Dev: “I would say that the game is pretty different to what we showed last year”

[Snowflakez]

You can have an overall level, but that should only be a suggestion, a guideline. It should not magically make them tougher with bigger health pools and more damage.

An overall level could, instead, be a combined figure that represents individual combat-centric skill levels combined (combat skills are all that matter in combat encounters for enemies).

Example: Corpo Guard has 6/10 Long Gun skill and wields a rifle, and his CONSTITUTION and INTELLIGENCE skills are both around that figure as well. Say V is level 5, maybe he could be shown as level 12 (random number, I have no idea how this would be compiled).

V could try to take him on, but he IS going to have a bit more health strictly because of his constitution stat (not an unreasonable "magic" amount), and he's a Corpo so he's going to have top-tier cyberware, both offensive and defensive. And he's skilled with his weapon so expect him to be relatively accurate, forcing the player to outwit, outmanuever, or simply out-DPS him. Furthermore, with good intelligence like that, maybe he can be better at something else - positioning (possibly too hard to code)?

Then, players can rely on their scanner to find out about other things, such as resistances, or how borged up they are, or what weapons/vehicles they have. The latter should not be factored into level, players should need to pay attention or their character can say something like "I can't break through his/her XYZ!" as a hint (maybe even an optional first-time tutorial pop-up).

These are some of the "differences" I hope to see. I desperately hope they haven't gone the Witcher 3 magic level route.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

that's a nice idea but using numbers sounds too complex to calculate for the game and understand for a player. I'd use words and classifications, even colour coded: green for "weak" (whoever has basic weapons and cyberware, like those scavangers); blue for enemies with better weapons and cyberware, grey then purple and so on until golden enemies who are at the top of big gangs or corporation.

I desperately hope they haven't gone the Witcher 3 magic level route.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

You can have an overall level, but ... It should not magically make them tougher with bigger health pools and more damage.

Character level and HP linked are the sort of abstraction that doesn't really work well when you see the results of your combat prowess close up. It works better in games that are more abstract on more wholesale level (i.e. isometric), where there is room to interpret rather than witnessing the rounds sinking in the face and eyes of the opponent with little effect.

I really, really hope some dev at some point (here that dev would obviously be CDPR) dares to design RPG combat around the characters ability to hit targets; where the purpose and focus of a combat situation isn't frantic flailing and spray'n pray with some bonkers slowtime mode to cheat the AI, but rather about slower and more tactical thinking, where a hit of a bullet always pays off big time (relative to the enemy's gear) and acceptance that the character does not always hit where you wanted to hit, or at all, especially characters with bad aim (because that's how you built him).

Because I do consider it to be tons more rewarding to hit less frequently (and based on character ability) but with a real punch every time a round lands on target, than hitting often (nearly always) with little to no effect.

 

[Snowflakez]

Character level and HP linked are the sort of abstraction that doesn't really work well when you see the results of your combat prowess close up. It works better in games that are more abstract on more wholesale level (i.e. isometric), where there is room to interpret rather than witnessing the rounds sinking in the face and eyes of the opponent with little effect.

I really, really hope some dev at some point (here that dev would obviously be CDPR) dares to design RPG combat around the characters ability to hit targets; where the purpose and focus of a combat situation isn't frantic flailing and spray'n pray with some bonkers slowtime mode to cheat the AI, but rather about slower and more tactical thinking, where a hit of a bullet always pays off big time (relative to the enemy's gear) and acceptance that the character does not always hit where you wanted to hit, or at all, especially characters with bad aim (because that's how you built him).

Because I do consider it to be tons more rewarding to hit less frequently (and based on character ability) but with a real punch every time a round lands on target, than hitting often (nearly always) with little to no effect.

While I don't necessarily want them to swap out their existing combat system for something turn-based, I've always been on board with this idea in theory or as an optional "RPG" mode. I've tried to suggest compromises in the past that blend character skill and player skill, if you recall - better or poorer weapon handling in general based on V's appropriate weapon skill. Slower/faster reload speed, smaller/greater bullet spread, more/less weapon sway, to name a few (there are more, such as recoil).

The reason for my suggestion is that I think it has a better chance of actually occurring, since it will have a minimal impact on the experience of those who want to go the full shooting route, while still providing a more satisfying sense of RPG progression to people like myself and (hopefully?) you.

I've been pretty consistent with asking for this, so I'm certain they've read the feedback. Now it's just a matter of finding out whether or not it fits their vision. For all I know, maybe it already exists, and the demo player just had high weapon stats specifically for the purpose of the demo? Regardless, this is a "difference to what they showed last year" that I want to see.

I don't think I've ever actually asked for your direct opinion, but what do you think of this idea? Would it be "good enough" for you to enjoy?

that's a nice idea but using numbers sounds too complex to calculate for the game and understand for a player. I'd use words and classifications, even colour coded: green for "weak" (whoever has basic weapons and cyberware, like those scavangers); blue for enemies with better weapons and cyberware, grey then purple and so on until golden enemies who are at the top of big gangs or corporation.

I was just trying to find an alternative way to make the level system work, since they seem a bit attached to that idea. A color system sounds fine, too, assuming it doesn't lead to "LEGENDARY Corporate Guards" and "EPIC Street Thug Bosses."

Honestly, players without a scanner don't really need to know the calculations that are happening behind the scenes, though. If they see a guy who is 6 levels higher than them, they know he will be tough. But you're right, it is more complex.

There are certainly very valid reasons not go to this route at all, though. But no harm in suggesting it.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

A color system sounds fine, too, assuming it doesn't lead to "LEGENDARY Corporate Guards" and "EPIC Street Thug Bosses."

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I don't think I've ever actually asked for your direct opinion, but what do you think of this idea? Would it be "good enough" for you to enjoy?

I've made a few off hand comments on it. I'm not diametrically opposed, but it would be the sort of "at least there's something" situation. And it, in my mind, should be the absolute minimum of what's there.

That sort of system could well be tied to difficulty settings where initial penalty of handling a weapon (not HP) is tied to "combat difficulty" making it so, that the harder you put it, the more skill/stat points you need to be able to reliably pull off succesful hits. And a general "gameplay difficulty" that'd make gear more expensive and rarer and skillcheck rolls harder from the outset (if there were rolls to begin with, or even a setting to switch for rolls according to the PnP rules).

I'd have that gladly, I suppose, but I would also still (as I've made my share of "compromise" suggestions) see to it that the smart guns and their interlinked cyberwares - on top of everything else - were more... "RPG combat mode" (which I've sketched in the past a few times) to the fullest possible within the confines of the design intent.

 

[GHOSTMD]

Well folks we ll see the changes soon enough aye?

Less then 4 weeks to e3, i kinda look foward to see a more
polished Version of the game, that is hopefully on a good way to be
released "SOON™". Besides that CDPR can show plenty of stuff we
didn t see yet, like the famous neony rainy nights aye? Or a deeper
look into sneaking / netrunning through a mission. What about getting
hammered in a bar then get in a fight >^^<.

Also when it comes down to the graphics and art style, i believe CDPR ll
nail it. I personally just hope the game ll scale well on lower hardware.
Without loosing to much of his visual charm. Ofc it all comes down how well
CDPR can optimize the redengine 4.

In addition to this, if graphic videlity is really the only thing that counts i would
have stopped playing games like JA2 (for example).

 

[Suhiira]

In the end I don't care if there is levels or not in the game as long as it doesn't affect their health to a point they don't dies from a direct headshot.

Based on the 2018 press demo they won't (for the most part ... unless you use a 'big' weapon), bullet sponges are "in".

 

[Snowflakez]

Based on the 2018 press demo they won't (for the most part ... unless you use a 'big' weapon), bullet sponges are "in".

Fair observation, but we also haven't seen many different weapons in action yet.

The gun the player was using honestly seemed like a bit of a peashooter until they grabbed the shotgun (Which handled exactly as I'd expect a shotgun to handle, and did exactly as much damage as I expected it to do).

For a gang of fully-borged-up Maelstromers verging on the edge of cyberpsychosis and even the scavengers (based on the E3 trailer, they seem to have some subdermal armoring), it's not totally unrealistic for them to take a few shots from an apparently low-power weapon to go down.

I'm more interested in seeing how higher-caliber handguns and headshots work. I don't think the player landed many (if any?) headshots with the auto-pistol. I plan to grab a single-shot weapon (I do not care for automatic weapons in this sort of game) and take my time, planning shots carefully.

 

[GHOSTMD]

Headshots you say?

Headshots are overrated

aka

Headshots are overrated 2

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

Based on the 2018 press demo they won't (for the most part ... unless you use a 'big' weapon), bullet sponges are "in".

EDIT: sorry, I misunderstood.
the demo didn't show any fight against enemies that are levels higher than V. What would have happened if V shot meredith and her guards? A bullet in their head would have been like a bullet in the scavengers' heads (as it should be) or are their heads harder than a low level head? (not talking about cyberware, simple levels)
In TW3 a level 40 wolf is a "blade sponge" for a level 25 geralt (and kills geralt with one bite), while a level 3 wolf is like butter, but is stronger than a level 1 geralt.

 

[Suhiira]

What would have happened if V shot meredith and her guards? A bullet in their head would have been like a bullet in the scavengers' heads (as it should be) or are their heads harder than a low level head? (not talking about cyberware, simple levels)

No idea. But at a guess ... GUESS ... she'd shrug it off and her bodyguards would make short work of you.

It's a game after all.

 

[GHOSTMD]

No idea. But at a guess ... GUESS ... she'd shrug it off and her bodyguards would make short work of you.

It's a game after all.

Yes, pretty much this when you try to grab the gun. Unless ofc you attack them right away.
You might shoot one down, but then shit ll go down, with you ending up in the gutter.

 

[Shavod]

No idea. But at a guess ... GUESS ... she'd shrug it off and her bodyguards would make short work of you.

It's a game after all.

Meredith is taken care of by Corporation if you screw her over, so I don't think she has plot armor at this point, so since the game gives you an option to attack her, I think it's possible you can take them down, but it will be very risky. Maybe then the guy she was keeping around as a suspect helps you out with reaching Maelstrom (since he is apparently in contact with them).

 

[GHOSTMD]

Meredith is taken care of by Corporation if you screw her over, so I don't think she has plot armor at this point, so since the game gives you an option to attack her, I think it's possible you can take them down, but it will be very risky. Maybe then the guy she was keeping around as a suspect helps you out with reaching Maelstrom (since he is apparently in contact with them).

The Demo / Mission we saw isn t necessary implemented like this. Remember the Witcher Demo?
Wasn t implemented like that either. I think in the final game we will not be able to screw her
over just like that. Also i believe it is Stouts "tanked" SUV that is hunting Male V in the Trailer.
Sooo yeah.... before she is going down, i assume she ll try to hand it to you.

 

[Shavod]

The Demo / Mission we saw isn t necessary implemented like this. Remember the Witcher Demo?
Wasn t implemented like that either. I think in the final game we will not be able to screw her
over just like that. Also i believe it is Stouts "tanked" SUV that is hunting Male V in the Trailer.
Sooo yeah.... before she is going down, i assume she ll try to hand it to you.

In The Witcher demo the Crookback Bog part was pretty much the same as in the final game, minus the beginning, which was done to make the whole segment shorter and give an excuse to show Novigrad, so while I think that placement of the Scavenger's quest and everything between that and the quest to retrieve the bot will definitely change, the quest with the bot itself should probably remain the same, with exception of things like loot, balance and so on.

 

[Snowflakez]

In The Witcher demo the Crookback Bog part was pretty much the same as in the final game, minus the beginning, which was done to make the whole segment shorter and give an excuse to show Novigrad, so while I think that placement of the Scavenger's quest and everything between that and the quest to retrieve the bot will definitely change, the quest with the bot itself should probably remain the same, with exception of things like loot, balance and so on.

I was going to say this, but reading Ghost's post kind of made me doubt myself. I was CERTAIN it was basically the same mission.

In fact, go play it again - you'll even notice that Geralt's voice acting is the same as it was during the early demos, its much smoother and "nicer" than his voice in the rest of the game.

 

[Shavod]

In fact, go play it again - you'll even notice that Geralt's voice acting is the same as it was during the early demos, its much smoother and "nicer" than his voice in the rest of the game.

I can only compare it with polish voice overs, but yes, in the polish version of the demo it also sounds like they used the exact same recordings, with exception of maybe some single lines, which were probably rerecorded. There were however some minor changes, like some lines not being present in the original demo (for example, when Geralt talks with the village elder, in the demo he gets to the point quickly, while in the final game he starts asking about small stuff first to break the ice), different camera angles being used in the dialogues and some improvements to the facial animations.

 

[GHOSTMD]

In The Witcher demo the Crookback Bog part was pretty much the same as in the final game, minus the beginning, which was done to make the whole segment shorter and give an excuse to show Novigrad, so while I think that placement of the Scavenger's quest and everything between that and the quest to retrieve the bot will definitely change, the quest with the bot itself should probably remain the same, with exception of things like loot, balance and so on.

You missunderstood me a little bit here, of course the mission from the demo will be in the final game
in quite the similar way we ve seen it. But as it was in W3 we might see Mr. Dex quite some time later
on in the game, instead of "instantly" after we smashed the scavs.

Didn t meant to say, that it ll be completely different from what we saw, sorry about being unclear in that
point .

 

[Shavod]

Didn t meant to say, that it ll be completely different from what we saw, sorry about being unclear in that
point .

No problem. And of course I agree, while both missions shown in the demo will appear in the game, they were definitely altered in some capacity to make the whole presentation more cohesive, so there will be differences with the way the events occur in the actual game.