patch i faced this absolut nightmare deck alot:

http://www.gwentdb.com/decks/15360-swims-weather-wounding-guide

lost every round to it so far
its like a monster weather but without low strg cards

 

[4RM3D]

you just have to deal with SK longship??
wow i would love seeing them because since patch i faced this absolut nightmare deck alot:

It was Longship before the patch. Now it's a variation of wounding. With my ambush deck I have defeated almost all wounding decks.

 

[Mr.Win]

Schirru is a bad card and ambushes in general are very unreliable, thats why nobody plays them on higher level unless they just want to mess around with the opponent's mind

More like the player is bad. How can you screw up with Schirru? Obviously you ain't playing high enough mate.

 

[Mr.Win]

kietmac123

Moderator's note: Saying BS in every sentence doesn't get your point across any better. Please refrain from overusing implied swearing.

Back to the discussion. First of all, I have faced many rank 15 players and level 40+ players during the beta and I haven't seen that many ambush decks and even fewer Schirru's. Secondly, Igni cannot be effectively countered either and D-shackles is useless against him too. Back to Schirru, if you drop him too soon, you will only Scorch a small unit. If you drop Schirru too late, the opponent might pass. In both cases you've wasted Schirru's full potential. So you still have to take some care. Also, facing ambush means you should expect Ciaran for CA, Toruviel for a boost or Ida/Schirru for a counter. Guessing that the ambush card is either Ciaran or Toruviel can be pretty easy, leaving only the counters (or a harmless trapper). Decks like Henselt's Gold and NG's Emissary run very little spells and can easily out-man you very quickly. Because ambush decks usually have very little strength, they have to rely on removal and control.

On a related note, I actually would like to face more ambush decks. Getting NG Emissary spam or SK Longship discard is getting old fast.

Actually I disagree, saying BS on "every sentence" does get my point across. Why would I waste time and keep typing BS if it isn't true in the first place huh mate?

I don't fight lvl40s, I am fighting lvl 60-70 players. No wonder players on your level ain't using Schirru. You don't see ambush decks because level 40s are most likely playing NR and SK most of the time. Yes D-shackle is useless against Igni, I was comparing Schirru with Borkh. If the opponent pass then throw down a merc and activate the scorch and take the round? come on now mate, take the first round and bleed theirs cards out on second round, then win 3rd round. I don't get whats your problem about throwing Schirru down if your opponent passes lmao. Well good thing ST is great at pulling out controls with units and their ambush cards makes them un-removable

Okay watch, once you get to higher level and face PRO ambush decks. Watch as they wreck your plays and you come back to this thread saying how you were wrong. Cause at the moment you facing level 40s mate, they don't use ambush decks cause they rely on Gwent DB page for playing the game in the first place.

 

[Mr.Win]

kietmac123

Moderator's note: Saying BS in every sentence doesn't get your point across any better. Please refrain from overusing implied swearing.

Back to the discussion. First of all, I have faced many rank 15 players and level 40+ players during the beta and I haven't seen that many ambush decks and even fewer Schirru's. Secondly, Igni cannot be effectively countered either and D-shackles is useless against him too. Back to Schirru, if you drop him too soon, you will only Scorch a small unit. If you drop Schirru too late, the opponent might pass. In both cases you've wasted Schirru's full potential. So you still have to take some care. Also, facing ambush means you should expect Ciaran for CA, Toruviel for a boost or Ida/Schirru for a counter. Guessing that the ambush card is either Ciaran or Toruviel can be pretty easy, leaving only the counters (or a harmless trapper). Decks like Henselt's Gold and NG's Emissary run very little spells and can easily out-man you very quickly. Because ambush decks usually have very little strength, they have to rely on removal and control.

On a related note, I actually would like to face more ambush decks. Getting NG Emissary spam or SK Longship discard is getting old fast.

Did you just seriously move the thread to tactician center? lol what are you doing with your moderator power man. This thread isn't asking for help, its about the problem regarding ambush cards. Also I don't see you trying to make a counter argument on ambush invulnerable state. All you said is "oh I dont see anyone playing them at my level" and you complaining about me using the "BS" word? If you wanna counter my argument that's fine, but trying to abuse moderator power is quite disappointing and sad. Move this thread back to the General Discussion. Ambush cards need to be addressed ASAP before more are added into the game.

 

[Lexandre]

More like the player is bad. How can you screw up with Schirru? Obviously you ain't playing high enough mate.

how? by not having the opponent play any special card or by having to play your own special card to trigger him or playing him too early before your opponent spends his special cards and wasting Schirru on some low strength unit

also writing so much just for the sake of a troll thread is a huge waste of effort if you ask me, if you wanted more experienced players to explain to you why Schirru and ambushes cant make it into a good deck you could just ask that straight up instead of posting all that bait attempt

 

[Anen]

Sigh... can't believe I need to make another thread addressing this issue again. I thought the Devs read my first one (http://forums.cdprojektred.com/forum...ble-to-removal) but guess not since there is still no additional removal/counter to ambush cards brain dead BS invulnerable state. With how ambush cards are treated on the board, they are basically another variant to gold cards. In fact, lets compare ambush cards with gold cards for a second. Gold cards can be D-Bomb/shackled or demoted by Sergeant to make them vulnerable, while Ambush cards can be weathered or Morenned. D-bomb/shackle is available to all factions while the Sergeant is available to only NR, and weather cards are available to all factions except for Morenn being ST. Like seriously why the hell is Ambush cards treated like a variant of a gold card? They barely have any type of counter and they come in all forms of bronze/silver/gold. I can deal with gold cards be vulnerable to only two counters because of how limited gold cards are. But Ambush? Hell have a whole deck of ambush cards and watch as they all stay alive throughout the turns(sarcasm). Oh you use weather on a row to weaken them ambush cards? Well good thing they are Agile and can easily be placed on another row. Oh you weather the row that I actually placed my ambush cards on? Well good thing I always have access to First Light with my merc and Aglais and good thing the faction ability give me CA to play my First Light last.

Okay that was ambush cards in general, now lets talk to the absurdly overpowered omega-being Schirru. The only card in the game that makes me want to rage quit from Gwent until he's nerfed. Lets compare the scorch ability between Schirru with Igni and Borkh. Yes I know Borkh and Igni is neutral and should be as effective. But freaking Schirru man, the dude has no withdraw or counter whats so ever. Igni requires 20 or more power on the row and is 4 power. Borkh is 4 power, permadeath, HAS A 3 TURN TIMER THAT CAN EASILY BE DEMOTED OR LOCKED, and can hit your own units. Well what makes Schirru comeplete BS? The dude is 5 power, has no timer, no power requirement, is a MFing ambush card that CANT BE LOCKED CUZ IF YOU TRIED TO LOCK HIM HE WILL BURN YOU TO CRISP, can burn ANYTHING AND ONLY ON YOUR OPPONENT SIDE, but the most BS thing I personally find about him is how he can "CANCEL an opponent's turn". Seriously, he is BS because he of how punishing and easy he is used. Yes he is worth 0 power if his ability does not activate, but lets be real it activates 99.9999% of the time. Merc having access to special cards at all times and same with Aglais. Your opponent most likely has D-shackle/first light/thunder because EVERYONE runs them. Schirru can take your opponent 2+ turns backward in power. For example, opponent plays a unit, I throw down Shirru, opponent activates first light/swallow (or w/e special). It CANCELS THAT AND BURN THE UNIT TO A CRISP. Taking your opponent back to phase 1 as those two plays did absolutely nothing and was wasted by one BS effect. As soon as Schirru is played, your opponent cannot activate any special cards unless they want to have HUGE disadvantage in power. Of course, not being able to activate special cards in general will put you at a MUCH MORE huger disadvantage.

Yes this is a rage/mad rant and I'm salty. But hey it's reasonable because there is no way to play around these BS cards or there is hardly any ways to play around it. Heck even ask Merchant and he will agree and explain how BS ambush cards are. I love y'all CD Projekt Red, but seriously, provide more counters to ambush cards on future update pretty please.

Dont say that you get mad and typing this looong sentences because losing one game which it player provoke you badly.
Anyone can make me summary @@

 

[Mr.Win]

how? by not having the opponent play any special card or by having to play your own special card to trigger him or playing him too early before your opponent spends his special cards and wasting Schirru on some low strength unit

also writing so much just for the sake of a troll thread is a huge waste of effort if you ask me, if you wanted more experienced players to explain to you why Schirru and ambushes cant make it into a good deck you could just ask that straight up instead of posting all that bait attempt

Umm why would you use Schirru against low power units? Even then, its very easy to pull off with how the ST faction cards work.

Writing this much to prove my point. If you think this is a "troll" you probably don't understand how argument with details and back up evidence works. Please point the way to these more experience players, heck invite them to this thread. If you don't, then it means your arguing for the sake of argument and have no counter argument to the thread

 

[Mr.Win]

Dont say that you get mad and typing this looong sentences because losing one game which it player provoke you badly.
Anyone can make me summary @@

I provide detail and backed it up. Most of y'all who are responding to this thread can't even make up a proper counter to my thread. Instead, you just say "stop QQing", "I don't see it being played", or "you type too much" without actually providing a counter arguement to why ambush aren't broken. Come on, if you want to fill me in on why it isn't broken please elaborate more. Other then that, if you got no counter then don't even respond in the first place, its wasting my time replying and your time typing this.

 

[Tamacountry13]

Alright let's take it to the basics.
He's a 5 Str Gold Ambush that needs a special to be played to get any value whatsoever.

Him being a Gold makes him immune to weather which isn't a big deal as he's only 5 Str.

He's an Ambush which makes him immune to Shackles, Not a issue either as Geralt Igni for comparison can't be Shackles either.
The biggest plus to Ambush is your opponent doesn't know which Ambush card you played. Most players can actually deduce which Ambush you played so they can play around them, Every now and then though you might surprise a few people as he's not used much.

As for his effect, If you activate him yourself he's straight up a worse Igni as you have a lot less control over it and you sacrifice a card.

His ONLY value happens IF your opponent plays a special and that's a big if.
Now not all decks run a lot or any specials which make him REALLY bad against these decks.

If your opponent guesses that it's Schirru on the field they can plan ahead to reduce the damage he does
Passing while they're in the lead is a pretty good way to deal with him or just passing early to not have to deal with him.

They can also just straight up not use any specials.
They can also activate him on purpose to prevent more damage down the line.

Overall he's a great card when he works but terrible when he doesn't which is why he's not used a lot.

The best way to see how good he is is to try him out yourself, You'll soon see he not as great as you make him out to be.

 

[panerola]

I don't think it is too bad, I use him with vill....Bork, then, if the opponent try to deactivate Bork might have a good time. Nevertheless sometimes it does not activate, which it is unfortunate. But it has a lot of potential and it is fun. I guess maybe you cannot play in a very competitive way with this card, but still it is fun to play.
By the way, if there is two Schirru on the bord (yours and opponent), I still don't know which one will activate first, but I guess it is another post.

 

[tortugueta]

If you craft a deck with Bork, Schirru, Geralt Igni, Scorch, Aglaïs and Eitné, you can call it SCORCHA'TAEL.

I'll show myself out...

 

[Anen]

I provide detail and backed it up. Most of y'all who are responding to this thread can't even make up a proper counter to my thread. Instead, you just say "stop QQing", "I don't see it being played", or "you type too much" without actually providing a counter arguement to why ambush aren't broken. Come on, if you want to fill me in on why it isn't broken please elaborate more. Other then that, if you got no counter then don't even respond in the first place, its wasting my time replying and your time typing this.

like you wasting my time reading your loong sentences.
Playing with ambush is hard. i have tried my self, i craft some ambush card to look at your complain.
if you play ambush you need to have fortune teller with you. you have to know where they want to play their card, when to place it. they are filp down card yes flip down!

you cant get score with flip down card and i have tried my self with my ambush card are still flip down until end of both round. without any action from it and it forced to moved to graveyard, how sad.
if gwent have star to rank for difficulties ST will have five star that mean hardest fraction to play. maybe you lose once against them but you dont know how much time they try to got a win.

Ambush is a like spy card on nilfgardian but nilf spy is far easy to use. place it, you lose 2 score but you can draw card (1 round play 2 cards), place another 2 and add 12 STR on you side. play again draw another cards. but ambush is hell. you know where should i place it, when i place it, what opponent going to use next, make my brain going to explode. your opponent you were facing have fortune teller beside him, without doubt.
if you dont believe me try for yourself.

if i can suggest i will sugeest to make flip down card goes up in the end of both player passed.

Nevertheless sometimes it does not activate, which it is unfortunate. But it has a lot of potential and it is fun. I guess maybe you cannot play in a very competitive way with this card, but still it is fun to play.

see you need fortune teller to play ambush

 

[panerola]

kietmac123 instead of doing looooooooooong raging posts.

if you dont believe me try for yourself.