the very core of what i feel like it means to be an RPG. choice and how you interact with the world. Epic weapons are for looter games like borderlands or Diablo.
the very core of what i feel like it means to be an RPG. choice and how you interact with the world. Epic weapons are for looter games like borderlands or Diablo.
1.) The topic is as it is stated in the title and OP.
2.) We already have weapons threads: Expected implants and weapons?; Weapon design inspiration;
Integrated Weapons; Melee Weapon Variety; GEAR and Crafting: Clothing, Armor, and doohickeys...;
Sexy guns; etc etc etc
If you want to discuss weapons more generally, take it to the appropriate thread. If you want to discuss the quotes in the OP, keep it here.
To play a devil's advocate, even in Cyberpunk 2020 weapons had availability/rarity assigned to them, so I think if they just changed the names of the categories to the ones present in Cyberpunk 2020 (like Epic to just Rare), that would be perfectly fine.
Rarity in modern RPGs isn't actually rarity, though. It's just a term used to describe a gun's stats. 2020 likely had the appropriate definition, but modern games do not.
A "legendary" gun is more powerful than a "rare" gun, and "rare" guns are never actually "rare" in the normal sense of the word (you get dozens/hundreds of them, depending on the game).
Rarity translating into the guns quality kinda makes sense from gameplay standpoint, however I do agree with your statement about "rarity" often losing it's initial meaning, because of excessive loot distribution. We'll have to see if they'll attempt more sensible approach to rare weapons distribution.
Wheee. Gonna lock this up now as it seeeeeems we have reached the end of the "THE GAME HAS CHANGED" and are now fully embracing "LETS TALK GUNS." of which we have many of those. Go forth and enjoy one! But not this one.
Because, you know, when a mod says, "back on topic" and people don't, well.
Because, you know, when a mod says, "back on topic" and people don't, well.
So there are rumours going around that gameplay has changed a bit. I wont source them here because they are numerous. Apparently the shooting has been reworked.
I personally didn't have a problem with shooting i thought it looked great. I loved that you could take drugs and it slowed time i liked the bullet billiards off the walls.
Of course we had a lot of people complaining that they didn't like it. What do you think has changed? I personally think they might have added a "VATS system" which i personally dont like all that much. People were also complaining about the level system in this RPG game..
What do you guys think what changes would you want? What changes do you think they made?
I personally didn't have a problem with shooting i thought it looked great. I loved that you could take drugs and it slowed time i liked the bullet billiards off the walls.
Of course we had a lot of people complaining that they didn't like it. What do you think has changed? I personally think they might have added a "VATS system" which i personally dont like all that much. People were also complaining about the level system in this RPG game..
What do you guys think what changes would you want? What changes do you think they made?
I personally wasn't a big fan of the level system in The Witcher 3, and haven't been a big fan of NPCs, enemies and whatnot having numbered levels.
I'm a little bit of the opinion that numbered levels for the player character are a little outdated too, but, recognize and respect the roots of this game coming from a PnP RPG where numbered levels are indeed an integral part of the game.
I do, however, think, there should be some efforts in the gaming community by developers to explore other methods of player character advancement that feels a little more immersive organic and less "it's a game and you're THIS level".
Sadly, I don't have any decent spit-ball recommendations to even approach reworking a system that's starting to show it's age.
I'm also not too comfortable with developers rolling out experimental systems on big titles such as this, and think such experiments should get play tested in the wild with smaller games, perhaps even by an off-shoot studio name run by CDPR, or XYZ developer name, but distanced enough from the main house so that a spectacular failure doesn't kick them in the teeth.
If a new character advancement system is tried out on a small game, works, is received well, and even gets some good reviews, then, perhaps, develop that new system further.
As such, while I wasn't all-in on the level system we saw with the game-play demo, I was fine with it, and would have been content with it as it was.
I did take some issue with the double-jump. That just felt too video-gamey. I could see something like that being plausible in a low gravity environment where the character has a thruster pack or something, but, in Earth-normal gravity, eh, no.
Better bouncey cyber legs are great, and they should certainly help a character make amazing longer and higher than normal jumps, but, not double jumps.
Everything else, as I recall, was great, other than minor criticisms regarding things like enemy AI where the Maelstrom Gang with THOSE optics, should be able to see you through walls, underground, from space or something, and basically, if an enemy has certain cyberware, they should act like they have that cyberware and use it.
How are you going to sneak up on anyone that has a telescope on their head that can probably see through walls, especially when the whole gang is on high alert?
Granted, the demo was likely a bit scripted for the purposes of being exactly what a demo is ... a demonstration, thus, I suspect this is a minor criticism.
I was fine with the way guns appeared to work, and most everything else.
I'm a little bit of the opinion that numbered levels for the player character are a little outdated too, but, recognize and respect the roots of this game coming from a PnP RPG where numbered levels are indeed an integral part of the game.
I do, however, think, there should be some efforts in the gaming community by developers to explore other methods of player character advancement that feels a little more immersive organic and less "it's a game and you're THIS level".
Sadly, I don't have any decent spit-ball recommendations to even approach reworking a system that's starting to show it's age.
I'm also not too comfortable with developers rolling out experimental systems on big titles such as this, and think such experiments should get play tested in the wild with smaller games, perhaps even by an off-shoot studio name run by CDPR, or XYZ developer name, but distanced enough from the main house so that a spectacular failure doesn't kick them in the teeth.
If a new character advancement system is tried out on a small game, works, is received well, and even gets some good reviews, then, perhaps, develop that new system further.
As such, while I wasn't all-in on the level system we saw with the game-play demo, I was fine with it, and would have been content with it as it was.
I did take some issue with the double-jump. That just felt too video-gamey. I could see something like that being plausible in a low gravity environment where the character has a thruster pack or something, but, in Earth-normal gravity, eh, no.
Better bouncey cyber legs are great, and they should certainly help a character make amazing longer and higher than normal jumps, but, not double jumps.
Everything else, as I recall, was great, other than minor criticisms regarding things like enemy AI where the Maelstrom Gang with THOSE optics, should be able to see you through walls, underground, from space or something, and basically, if an enemy has certain cyberware, they should act like they have that cyberware and use it.
How are you going to sneak up on anyone that has a telescope on their head that can probably see through walls, especially when the whole gang is on high alert?
Granted, the demo was likely a bit scripted for the purposes of being exactly what a demo is ... a demonstration, thus, I suspect this is a minor criticism.
I was fine with the way guns appeared to work, and most everything else.
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The gunplay was fine, mostly, all I want is for your weapon skills to have an effect on it. Not in a VATS-like way, but more recoil, bullet spread, reduced reload speed if you have 0 in your Long Gun skill.
I know Suhiira and others would like an optional VATS-esque system for closer-to-RPG gameplay.
The general NPC/character level system is less problematic for me (we have no idea what it reflects, after all), what I really didn't like is the classification of loot as "Legendary, Epic" etc. If they ditch that I'll already be happier, though of course I'd prefer weapons to not have levels at all so as to avoid the player getting two identical pistols, one of which magically does 1000 extra damage per shot.
I know Suhiira and others would like an optional VATS-esque system for closer-to-RPG gameplay.
The general NPC/character level system is less problematic for me (we have no idea what it reflects, after all), what I really didn't like is the classification of loot as "Legendary, Epic" etc. If they ditch that I'll already be happier, though of course I'd prefer weapons to not have levels at all so as to avoid the player getting two identical pistols, one of which magically does 1000 extra damage per shot.
Don't get me wrong. I'm in no way suggesting RPG gameplay replace the current FPS system, merely that it be an option. I know the vast majority of players will be FPS types and would go ballistic were CP2077 to feature only RPG combat.
As to "Rumor: Gameplay has Changed" ... Of course it has. It's been nearly a year since the 2018 demo and things will change right up till the game goes gold, and even more changes will be implemented in patches and DLC.
I have very little interest in gun combat because I'll always go for the stealth approach if the game allows it. To be honest, all I care regarding gunplay is: "Does it feel like I am shooting a real gun (when I don't have any other option besides shooting)?". If it does, then that's great. If it doesn't, well, I can live with that -- since most games don't have the "real gun feeling" anyway.
My real concern when it comes to gameplay is melee combat, melee animations, animations in general, cover system, stuff like that. I hope they have changed/improved everything about that. I'm still kinda bummed by the fact we won't be getting a TPP toggle option.
My real concern when it comes to gameplay is melee combat, melee animations, animations in general, cover system, stuff like that. I hope they have changed/improved everything about that. I'm still kinda bummed by the fact we won't be getting a TPP toggle option.
I wouldn't take rumors too seriously, the kind of rumors I heard about this game seemed started by people that don't know the first thing about it, the devs or many of their statements.
That said, as others in this post mentioned, changes were bound to happen, it's only normal in game development. I don't think it changed too much tho.. Things like double jump will still be there (you can always not use it, bit of a waste to outright remove it). Gunplay looked good to me, as did the stim induced effects so idk. I don't think they changed the progression system to a non-leveling system, though it would be interesting to see how they would approach something like that in an open world RPG, this is one of the decisions I think they went with because it's what they know best.
That said, as others in this post mentioned, changes were bound to happen, it's only normal in game development. I don't think it changed too much tho.. Things like double jump will still be there (you can always not use it, bit of a waste to outright remove it). Gunplay looked good to me, as did the stim induced effects so idk. I don't think they changed the progression system to a non-leveling system, though it would be interesting to see how they would approach something like that in an open world RPG, this is one of the decisions I think they went with because it's what they know best.
Yeah, why not? It's been a year, and the game probably still has at least 6 months (maybe another year) of development.
It's not a rumour, but an overblown information from the interview with Mateusz Tomaszkiewicz, who in response to the question about how different current version of the game is in comparison to the last year presentation, stated that the game is still in development, so naturally they are still polishing all of it's elements, thinking about new gameplay ideas and improvements, so obviously the game is pretty different from the version we saw last year. However the headlines sometimes make it sound like they rebooted the game into (Night) city builder or something.
Besides even Adam Badowski after the gameplay reveal stated that gunplay in terms of presentation and stats will most likely change and Borys during presentation emphasized how everything we see is still a subject to change, so I'm sure a lot of things will be quite different. Even The Witcher 3 had several visual (not just downgrade related) and gameplay changes between final release and it's public demo.
Besides even Adam Badowski after the gameplay reveal stated that gunplay in terms of presentation and stats will most likely change and Borys during presentation emphasized how everything we see is still a subject to change, so I'm sure a lot of things will be quite different. Even The Witcher 3 had several visual (not just downgrade related) and gameplay changes between final release and it's public demo.
well removing levels from guns and enemies will take one pillar of RPG away from this game.
Thread merged into old interview thread that was impetus for rumor. If you wish to discuss combat mechanics, take it here - Combat Thread - General.
Also, unlocked thread to reopen discussion about interview (but please stay on topic).
Also, unlocked thread to reopen discussion about interview (but please stay on topic).
totally agree and actually the PnP doesn't have levels, so CDPR deliberately decided to use them because they like them/easy to implement/peole are used to them. Totally outdated, immersion breaking, and many RPGs don't use them and work perfectly. So I really hope they changed this, but it's not gonna happen.
So, what I think/hope changed?
- shooting: better "feeling" (= animations)(it was fine, but room for improvement)
- melee: same (those mantis blades slashes looked like the ones from skyrim's weapons, awful in 2019)
- driving (improved)
- more cars on the street (depending on player's hardware, OFC)
- more contextual animations (interacting with objects like picking items up, using the elevator)(hope, don't really believe it)
- coloured coded weapons (if you really want it, at least find appropriate descriptors and not epic/legendary)
- no levels for items (really really hope so, but pessimistic about that)
- more attention to details for cyberware (subdarmal grip that increases base DMG of weapons? what kind of magic is that?)(again, pessimistic), let's make it realistic/credible
- netrunning (they said demo showed just a prototype)
- street creds (hopefully not numbers, but descriptors: you're not "level 17 famous", you're "random guy/known in the business/VIP/hero/legend")
- (I was writing the last one but a long phone call erased it from my mind and I see that in the meantime threads were merged, locked and unlocked again. Good.)
EDIT: I remember. Yes, alzheimer didn't get me already!
- can't say about how skills influence gameplay since they haven't really showed it, but we know they do (character creation).
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How can we have a RPG without levels? Then its not a RPG its just a shooter. Your gear should have levels. The pursuit of better gear is a pillar of RPG.