How do we differentiate Meme from homebrew though. What you're describing sounds more like the latter but they can also be one in the same. meme decks are fine but their effectiveness really only lies in them being unexpected and that, to me, is how it should be.I dont think the devs consider Neutral as a faction, although it could work as you said, im not really familiarized with elf and onion soup (embarrasing for a meme lord, i know), i just thought that one gave you a random card. And on this effect, from the reworked 'Land of a thousand fables', i assumed it gave you a card of the faction you're using, not the one that the transformed special belongs to, i guess in a few weeks we'll find out...
Also, what if there isnt a single unit with the same provisions as the transformed special, what will happen? Transform into one with -1 provision? Random transformation? Or no transformation at all (most likely).
Very true, ive been an advocate for meme cards in Gwent since the betas, and ive been trying to fight this misconception that meme cards = bad. Also, the notion that there are only either competitive cards or meme cards with no inbetween, when in reality, most cards of the cardpool fall precisely on that gray area.
I can say with certainty there have been a lot of meme decks that were able to hold out on their own vs metadecks, maybe now not so much as before, which is a shame, but although harder, its still possible.
For example, im using 2 NG decks which most would consider 'memey' - a NG witchers deck and a slave infantry ronvid deck, and the truth is they can fight back against most tier 1 and 2 decks, and both are very favoured against any NG metadeck opponent.
It would be fun to first steal Blood Eagle or Amphibious Assault and then use Fables' Order on it just to really annoy the SK or NR opponent.
Looking at the card on paper I would guess it'll be more of a meme card but who really knows before the patch goes live. So many times cards have been called OP or dead or a meme only for them to turn out to be even the exact opposite when they've gone live.
(I agree that "meme" doesn't necessarily equal "bad", and that meme cards are needed to keep the game interesting and fun. No one's forced to play them if they don't want to.)
Looking at the card on paper I would guess it'll be more of a meme card but who really knows before the patch goes live. So many times cards have been called OP or dead or a meme only for them to turn out to be even the exact opposite when they've gone live.
(I agree that "meme" doesn't necessarily equal "bad", and that meme cards are needed to keep the game interesting and fun. No one's forced to play them if they don't want to.)
If I am the only one who go this doubt, then I am disappointed in all my ST comrades. Didn't anyone think 'How will Neophytes be a 6 for 4 if they transform another Elf? After one Neophyte transforms another to a Deadeye, there is no more transforming and it will be a 5 for 4 right?' I got it confirmed with the dev that it is not self-transforming (which would mean a potential 6 for 4), but only transform an allied elf which mean 6 for 4 is not possible unless you have any other 2 point elf and most of the elf bronzes are mediocre to pathetic and the only 2 point elf is the only faction specific card which is weaker and pathetic than a neutral card.
So, ST strategem will continue to remain as the worst and most pathetic strategem even when neutral strategems are considered. So, Munro buff is also junk and saber buff is also junk. Doesn't give me any hope on Oak or Cat Witcher. So, probably, ST will remain as a 'semi-decent' playable faction for several months as it is how CDPR wants to keep ST.
So, ST strategem will continue to remain as the worst and most pathetic strategem even when neutral strategems are considered. So, Munro buff is also junk and saber buff is also junk. Doesn't give me any hope on Oak or Cat Witcher. So, probably, ST will remain as a 'semi-decent' playable faction for several months as it is how CDPR wants to keep ST.
The ST stratagem is worth at the very least 4-5 points on 2 bodies with an archetypal tag (which can also trigger the Scenario) ... how is that pathetic ?
Also you seem to underestimate what Neophyte transforms into, it transforms into another (maybe even 2) Deadeye(s) for Vernosiel, not to mention that damaged elves make for great transformation fodder.
I don't really get this.
Lets assume I have 2 Neophytes with unused orders. I play Dol Blathanna Bomber and then I use 1 order to transform her into a Deadeye. The order from the 2nd Neophyte can't be used on the Neophyte that used his order ability?
Sometimes I just wish Vernosiel be deleted from the game even though I am a hardcore ST player. Anytime anything about Deadeye happens people automatically assume Vernoiel is there in all three rounds to make use of it. It is a high provision gold card which needs at least 4 deadeyes to break even (theoretically, assuming it doesn't hit armour or shield). Till 3 Deadeye, she is not just breaking even for a 12P card. One extra elf which is a good feeder for Blood Eagle is of no value, if we say 'but it puts two elfs on board'.
We can keep discussing if Neophytes are suddenly very good that it will even be added in a deck. But my main complaint is, in the developer stream Slama said it is now a 6 for 4, which it is not (saying that 6 for 4 is the current standard). Not on its own. On its own, it is a 5 for 4. For getting 6 for 4 (which doesn't even involve damage), adding more "if"s is just very weak. Two damage is so easy and if one Neophyte is killed, the other neophyte may never get a 2 body elf to use its ability on to make it even 5 for 4.
May be this will change in the future where there are more elfs with 1 power and other good deploy abilities are created. In the current situation, this change is not of any significance that it will be suddenly good and played; same for the strategem. I am fine with the change as I am anyhow not going to use this strategem or Neophytes as I think this is still junk. I am disappointed that every other starategems are made very good (and in cases like MO and SK, busted) and ST is left with a slightly-better-than-junk buff. And also that no one else questioned "how is it 6 for 4??
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To get +1 point from Neophyte you will use Bomber? Bomber is a junk unit with shields and armours running rampage every where. She can very well play for 2 points. Her only use is in Redeyah elf decks where you want to have 10+ 4P units and preferably elfs. So, with a help of an another junk 4P card which can play for a theoritical minimum of 2 points, you can get +1 points from another 4P card. How is that good?
We can add a lot of "ifs" and "buts".. but is it worth to get +1 points of a 4P card to reach the bare minimum of 6 points? If these conditions are added so that this card can get 7 or 8 for 4, then we can discuss about it.. but to get 6 for 4, having these conditions show how bad this card will be even after 8.5, IMHO.
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I have given Bomber as an example. There are other 2-3 power Elf bronze units.
Don't know if it is worth unless we get to test if it is worth. In theory it should give a lot of value to Vernossiel. It depends now if it is worth the setup for them to provide as much value as possible.
I guess that a +1 power buff to Neophyte's would have made it more playable.
I don't know why they keep insisting on these buffs that pretty much don't change anything.
Neophyte could easily be buffed to something like this:
Deploy: Boost an allied unit by 2. If it's an Elf, Spawn Scoia'tael Neophyte on the other allied row.
Still 6 for 4 so not too strong for a base card, still supports swarm and elves, but at least isn't terrible.
Neophyte could easily be buffed to something like this:
Deploy: Boost an allied unit by 2. If it's an Elf, Spawn Scoia'tael Neophyte on the other allied row.
Still 6 for 4 so not too strong for a base card, still supports swarm and elves, but at least isn't terrible.
I don't think there are any other 2 power Elfs. What is the point of transforming a 3 power elf to Deadeye? For the +2 from Varnoseil? Hmm.. in R3, we should commit a 4P bronze along with couple other 3 power bronzes to get +2 from Varnoseil. I think, it is in theory OK.. This is the only possible scenario this card is not out right horrible to play. We should see if this would be worth it. As far as I can think, this would be pretty horrible. Still doesn't make the strategem change as good as buffs to other strategems, even the neutral ones.
I agree.. it is made "more" playable. In playable index, this card is -100. After the change, it would be -50. Still pretty terrible and unplayable, but more playable than now.
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Come on, precision strike and deadeye ambush are always at top 5. They indeed are not the tier 0 deck, but, as i said, they are always at top 5.
And devs keep getting nerfed the tier 0 decks and giving small buffs (or even huge buffs) to SC . So how a faction with 2 leader being always in top 5 its not good?
Well, in fact, i pray for the devs gives the buf you whant in SC and turns that in tier 0, for, in the next patch, they nerfed in to oblivion, like they are doing now with lined pockets
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Yeah, from how they said in the video, I had assumed/hoped the description was a typo and that they were in fact self-transforming. Thinking about it, though, Is it really terrible? I mean, self-transforming would have made it delayed 6, but this way, although you lose straight points, you gain a little utility, since it gives you the ability to "save" two units from poison/bleeding, or even gain EXTRA points in some situations (SK or berserker ping damage, for example). All in all, it's a stratagem. I'm definitely going to give it a try, but I'm not expecting it to win games for me.
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This has nothing to do with the stratagem. Those decks that are "in top 5" don't use neophytes, I guarantee you that. Making the stratagem viable doesn't mean you are buffing the leader abilities.
[...] When Cat Witcher was introduced, I said it is one of the best cards (before it got nerfed). I said I reached pro with Dwarfs. I only point out the issue with the "supposed" buff to ST cards which will not have any effect. Do you think Munro's buff will make him really good? Do you think Neophytes buff is a good one and will make him playable? Or the strategem suddenly good? Again, my main complaint was that it was said to be a 6 for 4 buff, which it is not.
Same with Sabatours. When that witcher card was introduced I said it is junk and the buff also I said it was pointless and I was right. It didn't make the card playable. I disliked Saskia change. I still think it is mediocre and over priced and her abilities are all clunky. I only defend ST when they get meaningless useless buffs. If the "supposed" buff to Oak is good, I will say it is. If it is bad, I will say it is.
And I try to defend when people say some ST cards are too good. Like the witcher who kills the right most unit. It is a decent card. I said it is a decent card and not OP as people claimed it to be when it was introduced. I think my judgement was correct.
I am not saying ST is horrible and unplayable. There are some no units decks that gets played. The reason being, most ST units (espcially the Elves are really bad. If the scenario was for Dwarfs or Dryads, I guarantee you that you wouldn't see any elf deck getting played). Dwarfs are semi-decent. Nature Gift is semi-decent. No units decks are semi-decent.
Correction about your Tier 0 comment though. The devs butcher and kill Tier 0.5 decks and will make them unplayable only if it is not from SK.
Well in fact there are some deadeye ambushed Who use that stratagema.
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I dunno why devs delete the other part of my post, since its about the lined pockets nerfed and, of course, about update 8.5.
But i will say again.
I dont think there is a need to nerf cleaver and safecracker. Or nerf one, or nerf another.
As example cleaver. In others SY leaders he is a 11 provision card wich play for 5 and more 3 coins. Without the armor he can be easily killed in the next turn without create any cleavers muscle
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I'm going to disagree there. Most of the ST decks I encounter in pro are deadeye decks who use this stratagem. This buff gives them additional synergy with other golds. An extra body in ST is worth a lot
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Yes, it does. We all know the strength of deadeye decks doesn't come from tall play so why are we pretending the extra deadeye body won't pay off. This gives added points and synergy to several cards. Also Cat witcher without a doubt is one of the strongest cards from that expansion. SK bear witcher NG viper is probably at the top but Cat Witcher is definitely behind them in terms of point potential especially since it works in a long or short round and is autopilot.
Now is the stratagem buff the best on the list, no. But I also don't think the others should have received such huge buffs.
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Safecrakers needed to change. If they are intidimate engines, they shouldn't come at 8 strength. Either they should have lost their boost ability or the intimidate. In the current version, they are just too good, almost as good as Endrega Larva. Cleaver should probably be played only in Lined Pockets where he will immediately be able to spawn a muscle playing for 11 (with at least one more Crownsplitters). In this new setup, he will need more setup, probably a pocket of Crownsplitters so that he plays for 12 for 11 and having 4 more coins would help him to convert the coins better. He is a potential Intimidate 3 engine which should needs some setup and some protection to keep him alive. I am surprised that Drill didn't get any nerf. I would preferred a nerf to the drill rather than Cleaver. One of them needed to be changed.
One extra elf body is NOT worth a lot. There is only one card which gives +1 for an extra elf body; Isengrim. Rest of the cards don't care about elfs in the different row. I am really interested to know your opinion about the MO strategem change. If I have to guess, you are a passionate MO player. Do you think this potential Saber buff is anywhere close to the MO strategem buff?
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One extra DE has synergy with ONLY one high provision gold card. A lot of people keep saying "multiple gold cards". What other multiple gold cards synergize with DE? Isengrim? Isengrim doesn't care if it is Deadeye. Yeaven? Yeaven wouldn't care about the elf in the other row. If Vernosil is going to get (lets not forget, "potential" as it can hit armor/sheild) +2 this card is suddenly good? Adding +1 elf on the board in the other row doesn't give any benefit to Yeaven or even Oak. Only Vernosil get potential +2. If Vernosil has to be played on Melee, she is a 5 for 12 with +2 for each Deadeye. Meaning only if we have 4 Deadeye does she breakeven, provided she doesn't hit any armor or shield.
Before Eldain, to breakeven, the Scenario has to complete and full leader commitment needed to be done for her to be good. Otherwise, she would be played on ranged row for 11 for 12P so that Isengrim and Yeaven can get +2 out of her. That is three Gold cards we are talking about.
Cat Witcher *was* one of the strongest cards before the nerf. One Adrenaline hurts so much as all of the good Adrenaline cards in at Adrenaline 3 and makes it awkward. Bear Witcher is the strongest from the expansion, tied with Viper Mentor. Even NR's 5P engine is too good with Crystal Skull. Chimera is much stronger than Cat Witcher, easily playing for 11+ on deploy in Arachas Swarm deck. SY self poison didn't fare well. May be after this supposed buff, Cat Witcher will become good. But in its current state it is not nearly as good as all other factions except SY.
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My argument was not "Vernosiel is there -> each one is worth 2 more points", my argument was "Vernosiel is there -> each can be worth 2 more points". If I would argue Vernosiel will be there I would attribute points to them for the synergy.
What I stated was that it is a 5 for 4 (although they could be answered immediately) on multiple bodies, with several additional potential synergies.
Also Neophytes do not need to be an auto-include for the Stratagem to be good.
If Slama stated it to be a 6 for 4 then he is wrong, as pointed out before (also by you) you need a third elf to even be able to use the second order.
Also if anything there should propably be another card to benefit from Elven Deadeyes, not just Vernosiel (but that is just a side remark).
I think it's a far more interesting option than just increasing its own points. I'd rather potentially lose out on that one point than lose the potential tech option that is transforming another unit. This will let it disrupt status effects similar to Slave Infantry. Best case scenario it's a 8 point swarm Strategem (transforming 1 point units) which isn't bad at all.
It synergizes with elf swarm and harmony decks lacking in elves.
If it was simply a 6 point swarm strategem it would just be a powercrept Magic Lamp which isn't interesting CCG design at all. Every strategem should serve an unique purpose it's up to the player whether they want to use it or not.
I think some of the other ones have been overbuffed as CDPR tends to do but we'll see.
That's really a bit embarrassingI dont think the devs consider Neutral as a faction, although it could work as you said, im not really familiarized with elf and onion soup (embarrasing for a meme meme lord, i know
especially considering that it perfectly fits into almost every Skellige Alchemy Deck with Crowmother and Morkvarg/Ermion or a NG Spy as a destroy target and even ends up giving you the most reliable RnG targets (especially in Skellige's case where even the bronze options if used on two Crow tokens are pretty decent) compared to the other RnG Cards.We might want to wait what the remaining balance changes will bring Blue Mountain Elite and Elfen Wardancer are imho in a even more desperate need of a rework than the Neophyte (was at least somewhat useful compared to those two to quickly reach the 5 Elfs for Aelirenn if you couldn't afford the more expensive Half-Elf Hunter)
so maybe they turn them or some Elfs in the upcoming expansion in to low strength Units.
I've encountered plenty of dead eye decks in pro and I can say with decent certainty I have seen ZERO saber strat this season, nor do I play the saber in any of my deadeye decks. The veil+4 is generally a much better choice to protect your first engine, and the "extra body" or two don't make any kind of difference in Round 1, because chances are you aren't playing Isengrim there, and if you're planning to trigger Aelirenn you defnitely don't NEED these neophytes for that. Those two are the ONLY synergies that exist for elf bodies, and the same will also apply to Vernossiel, whom I've see thrown around here, in the next patch when the neophytes create 2 more deadeyes: You aren't playing melee Vernossiel in round 1.
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I'm not expecting much in the way of reworks for those two, though a tiny buff might be a possibility. Otherwise something like 1 body+ 5 damage for the Elite coulda been sweet, and the Wardancer could just get a 1hp boost.
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Not sure how I feel about the Damien point increase. I hope the devs realize by now that the reason control options had to be buffed is because of cards like this. With Imperial Formation you can already boost him out of removal range, now with the point increase and IF buff he will be quite tricky to deal with. Even when locked there's still the possibility of Letho: Kingslayer or a purify.
I don't think buffing these massively punishing cards is the right approach to giving NG options other than Ball. But we'll see.
I don't think buffing these massively punishing cards is the right approach to giving NG options other than Ball. But we'll see.